After 2 years of autoxing and attending Nationals this year I have decided to say goodbye to autox and make the jump to HPDE. While I enjoyed the competition of autoxing, I couldn't help but feel empty each time I left an event after driving the car for a total of maybe 6 minutes. It was getting difficult to get excited and motivated.

I'm excited to take the R out on a road course and learn how to drive from an instructor at a much higher level and at much higher speeds. I will begin in the spring and plan on attending 4 events the first year.

So, in light of this I have some questions for you track ******...
I know some of this has been covered before, and I have some general ideas based on conversations on the board , but indulge me.

- What types of spare parts do you carry with you to the track?
- Do you change your pads before and after each event?
- When should I start thinking about a rollcage?
- What should be done to the car to prepare it for the track?
- What type of personal safety equipment (beyond a helmet) is needed?
- Advice on tires for a HPDE newbie? I'm assuming Azenis are great for somebody starting out. When did you go to R compunds?

What other advice do you have for me?

 



 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- What types of spare parts do you carry with you to the track?
- Do you change your pads before and after each event?
- When should I start thinking about a rollcage?
- What should be done to the car to prepare it for the track?
- What type of personal safety equipment (beyond a helmet) is needed?
- Advice on tires for a HPDE newbie? I'm assuming Azenis are great for somebody starting out. When did you go to R compunds?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think Will would be one of the Best to talk to since he has done about 5000 HDPE's I've only done a couple but I'll throw out what I know.
1) Oil, Basic Tools, Brake Fluid
2) Some people run a Pad just For the Track, others use the same pad on Street and Track. If I remember right you have the CC-x so You'll be all set using those on the Track and Street.
3) IMO I'd say as soon as you start, but I'm sure others will say when you get to Advanced, which I doubt will take you long.
4) Check Wheel Bearings, Bushings etc for wear, Safety Check.
5) Helmet
6) Usually they reccomend Street tires for a newcomer since they can tell a bit better on when the car is getting to its limits, but since your not really a Newb and you have been doing AutoX for 2 years I'd Say Azeni's would be fine and probably R compounds. (My 1st HDPE was on A032R's)

 

- Spare Parts, wow... Lots of them. Extra oil, coolant, brake fluid, necessary tools. It's a great idea to make friends and lend parts that they need so that when the time comes, you can get parts that you need from other racers. It's good to even have friends tag along in non-race cars to bring some spare tires, and what not and have a temporary "garage/shelter" for your stuff.

- Changing your pads will depend on how worn they are from the previous event. Difficult to call... You should probably have a set for racing only.

- Roll cage? Probably ASAP

- Other car preparations could include more gauges to monitor vital engine activities, if you have not already done so, and spare tires/rims, and spare parts. a small fire extinguisher? Lots of tape to cover glass... Also regular checking of all parts: brakes, engine components, alignment, etc.

- R compounds will probalby do well. You'll know, because you've autoX'ed before. Also, doesn't hurt to ask what others are running.

- Good luck and have fun! You'll probably be thrilled Good luck! keep us updated!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

- What types of spare parts do you carry with you to the track?
- Do you change your pads before and after each event?
- When should I start thinking about a rollcage?
- What should be done to the car to prepare it for the track?
- What type of personal safety equipment (beyond a helmet) is needed?
- Advice on tires for a HPDE newbie? I'm assuming Azenis are great for somebody starting out. When did you go to R compunds?

What other advice do you have for me?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I felt similarly about autocross, yet i did not invest 2 years (or more for a lot of people) into the sport. For me, it was fun to see friends and hang out, but I was not satisfied with 5-6 minutes per day in my car, not having enough runs to learn anything, and not competitive or enthusiastic enough to have fun soley by driving for 50 seconds at a time. To me, the driving time/money ratio is MUCH better on a road course. IMO, of course.

Anyhoo...

I bring:
extra rotors
brake fluid, oil
tools, torque wrench, gloves, helms, brake clean, etc
jack/stands
track pads
track tires (if they a) don't have much tread left like my falkens now or b) are R comps)
I'm sure I bring more, but I'm blanking right now.

I have street pads and track pads. I switch ONLY the front pads at the track, I use axxis ultimates in the rear all the time. I would recommend this, as opposed to a street/track hybrid pad. Just personal choice. The GT-Sports are very streetable, and I was very impressed with BrewCityR's brakes (he has gt sports) at MAM after I romped on them for 10-15 laps.

I bought a rollbar after one season. I would have got it earlier if I was sure I was going to continue and get 'serious' by doing many events a year. I think you could get it right away. Then you could also use a harness.... spending a year trying to plant myself using my knee on the door and pushing on the steering wheel to prevent me from sliding around (even with the stock 3pt locked) was not fun.

To prepare the car for the track.... nothing really. That is, if it is in good mechanical condition, as I'm sure your car is. Make sure you dont' have torn bushings or bad wheel bearings, stuff like that.

I have no other personal safety equipment beside my helmet, and the rollbar, but it isn't in the car yet.... I'm sure others can shed more light on this subject.

Use your Falkens. I am wildy impressed with them after one season, amazing. I have a set of used A032R's that i'll be trying out this weekend, but considering the price of Falkens, I don't know that I'll ever buy new R comps. I would do a full season on street tires before progressing to R comps, this is what I've been told and what I've heard around from sources I respect.

Hope this helps, Jon.
Looking forward to a review of the Fightex suspension once you have done a few HPDE's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- What types of spare parts do you carry with you to the track?
- Do you change your pads before and after each event?
- When should I start thinking about a rollcage?
- What should be done to the car to prepare it for the track?
- What type of personal safety equipment (beyond a helmet) is needed?
- Advice on tires for a HPDE newbie? I'm assuming Azenis are great for somebody starting out. When did you go to R compunds?</TD></TR></TABLE>

- A spare set of front rotors and tools to change said parts at track. This includes extra brake fluid, 10mm wrench and equipment necessary to bleed your brakes.

- If you go to track pads, keep track pads with track rotors and another set for street pads and rotors. Personally, I make time to prep the car and inspect everything before a HPDE. I change from street pad/rotor to track pad/rotor and drive to the track with them. I like being able to relax when I get to the hotel after a long drive to the track.

- ASAP. But I haven't even gotten a rollbar yet. I still like having a dual duty car.

- I do little 'cept if I find something wrong when I inspect/prep the car. After I get back, I do fluid changes (brake flush, oil change and tranny fluid change depending on mileage).

- Couldn't hurt to get gloves. A full nomex suit if you're uber paranoid or want to impress the chicks at a Hyperfest.

- You should start with street tires, IMHO. Considering that there is no timing and placing in HPDEs, you can save money by going with cheap(er) street tires.


Modified by thk at 12:56 PM 10/9/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After 2 years of autoxing </TD></TR></TABLE>
damn, it took you that long?

rob- who stopped autocrossing after 2.......events

 

I took your same path last year. I went to 2 National tours some Pros followed by a trip out to Nationals in Topeka. That was my last autocross. All this year I have been doing HPDEs. While I do not get to go as often, I have much more fun while I'm there. I always like autocross and still do, but the time committment to actual driving time is just not worth it for me. I may venture back once in a while, but my focus has shifted to road courses.

Spares: Usually brake pads, fluid
Pads, I have been changing at the events and switching before I go home. The pads I have been running do not stop well at all at street temps. I just do not want to risk an accident because I was too lazy to switch pads.
Prep: Learn to bleed your brakes!!!
Equipment: Besides a helmet I am going to get a set of gloves. Your hands can get sweaty and cause you to grip the steering wheel like a mad man.

Best advice... Stay on street tires for awhile. Azenis do very well on the track, are cheaper and you can easily drive to and from the events on them. I've done 11 weekends so far and I'm still running Azenis!!

 

Sean---Sure, some people could go 50 years w/o any incident, but it just depends.

Or, they could get into trouble lift thottle oversteering in their first.

 

Flux, I'm in the same boat as you, been autocrossing like crazy this season but will be heading to MidOhio on the 25th & 26th of this month. I cannot wait! Will be my second track event but my first in the ITR and my first in a long time. Don't know if I'll stop autocrossing though, can't really afford a lot of HPDE's and autocross seems to sooth the itch

 

For your first HPDE - just bring a helmet, make sure your car is in good mechanical condition (new fluids and at least 50% front pad) and a good (i.e. humble) attitude. Don't drive the **** out of your car - just take it easy - enjoy your time on the track and concentrate on following "the line" and using your VISION well. Most newbies don't look far enough down the track. Train your eyes and ears first before increasing speeds.

The Azenis will be great. You will probably need to use lower tire pressure than you were using at autocross. Your tires will REALLY heat up (changes of pressure of 10-15 psi are not uncommon). Bleed off excess pressure once the tires are hot and try to find the sweet spot in terms of tire pressure for your driving style.

Concentrate on BALANCING the car. Autocross can teach you bad habits - like jerky steering inputs and stabbing the brakes. Work on changing that to smooth inputs - the car will feel more balanced and in control that way.

Once you have been to a few HPDEs - then you can think about changing your car (i.e. brake pads, roll bars, seats etc).

Spare parts - I don't bring any - I think it's crazy to haul heavy rotors with you - if your rotors are that close to needing replacement - change them BEFORE you go to the event. You should spend your time DRIVING and not wrenching on your car. Smooth operation of your vehicle will impart less wear and tear on the drivetrain and brake system. You will not go through a set of pads in a day unless you are driving like a maniac or not using high-perf pads. Stock pads will overheat - don't use them.

Pads - go with at least 50% pads. If the pads are new - make sure they have been bedded properly - or else you will get hot spots and mad steering wheel shake - which can be a little disconcerting for a newbie.

Rollbar/cage - up to you. A bar adds nice stiffness to the chassis of the car

Car Prep - most HPDEs will "tech" your car in the morning. You should have a mechanic look over the car BEFORE you go. Check belts, fluids, pads, etc.

Safety equipment - don't wear synthetic materials like microfiber, fleece or polyester - they are not a good idea. Wear cotton instead. A good pair of thin soled shoes is good (better to feel the brake and gas pedal with). Your own helmet is good - but many HPDEs supply helmets to newbies (but most of them stink).

 

Good stuff guys! thanks. Keep it coming.

Like Mike said I am using the Endless CC-X pads and have really like them - so that may work as a pad I can use both at the track and on the street.

Based on feedback, I will probably hold off on the rollcage until next year sometime.

 

In regards to BPR's statement about the falkens heating up:

I start with cold pressures at: 37 front, 36 rear (23mm sway, stock suspension). Sometimes 36/35, or 36/36.

By the end of a typical 20-30 minute session at gingerman (similar results at MAM), my hot pressures are up to 43-45 front and 41-41 rear. I set them at 42/40 hot as soon as I get in. They are excellent in that pressure range to me, but don't go out there with cold 40+ psi tires. they'll get up into the 50's with no problem.

Oh, and loose clothing, like long sleeve cotton shirts and jeans. I pretty much wear the same pair of carpenter's style jeans, baggy ones, and the same set of running shoes since I have no racing shoes. Gloves are REALLY nice to have out there, there's nothing worse than sweaty palms on a steering wheel.

 

I probably don't count as much as a ***** than others simply because I don't get enough free time but, I'd still probably sell my first born for more seat time

Anyway, Autocross is a great way to start and get some great basic car control skills down before moving faster. My own biggest major issues were smootheness both with steering and braking, (both can be mastered with autocross as well but, IMHO tend to be quicker and jerkier.) I'm sure I wasn't the best autocrosser but, I work hard all the time to be as smoothe as possible when driving every day and especially on the roadcourse. I had to relearn a bit, and nip some of my bad habbits in the butt to be a better and smoother driver.

--I bring spare tires, stock and R compound pads, rotors, 3 to 5 quarts of motor oil, unopened brake fluid, jack, drill, breaker bar, torque wrench, basic tool kit and socket set, a few funnels, work gloves, racer tape, electrical tape, duct tape, numbers if I was smart enough to remember them, windex, simple green, latex gloves, paper towels, shop rags, garbage bags (learned this the hard way more than once), cooler, lots to drink (H2O, powerade, easy snacks, ice, cups,) sunblock, several hats, helmet, driving gloves, sunglasses, vid camera, mount, 2 way radios, rechargers, extra batteries, etc

What I've found I still need is: brake bleeding bottle (thank god theres usually someone with one when I've needed it) scrap rug to work on, gas can (I've run out of gas 2 times already and had to skip both sessions because of this , There must be more It will come to me,,, hopefully not axles like Rodney,

-- Depends, Sometimes I have changed them before the trip and others I have changed there, in general R compound pads don't operate as effectively at the temperatures that street pads do. You have to be aware of this and give yourself a bit more distance when driving on the street with them as well as be aware that if they are too cold there may be some premature rotor wear & dust. the Cobalt GTR VR's have a better feel, haven't damaged my rotors yet and the dust is alot kinder than the Hawk blues I ran previously, their price is comparable.

-- Start thinking about a rollbar (at the very least) cage ASAP. I drove one DE and decided then and there that I wanted/needed a rollbar, shell, and harnesses before I drove another, for safety and control and comfort.

-- Go over the car as if you would for a national autocross event. Check and possibly change all fluids,, connections, hoses, wires, brakes obviously, tires/pressures, wheel/hub play, tie rods, brake pedal pressure, umm the clubs usually send you a checklist of what you should check beforehand, just remember that it's your car between you and a wall or tree or another car at 100 plus MPH, check and recheck.

-- Gloves, are choice but, I find I get better grip and release witht hem and no sweat or whatnot messing with my grip. Good driving shoes that allow free motion and control of the pedals as well as FEEL, you must have feel of the throttle and brake, at least I must. U use cheapo Adidas Samba's (indoor soccer shoes) cheap, light, easy to move and great feel. PEdals are another thing I'd class as a safety thing that adds to control. Something else I wil classify as safety/ educational would be 2 person intercom lilke the chatterbox, it steepens the learning curve tremendously.

-- Tires,,, H'mm that's totally preference but, I'd suggest doing at least your first HPDE on the Azenis. If you're already confortable on R compounds then you may just do your subsequent DE's on R's. It totally depends on 3 things, budget, experience and comfort.

That said, I have been on the track 5 times total and every time on Azenis. I drove Autocross on Hoosiers and Khumo's but, decided for myself that I would drive one season at least on Azenis to learn as much and get as far as I could as cheaply as possible. I am borderline now in my own opinion and am ready to make the move next season. Totally preference though mind you. A good idea would be to ask your instructor if you are driving well enough or out driving your car or tires and might you be ready to move up to R's. Take his or her opinion into consideration, not that they have the last word. I've seen Novices in NSX's on brand new Hoosiers (just plain silly and dangerous IMHO, he went off and wrecked the first day BTW.)

I am just really finishing up my first year of DE's and love them by far more than autocross. Per dollar value, and seat time and class time included as well as how they fit into my hectic schedule, I get way more out of them. I feel I drive better at DE's as well as opposed to autocross. But, I have major respect for Autocross and the guys who are great at it.

A good autocrosser doesn't always make a good track driver and vice versa. I enjoy DE's and roadcourse more than autocross and will continue this route till I have my comp license. I won't quit autocross though, I learned so very much from them and have made som great lifelong friends from both that share the same passion.

Ask away, I am not the best, fastest nor have I driven the most, but, I am satisfied with my experience and progress and am confident at the level I currently drive at.

Oh and I'll be signing autographs at NASA's Limerock HPDE on November 10th.


Anton

 

wow, some good info in here.... like he said, keep it comming

Justin - Who is soaking it up getting ready for my first event, Mid-Ohio 25th-26th

 

I think the most important spare you can bring to the track is a spare wallet. A good friend and experienced road racer said to me "you should right the car cost odd as soon as you get on the track. If you can't throw it away without crying then don't get on track"

On a philosphical level, I think it's incorrect to think of HPDE as being a higher level than auto-x. There is no competition with others at an HPDE. So although you get much more seat time, that time is not at the limit (nor should it be)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- What types of spare parts do you carry with you to the track?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
front rotors and pads. (brake fluid and oil also)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- Do you change your pads before and after each event?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup... thursday and monday nights = pad swapping time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- When should I start thinking about a rollcage?</TD></TR></TABLE>
right now.. if you have the money get one. roll bar will suffice

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- What should be done to the car to prepare it for the track?</TD></TR></TABLE>
front pads/brake fluid/removal of the front splash brake shields/fresh oil & filter/fresh tranny fluid/good dyno tuning.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- What type of personal safety equipment (beyond a helmet) is needed?</TD></TR></TABLE>
gloves, shoes, and a neck brace of some sorts.
if you have the roll bar a pair or bucket seats and 5 point harness are added to my list.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- Advice on tires for a HPDE newbie?</TD></TR></TABLE>
street tires...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm assuming Azenis are great for somebody starting out. When did you go to R compunds?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Azenis are good unless it is raining... then some nice normal street tires would be better.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What other advice do you have for me?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Have fun and kiss auto-X good bye.

 

why can't you do both autox and hpde? you might miss the competition.

autox = racing
hpde = driving enjoyment.

i need both.

 

man no one to get rides from anymore =/

 

Fill up your tires with nitrogen, it wont expand.

 

What? No more auto-x? Who's going to be the experienced Honda/Acura driver to give advice? Haha, its ok I plan on doing HPDE's next spring too, before jumping into the HC here in Texas. Guess you'll be giving me some heads up there too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ill phil &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What? No more auto-x? Who's going to be the experienced Honda/Acura driver to give advice? Haha, its ok I plan on doing HPDE's next spring too, before jumping into the HC here in Texas. Guess you'll be giving me some heads up there too </TD></TR></TABLE>

I jsut say we do the track events together...

You know what I mean though right? I work hard on my car and I want to drive it in earnest and learn its limits for more than 6 minutes a month...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I jsut say we do the track events together...

You know what I mean though right? I work hard on my car and I want to drive it in earnest and learn its limits for more than 6 minutes a month...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds good

Yeah, I definitely understand the thinking and although I have been enjoying auto-x, those thoughts have crossed my mind many a time. And I often think that when I pick up new parts which are more geared towards track use. Hey I gotta put them to use right? Hehe. I've been slowly gearing my car a little more towards road racing in hopes that HC would come to Texas. Now that there is a site and events next year, I really need to get on the ball with some lessons and HPDEs to get prepared. So I'm all in for the track days and treks to get there! Although I may still attend the local auto-x's for fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoesTypeS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fill up your tires with nitrogen, it wont expand.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where the hell did you hear this??? That is not true.

The reason to use nitrogen over compressed air is the amount of water vapor in the air varies day by day, making the air-filled tires expand unpredictably. Pure nitrogen, without any moisture in it, eliminates that variable.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have fun and kiss auto-X good bye. </TD></TR></TABLE>