5 lug vs 4 lug question..
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5 lug vs 4 lug question..
Say someone had an ITR that had the 5 lugs removed, but were temporarily replaced with 4 lugs.. Also say that person had a full 5 lug conversion to put back on to make it normal again..
Aside from the brakes, what would the advantages be to having the 5 lug over the 4 lug, assuming the 4 was 4 wheel disc and could be upgraded to better rotors/pads/calipers?
Also, out of curiosity, how many R owners would be offended by this, just because it's not what the car came with? (just curious on this one.. the "someone" noted above is not taking emotional opinions into play/consideration..)
Thanks..
Aside from the brakes, what would the advantages be to having the 5 lug over the 4 lug, assuming the 4 was 4 wheel disc and could be upgraded to better rotors/pads/calipers?
Also, out of curiosity, how many R owners would be offended by this, just because it's not what the car came with? (just curious on this one.. the "someone" noted above is not taking emotional opinions into play/consideration..)
Thanks..
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (mstewar)
It's a nice anti-theft measure.
Other than the brakes, advantages of the ITR 5-lug suspension are beefier wheel bearings and more force clamping the wheels to the hubs. And I'm not sure whether the ITR bushings work with 4-lug suspension components.
But in the end it probably doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference.
Other than the brakes, advantages of the ITR 5-lug suspension are beefier wheel bearings and more force clamping the wheels to the hubs. And I'm not sure whether the ITR bushings work with 4-lug suspension components.
But in the end it probably doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference.
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (delinquent)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by delinquent »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i believe you could also run smaller wheels...allowing you to run taller slicks if drag racing is your thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The biggest difference is that the sidewall of the slicks is bigger.
The biggest difference is that the sidewall of the slicks is bigger.
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (DsR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DsR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the advantage would be an assload more wheels availabe in 15x7...
grrr...
*Im not sure what you are talking about getting emotional..
*</TD></TR></TABLE>
i just meant all the people that might come out of the woodwork and say that it's not an R without it's 5 lug, for no real techincal reason.. although I know honda must've put it on there for SOME reason..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a nice anti-theft measure.
Other than the brakes, advantages of the ITR 5-lug suspension are beefier wheel bearings and more force clamping the wheels to the hubs. And I'm not sure whether the ITR bushings work with 4-lug suspension components.
But in the end it probably doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Nice anti-theft measure indeed.. How much do the better wheel bearing and clamping force come into play really? During hard driving are they more of an impact, or was the 5 lug really overkill on honda's part?
I'm just trying to figure out if there's any true/noticeable performance difference between having 4 lug or 5 lug setups on there - aside from the brakes of course..
grrr...
*Im not sure what you are talking about getting emotional..
*</TD></TR></TABLE>i just meant all the people that might come out of the woodwork and say that it's not an R without it's 5 lug, for no real techincal reason.. although I know honda must've put it on there for SOME reason..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a nice anti-theft measure.
Other than the brakes, advantages of the ITR 5-lug suspension are beefier wheel bearings and more force clamping the wheels to the hubs. And I'm not sure whether the ITR bushings work with 4-lug suspension components.
But in the end it probably doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Nice anti-theft measure indeed.. How much do the better wheel bearing and clamping force come into play really? During hard driving are they more of an impact, or was the 5 lug really overkill on honda's part?
I'm just trying to figure out if there's any true/noticeable performance difference between having 4 lug or 5 lug setups on there - aside from the brakes of course..
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (mstewar)
5 lug suspension has better bushings vs. a 4 lug kit (they can all be swapped over)
5 lug has bigger brakes (Accord wagons have the same size rotor/caliper but 4 lug)
5 lug has bigger bearings (a 'wear item' that could be replaced (I am on my second, larger, drivers side bearing and it is going bad again))
4 lug suspension is lighter (a good thing)
4 lug suspension has a wider selection of wheels (as mentioned above)
Bigger hubs and bearings are the only plus that I can see... if you replace bearings after every few track weekends... the lighter suspension would be worth it.
5 lug has bigger brakes (Accord wagons have the same size rotor/caliper but 4 lug)
5 lug has bigger bearings (a 'wear item' that could be replaced (I am on my second, larger, drivers side bearing and it is going bad again))
4 lug suspension is lighter (a good thing)
4 lug suspension has a wider selection of wheels (as mentioned above)
Bigger hubs and bearings are the only plus that I can see... if you replace bearings after every few track weekends... the lighter suspension would be worth it.
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (mstewar)
a good friend of mine is a honda r&d engineer (he also races successfully in ssc).
he said the features of the r are designed to handle the higher spring rates and intended use.. which means more stress loads on the car. there's a reason for the 5 lug design and chassis reinforcements.. they wouldn't put it there to just 'look cool'.
can you get away with the 4 lug? sure. but honda obviously designed the r the way they did for a reason.
he told me this which was pretty cool.. they can simulate the entire life cycle of a car in just 2 weeks!
so the 600lb spring rates in my civic dx is probably killing it.
he said the features of the r are designed to handle the higher spring rates and intended use.. which means more stress loads on the car. there's a reason for the 5 lug design and chassis reinforcements.. they wouldn't put it there to just 'look cool'.
can you get away with the 4 lug? sure. but honda obviously designed the r the way they did for a reason.
he told me this which was pretty cool.. they can simulate the entire life cycle of a car in just 2 weeks!
so the 600lb spring rates in my civic dx is probably killing it.
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (kekek-20)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kekek-20 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there's a reason for the 5 lug design and chassis reinforcements.. they wouldn't put it there to just 'look cool'.
can you get away with the 4 lug? sure. but honda obviously designed the r the way they did for a reason.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, i wasn't insinuating it was there just to "look cool", more of a unneeded enhancement.. i was getting at what the reasons are that it's there, and how bad is it to lose those?
can you get away with the 4 lug? sure. but honda obviously designed the r the way they did for a reason.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, i wasn't insinuating it was there just to "look cool", more of a unneeded enhancement.. i was getting at what the reasons are that it's there, and how bad is it to lose those?
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (MK Ultra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a nice anti-theft measure.
Other than the brakes, advantages of the ITR 5-lug suspension are beefier wheel bearings and more force clamping the wheels to the hubs. And I'm not sure whether the ITR bushings work with 4-lug suspension components.
But in the end it probably doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>
odd, i was under the impression itr wheel bearings = integra wheel bearings.
Other than the brakes, advantages of the ITR 5-lug suspension are beefier wheel bearings and more force clamping the wheels to the hubs. And I'm not sure whether the ITR bushings work with 4-lug suspension components.
But in the end it probably doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>
odd, i was under the impression itr wheel bearings = integra wheel bearings.
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (MISFIT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MISFIT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about the 96 ITR four lug???</TD></TR></TABLE>
Isn't that very similar to the GSR setup?
Isn't that very similar to the GSR setup?
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (MISFIT)
well, that would be an option i guess.. but I have the 4 lug on the car already and a full 5 lug 98 spec ITR setup as well..
Basically, i'm debating if it is ok to keep the 4 lug so I can use the money from selling the 5 lug and wheels on something else, or if I should just put the 5 lug back on..
Basically, i'm debating if it is ok to keep the 4 lug so I can use the money from selling the 5 lug and wheels on something else, or if I should just put the 5 lug back on..
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (djhatch)
4 Lug :
+ Lighter, wider selection of wheels ext...ext
- Smaller brakes if using stock Calipers, ext...ext
5 Lug :
+ Bigger brakes(better stopping if road racing), larger bearings, R design
- More weight, Theft issue if driven on street also, ext...ext
"To Each His Own", If car is going to be road raced all the time, u can stick with 4lug for a bit of weight savings but then must think if u go to upgrade brakes that might be not an issue if "big brakes" weigh a bit more. I would go with the 5 lug. You already know the stopping power of the stock system!
Modified by Smitdog at 11:57 PM 11/8/2003
+ Lighter, wider selection of wheels ext...ext
- Smaller brakes if using stock Calipers, ext...ext
5 Lug :
+ Bigger brakes(better stopping if road racing), larger bearings, R design
- More weight, Theft issue if driven on street also, ext...ext
"To Each His Own", If car is going to be road raced all the time, u can stick with 4lug for a bit of weight savings but then must think if u go to upgrade brakes that might be not an issue if "big brakes" weigh a bit more. I would go with the 5 lug. You already know the stopping power of the stock system!
Modified by Smitdog at 11:57 PM 11/8/2003
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (Smitdog)
ask team orange racing about this one, i know a lot of you have seen this one before, going to jsut link it beucaes i havent gotten permission to post it
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (Smitdog)
4 lug brakes are smaller and have a lower rotational mass to achieve quicker acceleration but the downside is potentially slower deceleration becuase of inferior braking capabilities.
draggers and the like enjoy 4 lug setups for wide, lightweight 13x8 wheels and wide, small, lightweight slicks
draggers and the like enjoy 4 lug setups for wide, lightweight 13x8 wheels
and wide, small, lightweight slicks
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (b20bastard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20bastard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ask team orange racing about this one, i know a lot of you have seen this one before, going to jsut link it beucaes i havent gotten permission to post it
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Interesting....
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Interesting....
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (b20bastard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20bastard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ask team orange racing about this one, i know a lot of you have seen this one before, going to jsut link it beucaes i havent gotten permission to post it
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow.. so they expect that it was a result of using 4 lugs instead of 5?
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow.. so they expect that it was a result of using 4 lugs instead of 5?
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (mstewar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
wow.. so they expect that it was a result of using 4 lugs instead of 5?</TD></TR></TABLE>
they never mentioned that to me, but physics tells us that 5lugs would have distributed the load more evenly and posibly prevented that.
wow.. so they expect that it was a result of using 4 lugs instead of 5?</TD></TR></TABLE>
they never mentioned that to me, but physics tells us that 5lugs would have distributed the load more evenly and posibly prevented that.
Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (b20bastard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20bastard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ask team orange racing about this one, i know a lot of you have seen this one before, going to jsut link it beucaes i havent gotten permission to post it
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
i would be interested to know if any wheel spacers were being used with this setup. i've seen similar failures occur when people try to space out their wheels with washers.
http://www.teamorangeracing.co...9.jpg
apperently the lugs stripped off at 120mph , wheel then cut the lugs off, youch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
i would be interested to know if any wheel spacers were being used with this setup. i've seen similar failures occur when people try to space out their wheels with washers.
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (DsR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DsR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Isn't that very similar to the GSR setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>
GSR is 4x100 but the R is 4x114.3 or something
So you could still use ITR wheels from a 96...
Isn't that very similar to the GSR setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>
GSR is 4x100 but the R is 4x114.3 or something
So you could still use ITR wheels from a 96...
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (paste)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by paste »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
GSR is 4x100 but the R is 4x114.3 or something
So you could still use ITR wheels from a 96...</TD></TR></TABLE>you can use them on universal 4 lug rims.. like the volk ce28ns ... also I think the four lug would be a good idea .. because it might fool theives into thinking it was a gsr!
GSR is 4x100 but the R is 4x114.3 or something
So you could still use ITR wheels from a 96...</TD></TR></TABLE>you can use them on universal 4 lug rims.. like the volk ce28ns ... also I think the four lug would be a good idea .. because it might fool theives into thinking it was a gsr!
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Re: 5 lug vs 4 lug question.. (epsom salt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by epsom salt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> because it might fool theives into thinking it was a gsr! </TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly.. or at least make it less desireable.. i've already lost one..
</TD></TR></TABLE>exactly.. or at least make it less desireable.. i've already lost one..