auto vs stick
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From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
auto vs stick
I was debating with my boyfriend yesterday about whether or not an automatic transmission would really slow down a Prelude. He was swearing up and down that the <u>only</u> difference it makes is just that with a standard you can red line it. And that was <u>it.</u>
Opinions?
He drives an automatic '03 Pontiac Grand Am GT (they don't make it with a manual transmission, or else he would've gotten it) and he doesn't know a whole lot about Hondas, would it make a difference in the make of the car?
Modified by mistygirlkg at 7:25 PM 10/21/2003
Opinions?
He drives an automatic '03 Pontiac Grand Am GT (they don't make it with a manual transmission, or else he would've gotten it) and he doesn't know a whole lot about Hondas, would it make a difference in the make of the car?
Modified by mistygirlkg at 7:25 PM 10/21/2003
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From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Re: auto vs stick (mistygirlkg)
uh...........I hope your boyfriend is joking about auto and 5 speed being the same.
5 speed is a lot better and faster too, if u know how to drive.
You should get rid of your boyfriend
5 speed is a lot better and faster too, if u know how to drive.
You should get rid of your boyfriend
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: auto vs stick (mistygirlkg)
he is absolutely
WRONG.
there's almost a 100% difference (15% vs 25-30%) in how much power is lost via the drivetrain in a shitshift automatic. 5spd ludes will dyno 165 hp to the wheels stock, i doubt that an auto will put down anything above 145, stock. not only is there more drivetrain loss, but the gearing is much worse (5 speeds vs. 4 speeds)
on top of that the auto will probably break and will cost 5,000 to fix.
here's the bottom line: anyone here on this board for more than a week, who can physically drive a 5spd, and is in the market for a prelude has ZERO REASON to buy an automatic. personally i don't care if you're getting the SS lude for $2000 off blue book, or if you're paying bluebook retail for the 5 spd, the auto is simply not worth it. those of us who have autos didn't realize that honda designed such a terrible transmission, so there's not much they can do, and almost every person with an SS tranny wishes they had a 5spd. if you want to drive an automatic, the prelude isn't the car to do it in.
hehe so link this post to your bf, so he can readup and you can say i told you so
WRONG.
there's almost a 100% difference (15% vs 25-30%) in how much power is lost via the drivetrain in a shitshift automatic. 5spd ludes will dyno 165 hp to the wheels stock, i doubt that an auto will put down anything above 145, stock. not only is there more drivetrain loss, but the gearing is much worse (5 speeds vs. 4 speeds)
on top of that the auto will probably break and will cost 5,000 to fix.
here's the bottom line: anyone here on this board for more than a week, who can physically drive a 5spd, and is in the market for a prelude has ZERO REASON to buy an automatic. personally i don't care if you're getting the SS lude for $2000 off blue book, or if you're paying bluebook retail for the 5 spd, the auto is simply not worth it. those of us who have autos didn't realize that honda designed such a terrible transmission, so there's not much they can do, and almost every person with an SS tranny wishes they had a 5spd. if you want to drive an automatic, the prelude isn't the car to do it in.
hehe so link this post to your bf, so he can readup and you can say i told you so
Thread Starter
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From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: auto vs stick (PAID-$$$)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PAID-$$$ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should get rid of your boyfriend </TD></TR></TABLE>
He's good for other things too 
</TD></TR></TABLE> He's good for other things too
Thread Starter
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From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: auto vs stick (bad-monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he is absolutely
WRONG.
there's almost a 100% difference (15% vs 25-30%) in how much power is lost via the drivetrain in a shitshift automatic. 5spd ludes will dyno 165 hp to the wheels stock, i doubt that an auto will put down anything above 145, stock. not only is there more drivetrain loss, but the gearing is much worse (5 speeds vs. 4 speeds)</TD></TR></TABLE>
OK, I don't know too much about car lingo (for now anyway) so let me make sure I'm understanding you right...
So you're basically just saying that the 5 speeds will go 165+ hp but the autos won't go above 145?
Why is there such a big difference in the max speed?
Would the fact that he has only driven Pontiacs his entire life make him think so differently?
WRONG.
there's almost a 100% difference (15% vs 25-30%) in how much power is lost via the drivetrain in a shitshift automatic. 5spd ludes will dyno 165 hp to the wheels stock, i doubt that an auto will put down anything above 145, stock. not only is there more drivetrain loss, but the gearing is much worse (5 speeds vs. 4 speeds)</TD></TR></TABLE>
OK, I don't know too much about car lingo (for now anyway) so let me make sure I'm understanding you right...
So you're basically just saying that the 5 speeds will go 165+ hp but the autos won't go above 145?
Why is there such a big difference in the max speed?
Would the fact that he has only driven Pontiacs his entire life make him think so differently?
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Atlanta, ga, usa
u can redline every gear with ss, the only downside-you have no fifth gear and the gear ratios, most people have not had one prob with their tranny. And I have pegged 150 in my ss, top speed is no difference, it just takes longer.
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: auto vs stick (mistygirlkg)
hmm. well "dyno-ing" is when you put a car on a dyno-jet, which is a diagnostic tool which can tell you (among many other things) how much horsepower is being transferred from the engine to the wheels. when a 5th gen 5spd prelude gets on the dyno, and they test to see how much horsepower its producing at the wheels it's different than when a 5th gen auto is on the dyno. there's a 20-25 hp difference.
the question is, why? well, the H22 engine is rated at 190 bhp, which is short for 190 brake horsepower. this is how much HP the engine, by itself and unhooked to the transmission, can make. now, when you attach a transmission to the engine, which is very complicated has a lot of moving parts, you're going to experience some inefficiencies and lose some energy. the 5spd transmission is much more efficient than the SS. if someone wants to chime in on the technical reasons why the SS is a piece of ****, by all means, do so.
every company's automatics drive a little different, because of the way they're set up. american car companies, have been building v8 muscle cars with auto trannies since the 50's and i would hesitate to call a hemi charger slow. you can make a "faster" automatic, the question is, why would you want to?
(i my clutch. )
the question is, why? well, the H22 engine is rated at 190 bhp, which is short for 190 brake horsepower. this is how much HP the engine, by itself and unhooked to the transmission, can make. now, when you attach a transmission to the engine, which is very complicated has a lot of moving parts, you're going to experience some inefficiencies and lose some energy. the 5spd transmission is much more efficient than the SS. if someone wants to chime in on the technical reasons why the SS is a piece of ****, by all means, do so.
every company's automatics drive a little different, because of the way they're set up. american car companies, have been building v8 muscle cars with auto trannies since the 50's and i would hesitate to call a hemi charger slow. you can make a "faster" automatic, the question is, why would you want to?
(i
my clutch. )
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Re: (jspecbb2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jspecbb2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude your a ****** moron.. get out of this forum.. go hang yourself..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thread Starter
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From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: (lildawgryan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lildawgryan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ight whats the point of puttin down an SS cuz u got a MANNY. If all you care about is speed and a few extra seconds why did you get a Prelude??? Your the one who made the bad mistake in buying the car which you drive...your not driving other peoples cars so let em b..............ONE</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe try that one again when you're sober?
Maybe try that one again when you're sober?
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From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: (PetroGuyX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PetroGuyX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow guys, easy on the nooses and what not, 5 spd owns auto in anything but a muscle car... plain and simple </TD></TR></TABLE>
Why does it make a difference if it's a muscle car?
(I'm not trying to argue, I just want to learn )
</TD></TR></TABLE>Why does it make a difference if it's a muscle car?
(I'm not trying to argue, I just want to learn
)
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: (mistygirlkg)
well, because most muscle cars were made with automatics, back in the day. sometimes they had a 3 or 4 speed manual, but i think the big american auto co's assumed that people would rather drive an auto and concentrated on making beefy strong automatic transmission.
i'd still rather take my future 69 camaro RS as a standard shift, so i guess i'll just have to throw one in, maybe a full customizable race tranny
i'd still rather take my future 69 camaro RS as a standard shift, so i guess i'll just have to throw one in, maybe a full customizable race tranny
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: (h23pwr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h23pwr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not only are muscle car's automatics build strong, even stronger w/ upgraded torque converter, shifting can be made to be more efficient.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, i can see how nowadays an auto will shift faster than a left foot and right hand, but i need me some gear selectability. back then i'm not sure if they built autos that shifted faster than humanly possible but, anyway.
sequential/paddle shifter units and CVT's are "neat", but i'll probably drive standard H manuals for the rest of my life, provided they last that long.
yeah, i can see how nowadays an auto will shift faster than a left foot and right hand, but i need me some gear selectability. back then i'm not sure if they built autos that shifted faster than humanly possible but, anyway.
sequential/paddle shifter units and CVT's are "neat", but i'll probably drive standard H manuals for the rest of my life, provided they last that long.
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Southern Cali
Re: auto vs stick (88preylude)
ok, i have the SS lude, and an SH which is mine right now. i ran the SS against my friends 94 lude non-V and lost by 3 cars, i ran it with my SH bone stock and put 3+ cars on him. im not saying the 4th gen is slow dont get me wrong ppl, im just saying ihave experience cuz i have both cars and you can tell and FEEL the BIG *** difference. but for some reason the V seems a lil louder than the manual preludes. i dono why, can someone understand why that happens?
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From: wet Dreaming, over 400whp, USA
Re: auto vs stick (88preylude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88preylude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have 2 prelude's one is auto and one is manual and I think my auto prelude would eat your manual prelude. I am so confident that I will beat you by bus lengths that I will put money on the line( as much as you want)
Then when I smoke the **** out of you, I would like to know what you would say.
The only reason your talking is cuz you don't know how to drive so when you learn how to drive then you can talk.</TD></TR></TABLE>
please stop talking before u get flamed
I have 2 prelude's one is auto and one is manual and I think my auto prelude would eat your manual prelude. I am so confident that I will beat you by bus lengths that I will put money on the line( as much as you want)
Then when I smoke the **** out of you, I would like to know what you would say.
The only reason your talking is cuz you don't know how to drive so when you learn how to drive then you can talk.</TD></TR></TABLE>
please stop talking before u get flamed
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Southern Cali
Re: auto vs stick (92`Legend)
yea i agree, stop before ppl jump on you like wild animals. UNLESS your ******* boosting it squeezing or some **** has been done to it. but i believe we are talking about Stock on Stock.
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From: South Side of Hell
Re: auto vs stick (88preylude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88preylude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have 2 prelude's one is auto and one is manual and I think my auto prelude would eat your manual prelude. I am so confident that I will beat you by bus lengths that I will put money on the line( as much as you want)
Then when I smoke the **** out of you, I would like to know what you would say.
The only reason your talking is cuz you don't know how to drive so when you learn how to drive then you can talk.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are not allowed to post any opinions until we can validate that you are intelligent enough to post good information. So far you are failing.
Please shut up.
Thanks
Edit:
and I will put $10k on a race between your auto and my 5 speed. So unless you are are running 10's in the 1/4... Shut up.
There are more than a handful of people here that would beat you stupid in a race.
I have 2 prelude's one is auto and one is manual and I think my auto prelude would eat your manual prelude. I am so confident that I will beat you by bus lengths that I will put money on the line( as much as you want)
Then when I smoke the **** out of you, I would like to know what you would say.
The only reason your talking is cuz you don't know how to drive so when you learn how to drive then you can talk.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are not allowed to post any opinions until we can validate that you are intelligent enough to post good information. So far you are failing.
Please shut up.
Thanks
Edit:
and I will put $10k on a race between your auto and my 5 speed. So unless you are are running 10's in the 1/4... Shut up.
There are more than a handful of people here that would beat you stupid in a race.
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From: South Side of Hell
Re: auto vs stick (mistygirlkg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mistygirlkg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was debating with my boyfriend yesterday about whether or not an automatic transmission would really slow down a Prelude. He was swearing up and down that the <u>only</u> difference it makes is just that with a standard you can red line it. And that was <u>it.</u>
Opinions?
He drives an automatic '03 Pontiac Grand Am GT (they don't make it with a manual transmission, or else he would've gotten it) and he doesn't know a whole lot about Hondas, would it make a difference in the make of the car?
Modified by mistygirlkg at 7:25 PM 10/21/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
And to answer your question.
The auto transmission will be slower but more consistent in a race. Although the computer can shift faster, the gearing is different, and the power loss is greater with the auto. Also, (especially with Honda's) a stock auto tranny will never hold the power that a Manual can hold. If you put 500hp on an auto, it would disintegrate.
Opinions?
He drives an automatic '03 Pontiac Grand Am GT (they don't make it with a manual transmission, or else he would've gotten it) and he doesn't know a whole lot about Hondas, would it make a difference in the make of the car?
Modified by mistygirlkg at 7:25 PM 10/21/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
And to answer your question.
The auto transmission will be slower but more consistent in a race. Although the computer can shift faster, the gearing is different, and the power loss is greater with the auto. Also, (especially with Honda's) a stock auto tranny will never hold the power that a Manual can hold. If you put 500hp on an auto, it would disintegrate.
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From: USA
A manual is, without a doubt faster than an automatic. But the manual is dependent on driver skill. Its pretty easy to fall behind if you dont shift right. Also, automatics give you the impression of speed because you dont fall behind between shifts.
I'm not sure how much more power loss there is between automatic and manual transmissions. But manufacturers have to balance, performance, fuel economy and smoothness. And manuals give you more control over what the car is doing. Automatics have gotten pretty good, but they aren't quite as quick yet.
Those sequential shifters, like you get in the Ferrari 360, are the ideal setup.
There are also those Continuously Variable Transmissions which in theory are supposed to be very efficient. The concept behind them is that you're always at the right point in the powerband. In practice, however, it doesnt seem to work quite so well.
In terms of performance:
1) Sequential Shifter
2) Manual
3) Automatic
4) CVT
I'm not sure how much more power loss there is between automatic and manual transmissions. But manufacturers have to balance, performance, fuel economy and smoothness. And manuals give you more control over what the car is doing. Automatics have gotten pretty good, but they aren't quite as quick yet.
Those sequential shifters, like you get in the Ferrari 360, are the ideal setup.
There are also those Continuously Variable Transmissions which in theory are supposed to be very efficient. The concept behind them is that you're always at the right point in the powerband. In practice, however, it doesnt seem to work quite so well.
In terms of performance:
1) Sequential Shifter
2) Manual
3) Automatic
4) CVT
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From: Atlanta, ga, usa
I know the 5 speed is atleast a second faster 1/4, but if your not runnin under a 14.8, you will get raped in the ss 2-3 gear on the interstate. but when ss shifts into third around 120 You will definately gain back. Bottom line 1st and 4th gear suck *** on ss. My next major mod will be a good 5 speed.
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From: Windsor, PA
Re: (Nick M)
heres a link to some prelude dynos. compare the Sport shift (auto) numbers to the 5spd hp numbers. it clearly shows the power lost through an automatic.
(the sport shift is the first dyno-graph up there)
http://www.ntpog.org/dyno/index.shtml
(the sport shift is the first dyno-graph up there)
http://www.ntpog.org/dyno/index.shtml
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