is the s2000 easy to handle just like my itr
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
is the s2000 easy to handle just like my itr
hi,
im thinking of getting a new s2000.Im worried that i cannot handle it.Maybe i cant corner just like my R.Maybe i had just seen too many accisents on rwd cars?Please clear my doubts???
im thinking of getting a new s2000.Im worried that i cannot handle it.Maybe i cant corner just like my R.Maybe i had just seen too many accisents on rwd cars?Please clear my doubts???
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
From: Anywhere, Ca, United States
Re: is the s2000 easy to handle just like my itr (Vtr)
Both these cars have different handleing dynamics and are completely different from each other. It takes more skill to effectively take advantage with an S2000.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Saint Charles, IL, USA
Re: is the s2000 easy to handle just like my itr (Vtr)
The S2000 doesn't tell you very much when it's near it's limit. So, you need to have some experience in getting the car there and actually exceeding it to develop a proper feel for the car IMHO. I broke my rear end loose twice before I got a front sway bar to reduce the over-steer. The ITR tells you loudly and clearly when it's at limit. That's very comforting.
Once past the limit, the S2000 is a lot harder to recapture than the ITR.
I'm not being self-serving at all when I say that the best place to learn the S2000 is clearly on the track at one of the many HPDE days that are available at tracks around the country.
The street is not where you want to test this car's limits. Pick a track with lots of run-out room on the curves and test it's limits there.
Once past the limit, the S2000 is a lot harder to recapture than the ITR.
I'm not being self-serving at all when I say that the best place to learn the S2000 is clearly on the track at one of the many HPDE days that are available at tracks around the country.
The street is not where you want to test this car's limits. Pick a track with lots of run-out room on the curves and test it's limits there.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Saint Charles, IL, USA
Re: (George Knighton)
[QUOTE=George Knighton]
There's something I'm curious about that I'd like to try one day, but I don't know anyone well enough w/an S2000. With the ITR, it's frequently an effective means of getting around the track quickly to deliberately go into a turn faster than you know the car can come out of it, and at the apex you do a violent quick, very, very brief lift that rotates the car instantly the direction the wheel is turned. Then you floor it almost instantly and you've left some people behind you.
Don't do this in an S2000 unless you really need to see what's behind you several quick times without a mirror. Never lift in a curve with an S2000.
There's something I'm curious about that I'd like to try one day, but I don't know anyone well enough w/an S2000. With the ITR, it's frequently an effective means of getting around the track quickly to deliberately go into a turn faster than you know the car can come out of it, and at the apex you do a violent quick, very, very brief lift that rotates the car instantly the direction the wheel is turned. Then you floor it almost instantly and you've left some people behind you.
Don't do this in an S2000 unless you really need to see what's behind you several quick times without a mirror. Never lift in a curve with an S2000.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Lord Of the Rings Country, New Zealand
Re: (George Knighton)
Well, hopefully I can add some of my experiences here. I just returned from tracking my S2K at Manfeild AutoCourse, which is a local track here in New Zealand. There was a filming session for a local video(http://www.finaldrivevideo.com) where they compared seven cars - JDM DC5-R, JDM DC2-R (98Spec), S2000, EK9, S14, S15, R34GTR.
The track layout - http://www.manfeild.co.nz/images/track.jpg
After a few warm-up laps, I found that the best way to tackle the sharper sweepers/hairpins (marked Coca Cola, and Husqvarna on the map) and to maintain a desirable exit speed was to come in at a faster entry speed, brake late, hit the apex from a wide angle, downshift (3-2), then punch it coming out of the corner. The downside to this is that the s2k can be quite unpredictable about its limits, and performing a manuevuer (sp) like this usually makes the car quite tail whippy, even with the brand new S-02's I had fitted. Yes, it is a difficult car to correct once it is pushed past its limit. The other downside is that I found myself slipping around in the leather seats, scrambling for the gearstick a couple of times - maybe it's just me though, since I haven't heard fellow S2K owners complain too much about it? Or maybe it was the dealer who's selling my S2K on behalf armourguarding my interior
!
However, the s2k is just one of those cars you need to adjust your driving style to suit, not the other way round. Especially if you've only ever tracked FF cars in the past. IMO, it behaves totally different, and to put it in comparison, the JDM DC5-R was easy to push to its absolute limit, and you could just point the wheel and throttle it out of every corner without fear of understeer.
on JDM DC5-R LSD.
The track layout - http://www.manfeild.co.nz/images/track.jpg
After a few warm-up laps, I found that the best way to tackle the sharper sweepers/hairpins (marked Coca Cola, and Husqvarna on the map) and to maintain a desirable exit speed was to come in at a faster entry speed, brake late, hit the apex from a wide angle, downshift (3-2), then punch it coming out of the corner. The downside to this is that the s2k can be quite unpredictable about its limits, and performing a manuevuer (sp) like this usually makes the car quite tail whippy, even with the brand new S-02's I had fitted. Yes, it is a difficult car to correct once it is pushed past its limit. The other downside is that I found myself slipping around in the leather seats, scrambling for the gearstick a couple of times - maybe it's just me though, since I haven't heard fellow S2K owners complain too much about it? Or maybe it was the dealer who's selling my S2K on behalf armourguarding my interior
!However, the s2k is just one of those cars you need to adjust your driving style to suit, not the other way round. Especially if you've only ever tracked FF cars in the past. IMO, it behaves totally different, and to put it in comparison, the JDM DC5-R was easy to push to its absolute limit, and you could just point the wheel and throttle it out of every corner without fear of understeer.
on JDM DC5-R LSD.
shit post warrior
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,141
Likes: 5
From: Socal, CA
Re: (hybr1do)
I don't know about some of the other S2K owners who replied but my '02 has been fairly predictable at or near the limit. The last HPDE I participated in with worn S-02's the car handled great. The S2K's oversteer characteristic allowed me to simply point and go. Then again I didn't try to drive at the limit on my first time tracking the car.
What I do love about my S2K is the brakes and balance. That's something the ITR definitely doesn't have in stock form. I couldn't believe how deep I could brake into turns and the speed you can safely carry into them and still turn. I kind of built up my confidence after each lap in doing this. I can't tell you how many cars that I caught entering a turn that were faster in the straights than my S2K.
The only time I felt their was a problem was when the tires were either cold or the tires/track became hot and greasy. During these occasions and the rear tires would break loose I would simply lift and the car would straighten up. A friend told me that the S2K will spin if countersteered and throttled too aggressively.
I replaced my OEM S-02's with the Kumho Ecsta MX and they seem to have more grip. The rear oversteers less going around turns with the same amount of grip from the fronts. I want to test at the track to make sure though.
Modified by ITRbroham at 7:48 AM 10/23/2003
Modified by ITRbroham at 8:07 AM 10/23/2003
What I do love about my S2K is the brakes and balance. That's something the ITR definitely doesn't have in stock form. I couldn't believe how deep I could brake into turns and the speed you can safely carry into them and still turn. I kind of built up my confidence after each lap in doing this. I can't tell you how many cars that I caught entering a turn that were faster in the straights than my S2K.
The only time I felt their was a problem was when the tires were either cold or the tires/track became hot and greasy. During these occasions and the rear tires would break loose I would simply lift and the car would straighten up. A friend told me that the S2K will spin if countersteered and throttled too aggressively.
I replaced my OEM S-02's with the Kumho Ecsta MX and they seem to have more grip. The rear oversteers less going around turns with the same amount of grip from the fronts. I want to test at the track to make sure though.
Modified by ITRbroham at 7:48 AM 10/23/2003
Modified by ITRbroham at 8:07 AM 10/23/2003
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
From: Yokosuka, Japan
throttle is a big difference. in the itr you just floor the gas when coming out of a turn, with the s2k you have to be sure to not overthrottle or you'll spin out. another thing is downshifting, if you downshift in the s2k w/o heel-toeing and the revs are pretty high you can cause the car to spin out. once i was gunning it and shifting from 3rd to 4th, but ended up putting it in 2nd as soon as i started to let off the clutch i could feel the rear end start to kick out. i think you just have to be a better driver to drive an s2k fast than a ITR fast.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's something I'm curious about that I'd like to try one day, but I don't know anyone well enough w/an S2000. With the ITR, it's frequently an effective means of getting around the track quickly to deliberately go into a turn faster than you know the car can come out of it, and at the apex you do a violent quick, very, very brief lift that rotates the car instantly the direction the wheel is turned. Then you floor it almost instantly and you've left some people behind you.
I'd really like to know how the S2000 handles that kind of manoeuvre. If anyone knows, I'd be enteratained to hear about it.
And why are there absolutely zero S2000 in the East Coast Honda Challenge?</TD></TR></TABLE>
How are your exit speeds using that maneuver as opposed to without it?
I think the problem is, with the S2000 you don't really have the "luxury" of being able to just step on it like the ITR if it begins to over-rotate. If you do happen to try this maneuver, make sure the lift is very minute as the backend tends to step out quickly.
Also, I know of one S2000 entering the ECHC: http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/...55970
"Our next race is the Honda Challenge at Summit Point on 11/1-2. We are hoping to show the front wheel drive hybrids how it is done.
"
There's something I'm curious about that I'd like to try one day, but I don't know anyone well enough w/an S2000. With the ITR, it's frequently an effective means of getting around the track quickly to deliberately go into a turn faster than you know the car can come out of it, and at the apex you do a violent quick, very, very brief lift that rotates the car instantly the direction the wheel is turned. Then you floor it almost instantly and you've left some people behind you.
I'd really like to know how the S2000 handles that kind of manoeuvre. If anyone knows, I'd be enteratained to hear about it.
And why are there absolutely zero S2000 in the East Coast Honda Challenge?</TD></TR></TABLE>
How are your exit speeds using that maneuver as opposed to without it?
I think the problem is, with the S2000 you don't really have the "luxury" of being able to just step on it like the ITR if it begins to over-rotate. If you do happen to try this maneuver, make sure the lift is very minute as the backend tends to step out quickly.
Also, I know of one S2000 entering the ECHC: http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/...55970
"Our next race is the Honda Challenge at Summit Point on 11/1-2. We are hoping to show the front wheel drive hybrids how it is done.
"
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Lord Of the Rings Country, New Zealand
Re: (ITRbroham)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I do love about my S2K is the brakes and balance. That's something the ITR definitely doesn't have in stock form. I couldn't believe how deep I could brake into turns and the speed you can safely carry into them and still turn. I kind of built up my confidence after each lap in doing this. I can't tell you how many cars that I caught entering a turn that were faster in the straights than my S2K.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Totally agree here. I found myself being able to brake much deeper into corners than your usual FR car, and in instances where you'd probably start sliding into a brake "drift", the car's 50/50 weight balance really shone through. However, yes, be careful about downshifting whilst cornering, make sure you're heel-toeing or rev-matching properly, otherwise you might find yourself shift locking and the tail popping out = Hello gravel pit! 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Totally agree here. I found myself being able to brake much deeper into corners than your usual FR car, and in instances where you'd probably start sliding into a brake "drift", the car's 50/50 weight balance really shone through.
However, yes, be careful about downshifting whilst cornering, make sure you're heel-toeing or rev-matching properly, otherwise you might find yourself shift locking and the tail popping out = Hello gravel pit!
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,278
Likes: 0
From: Laguna
Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
With the ITR, if you overcook a high speed corner, you catch yourself thinking, "OK, I can do this. Don't lift. Don't lift. Don't lift." It won't be quite that easy w/the S2000.
It's also neat to be able to <u>pull</u> yourself out of a hard corner w/the ITR by just flooring it and letting the FWD and LSD do the work for you. It won't be quite that easy w/the S2000.
There's something I'm curious about that I'd like to try one day, but I don't know anyone well enough w/an S2000. With the ITR, it's frequently an effective means of getting around the track quickly to deliberately go into a turn faster than you know the car can come out of it, and at the apex you do a violent quick, very, very brief lift that rotates the car instantly the direction the wheel is turned. Then you floor it almost instantly and you've left some people behind you.
I'd really like to know how the S2000 handles that kind of manoeuvre. If anyone knows, I'd be enteratained to hear about it.
And why are there absolutely zero S2000 in the East Coast Honda Challenge?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That may or may not be a good idea but there are so many variables involved that you can't get a good answer. Such variables are tire choice (plays big role on s2k) and suspension mods. RWD is a little more complicated as now you have rear wheels to deliver power and front wheels to brake and turn, this allows you to maximize the limits by alleviating the load put on the front wheels of a FWD car. I'd like to say that where you were able to dive bomb into a turn with FWD and power out, you can't do the same on a RWD car. The setup before the turn is VERY important now and will dictate your exit speed. Steering input and throttle input are more important as well, I'd like to say the learning curve is steeper on RWD.
One thing to easily do on the s2k is overheat the rear tires. A friend had offerred me this theory that the reason it's easy to overcook the rear tires isn't b/c the car lacks torque (finding yourself on the throttle a lot), or the car needs bigger rear tires. His idea was due to the seating position. Since the seating position on the s2k is far back, near the rear axles, it's easy to late apex corners when you're not suppose to, basically going in too deep due to the vantage point of the driver and overheating the tires by trying to make up ground and having a terrible exit speed. The NSX's are popular for drivers thinking they understeer, possibly b/c the seating position is near the front axles and you find yourself early apex'ing and cooking the fronts. It's hard to say if his theory is correct. I have to say that it holds validity in several cars that fit those guidelines of seating position.
With the ITR, if you overcook a high speed corner, you catch yourself thinking, "OK, I can do this. Don't lift. Don't lift. Don't lift." It won't be quite that easy w/the S2000.
It's also neat to be able to <u>pull</u> yourself out of a hard corner w/the ITR by just flooring it and letting the FWD and LSD do the work for you. It won't be quite that easy w/the S2000.
There's something I'm curious about that I'd like to try one day, but I don't know anyone well enough w/an S2000. With the ITR, it's frequently an effective means of getting around the track quickly to deliberately go into a turn faster than you know the car can come out of it, and at the apex you do a violent quick, very, very brief lift that rotates the car instantly the direction the wheel is turned. Then you floor it almost instantly and you've left some people behind you.
I'd really like to know how the S2000 handles that kind of manoeuvre. If anyone knows, I'd be enteratained to hear about it.
And why are there absolutely zero S2000 in the East Coast Honda Challenge?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That may or may not be a good idea but there are so many variables involved that you can't get a good answer. Such variables are tire choice (plays big role on s2k) and suspension mods. RWD is a little more complicated as now you have rear wheels to deliver power and front wheels to brake and turn, this allows you to maximize the limits by alleviating the load put on the front wheels of a FWD car. I'd like to say that where you were able to dive bomb into a turn with FWD and power out, you can't do the same on a RWD car. The setup before the turn is VERY important now and will dictate your exit speed. Steering input and throttle input are more important as well, I'd like to say the learning curve is steeper on RWD.
One thing to easily do on the s2k is overheat the rear tires. A friend had offerred me this theory that the reason it's easy to overcook the rear tires isn't b/c the car lacks torque (finding yourself on the throttle a lot), or the car needs bigger rear tires. His idea was due to the seating position. Since the seating position on the s2k is far back, near the rear axles, it's easy to late apex corners when you're not suppose to, basically going in too deep due to the vantage point of the driver and overheating the tires by trying to make up ground and having a terrible exit speed. The NSX's are popular for drivers thinking they understeer, possibly b/c the seating position is near the front axles and you find yourself early apex'ing and cooking the fronts. It's hard to say if his theory is correct. I have to say that it holds validity in several cars that fit those guidelines of seating position.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Re: (hybr1do)
thanks for your sweet reply.I had previously crashed 2 dc2r and now driving a dc5r.Thinking of getting a s2k for my track days but now it seems that if im lack of the skill than maybe i should stick to my dc5R.
shit post warrior
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,141
Likes: 5
From: Socal, CA
Re: (Vtr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vtr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for your sweet reply.I had previously crashed 2 dc2r and now driving a dc5r.Thinking of getting a s2k for my track days but now it seems that if im lack of the skill than maybe i should stick to my dc5R.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Damn, are you serious?
Damn, are you serious?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,384
Likes: 0
From: Orange County, CA
Re: (Vtr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vtr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for your sweet reply.I had previously crashed 2 dc2r and now driving a dc5r.Thinking of getting a s2k for my track days but now it seems that if im lack of the skill than maybe i should stick to my dc5R.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't be afraid, you can learn.
Don't be afraid, you can learn.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,475
Likes: 1
From: The bank Ownz my R
Re: (JMS JT)
Keep the ITR - I want mine back.
I shouldn't say that I guess. Be prepared for a maybe lengthy learning curve, it's NOT anywhere as easy as the ITR was to drive. The ITR is easy to drive, and then you can spend lots of time and learn to REALLY drive the ITR. S2K isn't that easy right out of the box. I'm very nervous in the S2K where as I had a lot more confidence in the R. I still drive the S2K like a granny compared to the way I used to tear corners up in the R.
I've seen a lot of people learn the hard way over at s2ki.com. I can't tell you how many crashed posts I see. Put it this way. You know how often an R is posted as stolen on this board (way too frequently). That's how many times I see an "I crashed my S2K" post on s2ki.com.
I shouldn't say that I guess. Be prepared for a maybe lengthy learning curve, it's NOT anywhere as easy as the ITR was to drive. The ITR is easy to drive, and then you can spend lots of time and learn to REALLY drive the ITR. S2K isn't that easy right out of the box. I'm very nervous in the S2K where as I had a lot more confidence in the R. I still drive the S2K like a granny compared to the way I used to tear corners up in the R.
I've seen a lot of people learn the hard way over at s2ki.com. I can't tell you how many crashed posts I see. Put it this way. You know how often an R is posted as stolen on this board (way too frequently). That's how many times I see an "I crashed my S2K" post on s2ki.com.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,064
Likes: 0
From: Triangle, NC, USA
Re: (00-ITR-373)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00-ITR-373 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Keep the ITR - I want mine back.
I shouldn't say that I guess. Be prepared for a maybe lengthy learning curve, it's NOT anywhere as easy as the ITR was to drive. The ITR is easy to drive, and then you can spend lots of time and learn to REALLY drive the ITR. S2K isn't that easy right out of the box. I'm very nervous in the S2K where as I had a lot more confidence in the R. I still drive the S2K like a granny compared to the way I used to tear corners up in the R.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just get on track and learn to drive it Troy
I shouldn't say that I guess. Be prepared for a maybe lengthy learning curve, it's NOT anywhere as easy as the ITR was to drive. The ITR is easy to drive, and then you can spend lots of time and learn to REALLY drive the ITR. S2K isn't that easy right out of the box. I'm very nervous in the S2K where as I had a lot more confidence in the R. I still drive the S2K like a granny compared to the way I used to tear corners up in the R.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just get on track and learn to drive it Troy
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,475
Likes: 1
From: The bank Ownz my R
Re: (RStoR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RStoR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just get on track and learn to drive it Troy </TD></TR></TABLE>
Run the gap for me and make sure it's S2K safe!! Thanks.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Run the gap for me and make sure it's S2K safe!! Thanks.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Glasgow, UK
Re: (Vtr)
I love the way my S drives, but it took me a lot of time on the track to learn the one big lesson about this car, it will do exactly what you tell it to do. If tell it to oversteer it will, same with understeer (esp. exiting out of hairpins). It is so neutral.
Most other cars I have driven will tend to a type of behaviour, e.g. as some people have said above "Plant the throttle, let the LSD sort it out"
The problem is until you understand what you are doing and know what you are telling the car you may spend a lot of time pointing the wrong way back down the road.
PS. Never never never lift in an S
Most other cars I have driven will tend to a type of behaviour, e.g. as some people have said above "Plant the throttle, let the LSD sort it out"
The problem is until you understand what you are doing and know what you are telling the car you may spend a lot of time pointing the wrong way back down the road.
PS. Never never never lift in an S
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Shark Tank
Acura Integra Type-R
39
Dec 30, 2002 08:48 AM
usdm NA 429
Acura Integra Type-R
33
Mar 17, 2002 04:16 PM
