Hey guys I was wondering if you can help. Ive done a lot of research on this particular build, and I was wondering if you would take a look at what I plan to use on this setup, let me know if it'll work and give me suggestions. Also, Im still looking for a shop capable of doing the buildup, and has been doing them successfully. Alot of money is going into this project so I want an experienced person with full knowledge of this buildup. So if you know of a shop that can do this, please let me know.

2000 B20Z Block
2000 B18C5 Head
B17A Crankshaft
Spoon Motor Mounts
Spoon 98 Spec R Tranny
Spoon Magnetic Oil and Trans Plug
Spoon Three Core Radiator
Spoon High Pressure Radiator Cap
Spoon Radiator Hose
Spoon Thermo Switch
Spoon Thermostat
Spoon Oil Cap
Spoon Exhaust
Spoon Hi-Flow Catalytic Converter
Spoon Uprated Oil Pump
Spoon Lower Arm Bushing Kit
Spoon Urethane Shift Linkage Bushing Kit
Spoon Urethane Strut Bushing Kit
Spoon Strut Bars- Upper Front
Lower Front
Upper Rear
Lower Rear
Spoon Throttlebody
Spoon Manifold
Spoon Oil Pan
Spoon Camshaft
Spoon Campulleys
Rods- Length= 141.7mm Rod To Stroke Ratio= 1.741
Pistons- 84.5mm
Oil Squirters- USDM Integra Type R
ARP Headstuds/Rodbolts
NGK Spark Plugs & Wires

Headwork= 5 angle valve job, Extrude Hone the intake manifold.
port and polish head, balance and knife edge crank, balance and blueprint entire engine

The car this is going into is a 1999 Civic LX Sedan.
I'll never drag it, it'll be strictly street and an occasional autox. I dont want to
gut out the interior, and Id prefer to stay n/a.

*edit sorry guys forgot to add the part list*



[Modified by TreDEE, 8:23 PM 9/3/2001]

 

spending a lot of cash on spoon stuff when you could probably have stuff that is equal quality for less

 

Drop the B17A crank if your not going forced induction.

 

I believe in Spoons products, their quality and workmanship is one of a kind. I know its a fine price to pay, but I believe my car deserves nothing less than the best.

 

But doesnt the B17A crank allow higher revs? So should I just go with the B20Z crank instead?

 

From my research on this setup, you really don't need the b17 crank. The power comes down low and rpm's is what's gonna kill the engine. Another reason why the GSR tranny is preferred. Don't know how much highway driving you do, but I would think an R tranny would have your rpm's up high in 5th gear. Not an expert here, just my observations.

 

So then go with the B20Z crank then right? Ive read over and over on the tranny dept, and the JDM 98 Spec R tranny would be my best bet. Im probably going to add a GSR 5th gear and an LS final drive.

 

Where did you get your B20 block from? how much did you pay? Anyways... use the B20 crank if your N/A. B17 is for F/I. I'm tryin t build a B20 too.. but cant seem to find a block at a good price..

 

My vote is for the B20 crank. And definitely a GSR or LS 5th gear.

 

I'd like to know how you're going to get the oil squirters in the non-VTEC block?

 

Endyn, the originators of the CRVTEC, says it can be done.

 

it can be done, but are you gonna spend the time or money or both to do it? I wouldn't.

Plus, I've heard from a round that the CR-vtec build up is different than the ls/vtec. There is a different method other than plugging up the oil hole, relocating dowels, and running new oil line. I've heard that it's more cmplicated than that to have a reliable cr-vtec setup


[Modified by Slow_ass_4dr, 12:16 PM 9/4/2001]

 

how much money do you have?

you've got all the little accessories but you're not putting any new pistons rods or rings in? Not to mention a girdle, new bearings, seals?

with the aforementioned you're looking at a $10k motor (with labor)

 

Oh BTW, IMHO, I think you should consider not getting so many little Spoon parts. You'll just spend too much money for nothing. Spend the money on good internals like high compression pistons and rods. You won't make that much power without hc pistons.

BTW, the oil squirters aren't a necessity. I'm not sure how well they work anyways, because the JDM versions of B16a and B18C5 don't have them. It seems that they only put them in USDM engines.

Are you sure you really want to put so much money into this car? By the way you posted all those parts and plans, it'll cost you 10000$+ to do this build with the parts you want. A lot of it will go into tuning it properly. It's not exactly a plug and play solution.

 

10,000 will be with HOOK UPS..... All those parts you list look like at least 13,000 from a glance. Hell... the header itself is 1,000...

 

Key word "SAYS" I have yet to see one done. Anyone got pics of this done???


[Modified by B18C-EJ1, 11:37 PM 9/4/2001]

 

yeah 10,000 is with the hook up. That is a real waste of getting all that spoon stuff. i.e. spoon thermostat, spoon oil cap? I would rather spend all that extra money on something more beneficial. But hey, if you got it like that, then you got it like that. Anyways, you don't want a b17a crank if your going NA. The b17a crank destrokes. Why you would want that on NA, don't know. And if your going to rebuild the bottom end, get new pistons, and rods if possible. Don't forget to get all the new bearings(rod bearings, main bearings) seals(rear main seal) thrust washers, oil pan gasket, valve seats, and all that other good stuff. And that all adds up too. You will be surprised to see how much all that stuffs cost. If your going to do it, do it right so you don't have to worry about it later. Just got mine rebuilt, hopefully should be getting it back today!


[Modified by b20b, 6:53 AM 9/5/2001]

 

b20b-Please do let us know how that badboy runs.

 

Sorry to say it, but even with all that "Bullshit" your still not going to be very fast.

All that motor is to me is a De-Stroked, Well-Built LS\VTEC that can Rev high.

You need to invest in a High Quality B16a Head Ported by ENDYN or Portflow with a TODA Valvetrain and some Toda Cs. You have alot of Goodies on that listbut not many "Power Adders". Who wants to spend 10k ona Motor that barely makes 200WHP??? Hell, If I was spending 10k, I would want a Custom Stroked LS with 87mm and 2.2L of Displacement and a ~1.75:1 R\S Ratio. Think Deck Plate and Custom Sleeves. Basically, you need to drop all the bullshit from your list and re-make a new list with parts that make power.

ENDYN 14:1 Pistons
ENDYN Headwork
Toda\Portflow Valvatrain
TODA C Specs
GEM Sleeves @ 84.5-87mm
Cometic Head Gasket
Yadda Yadda Yadda

I Love Spoon, but if you wanna bea Spoon *****, buy a Crate Motor and say **** it.

 

first, endyn is not the "originator" of the b20 vtec.. just wanna get that cleared up..

check this for a pic of the oil squirter bosses.. http://ferrari.colowatch.com/files/29354-Oil-Jets.jpg

oil squirters are really a judgement call. how are you going to drive the car? if it's primarily a street car with the occasional drag, then they're not necessary. now if it's a road racing car that gonna be run at high revs for long periods of time then you may wanna consider doing them..

here's instructions on the install..
just drill the appropriate sized hole to intersect the oil gallery in the side of the block.. fabricate four aluminum spacers to place the squirters low enough so the piston skirts don't hit them. afix the spacers to the block with screws. drill and tap the spacers/block and tap to accept the hollow squirter screws. drill a small anti-rotation dowel hole to properly locate the squirters and you're done.. screw em in.

now you're also saying your car should get the best and implying that spoon makes the best. what about good 'ol oem honda parts?! you know how much r&d are put into their parts??! look at the size and total value of the company "honda".. now look at "spoon".. who do you think has more money for r&d?? that's right.. the big "h".. just a thought before you start goin out and wasting your money on big name japanese parts.. now don't get me wrong, spoon makes some great stuff, but they ain't even close to the "end all be all" of honda performance.. i'd go with oem honda stuff over aftermarket **** almost any day of the week!

 

true.... IMO Honda does make good parts for OEM, but R&D dollars doesnt really play that big a role in the "performance" part for honda. All Honda parts are designed for reliability and to be economical. Only R parts are really performance minded but not with superior quality material..otherwise the Hondas and Acura's would cost twice as much. How nice would it be if Acura's and Honda's came with forged pistons and SS exhaust... but then again they have to past regulations and still be considered a mass production car. Companies like Spoon,Mugen, take the OEM parts and build on that. And as for Endyn...I'm not a believer... the whole Supercharger kit and the 350hp NA honda motor is too much to swallow. I can say I have a 250HP DX.. how many of you would beleive me? Just cuz i work on a few heads... and sand down a few Wiesco pistons dont mean much. Not to say his work isnt good..... its just not worth the price tag IMO.

 

 

2000 B20Z Block
2000 B18C5 Head
* Ok that's cool
B17A Crankshaft
* Why are you going down to 1.8L in a non-forced application? Bored?
Spoon Motor Mounts
* Why don't you just run American made ones that are a lot cheaper?
Spoon 98 Spec R Tranny
*How much is this and why is it so magical over the standard 98 R tranny?
Spoon Magnetic Oil and Trans Plug
*I suppose.
Spoon Three Core Radiator
*You HAVE seen how much this costs right? Go C&R, Fluidyne, hell, anything is cheaper.
Spoon High Pressure Radiator Cap
*That's cool.
Spoon Radiator Hose
*Bling bling for the color blue.
Spoon Thermo Switch
Spoon Thermostat
*Ok.
Spoon Oil Cap
*Er?
Spoon Exhaust
Spoon Hi-Flow Catalytic Converter
*You can do that stuff custom for a lot cheaper and it'll work the same
Spoon Uprated Oil Pump
*Ok
Spoon Lower Arm Bushing Kit
Spoon Urethane Shift Linkage Bushing Kit
Spoon Urethane Strut Bushing Kit
*Bling bling, go American.
Spoon Strut Bars- Upper Front
Lower Front
Upper Rear
*Ok
Spoon Throttlebody
*If you can afford it..
Spoon Manifold
*Exhaust? That's cool.
Spoon Oil Pan
*You know how much this costs right?
Spoon Camshaft
*Just one?
Spoon Campulleys
*Tight.

Headwork= 5 angle valve job, Extrude Hone the intake manifold.
port and polish head, balance and knife edge crank, balance and blueprint entire engine

I dunno why you're knife edging the crank, but ok ...

That's a lot of money for a street car that'll struggle to hit mid 12s.. but ok.