I've just received my bar, but these pics are not mine (previously posted on H-T).
EP -- still no e-mail at work ... so here goes.





This is available from SpeedWare Motorsports, and whoever's pictures these actually are said he was impressed at how it also stiffened the car.
sorry, some pics no longer available


[Modified by zygspeed, 5:51 PM 9/5/2001]

 

too cool..thanks again!!

 

It looks like it's a two seater now. Is that right? Can you sit in the back after this bar is installed? Looks like it would make the car much stiffer lateraly.

 

I don't get that at all. Why would you want to buy something that fancy which already kills use of the back seat, and provides exactly zero additional safety benefit. Great, so now you can use harnesses, but you have NO ROLLOVER PROTECTION. Heads are now rollbars. The damn thing is probably $200, when you can get a rollbar for not much more.

Warren

 

Yeah, getting a little tired w/backseat drivers!
Plus, my sholder belts will be secured where the rear passenger's belts would go!!!!

P.S. Waren, still upset about wrecking your car?
It's more than $200.
I try to drive within my limits, not like Ayrton Senna.
(hrmmm ... maybe I should have said ... Michael Schumacher)


[Modified by zygspeed, 4:38 PM 9/4/2001]

 

yeah its not a safety item..but it adds chassis stiffness..and thats a big plus..the harness guide bar is for front end collisions..the belts would normally pull down and possibly break the seat and your back..this helps them from doing that..although a cage would be better..

 

Ed, this is the same bar I was going to get after seeing in back when. Right, it's no roll bar, but I was going to get it for the use of the camera mount and some added stiffening.

Thanks,
Victor Perri II

 

No, I'm not. I'll be the first to admit I fucked up. I drove it beyond my limits, and worst of all, did it on the street on unfamiliar twisty bits on cold r-compound tires with slightly damp roads (and exactly zero runoff). Not a good combo.

Back to the topic. My point is what is the value of this thing? Side to side bracing gives very minimal improvement. It's only when you start to tie the front to the back (along with the sides) that you really noticably gain rigidity. If it costs more than $200, then you might as well get a rollbar which provides you with a safe harness mounting point for proper shoulder belts (not the Y type which no sanctioning body will ever approve), rollover protection, and probably better chassis rigidity anyways. Realistically, who the hell wants to ride in the back seat of a Teg anyways?

Warren

 

HARNESS BAR + ROLLOVER = DEAD DRIVER

This picture was taking at Willow Springs last month by Andrew. If this Mustang had a Harness Bar, both Driver & Instuctor would have died. BTW, this was a Coupe, not a Convertible. Harness Bars are very dangerous. Get a Rollbar instead!!!








[Modified by RMR, 8:22 AM 9/5/2001]

 

Here's another from earlier this summer.

Warren

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewP...p=50807986&f=0

edit: stupid Photopoint


[Modified by Warren, 2:30 PM 9/4/2001]

 

Here's another rollover from Streets of Willow Springs last month. Not as bad as the Mustang, but still a harness bar would have caused severe injuries, if not dead driver.




[Modified by RMR, 11:01 PM 9/4/2001]

 

Can't see the image.

Warren

 

I would want something like this for my car. I don't do any road racing and currently only some spirited driving. The use of this plus a harness would hold me in the seat better. I also still need the back seat on occasion for my children and according to Speedware (which is conveniently close by), the cross bar is pretty easy to remove to allow access to the rear seats. Plus it's cheaper.

James

 

Still, if you flip your car over on the street, you get a broken neck.. If you need a harness for spirited driving on the street, you are going too fast..

Get a rollbar! The ONLY thing I would use that contraption for is autox..

 

"Realistically, who the hell wants to ride in the back seat of a Teg anyways?"

My 5 and 9 year old children when I pick them up from school... not everyone uses their R on the track all of the time...

 

Those pictures above happened on the track, but could easily happen on the street too. You will be better off with the stock seat belts. Otherwise, get a Rollbar.

Autopower makes one that has a removable cross brace (takes only minutes), so you can still use the back seats. Just need to pad the bar properly, if you will have passengers in the rear. Installation can be done with full interior. The rear bars go through the rear speakers.

http://www.ioportracing.com/rollbar.htm


[Modified by RMR, 8:32 AM 9/5/2001]

 

I want to thank everyone for opening my eyes. I got an estimate from Speedware Motorsports on a harness bar and was going to have it installed next week. After realizing the dangers, forget about it. I'll either get a rollbar, or nothing at all.

 

yes i think both zyggy and i both understand the dangers of roll over..this bar is not a replacement for a roll bar..its just another chassis stabilizer..with the added bonus of having your harnesses properly mounted...

 

That's part of my point though. A properly mounted harness means that it will not cause more bodily damage in a bad accident. First, let's make sure we're talking 5 and 6 points only. 4 point = garbage (wanna see what happens when your stomach gets jammed into your neck?). Will a harness tied to a harness bar hold up in a bad frontal? Side impact? What happens when that b-pillar gets all bent out of shape? In the stock configuration, if the b-pillar gets bent, the seatbelt boltdown point stays secure. Will the bar hold up in a minor side impact?

I'm really glad fso_BamBam isn't going w/ this harness bar. Stock or rollbar. Harness bars are just not wise. Auto-x... well... in a low speed environment, sure it's fine, but what happens when you're at an auto-x where you're going 90 mph? Not uncommon for each region to have a few fast events a year. There have been a fair number of rollovers this year at auto-x's too. Mostly VW's. Once you get on the bumpstops, it's not too far before you're going 2 wheeling.

As for chassis stiffening. It's non-solid joints in a single plane, with a curved bar. No triangulation either. Very little chassis stiffening at best. You're trying to brace against the B-pillar on a hatchback...

Warren

 

PLease explain why.

 

a harness bar is an integral part of a roll over cage..actually when getting my cage built they took measurements for the harness bar to make sure it was the correct hieght for me and my seat..the best place to be in an accident is in your seat..anyting that can help to keep you there is a plus..nothing is 100% just ask dale earndhart (sp?) ..i just think you are just misunderstanding the purpose of it....its just to help keeping the belts from unloading on your seat..i dont see how you could say this is a bad thing..

 

Thanks for the comments.
Didn't mean to slight you Warren, but I've wanted to say that for quite a while (everytime the incidents w/flipped cars came up).
See you guys later.

P.S. My CRX has a 4 pt. bar, and the weld-in cage is waiting. ed pipala

 

ok should a cage be bolted or welded in?

 

Bolt in is fine, just make sure it has nice big plates on it.. Only weld if you are SURE the rollbar is gonna stay in the car, even when you sell it...

About staying in your seat, a 3 pt will do that, but it will let your body adorb more impact by letting it move around.. If your straped in tight, if you flip, your HEAD is the rollbar, if you get hit in the side, your Body is taking the damage as much as the door. With a stock 3pt, your body will give more.. I wouldn't give a **** if i was crushed under the steering wheel, better then snaping my neck off..

Also, you said Dale Earnhardt.. What about the other wrecks that come from a wiplash action..? Kyle Petty and Kenny Irwin did the same thing least year, their heads wiped forward so hard that their spine riped from the base of the skull.. Your telling me your gonna wear a helment support everytime you ride on the street?

 

He guys, performance driving has a potential for disaster.
I've been at Summit Point a few years ago when a formula ford driver did not survive his accident.
As far as you guys saying that the use of a harness bar will NECESSARILY result in death, ... I don't see the proof.
Further, in the pictures I'd posted above, the belts were secured improperly ...
(they should have been attached to the rear passenger seat bottom belt mounting points).
Lastly, that red car (above), might even have benefitted from some (admittedly minimal) structural bracing which MAY have been supplied by the Speedware harbess GUIDE bar.
Lastly, drive with survival in mind. ed