...ultra-lightweight.

As I look forward to next years racing I got a problem. Same old problem. Me and my kaa are overweight. About 200lbs more than the legal minimum.

So if I'm gonna do anything about it, I figure I gotta do it all the way right?

And just what is all the way? Bota's car is the current standard.

So I took the first little step a couple of days ago and called JDMHONDAPARTS and ordered the Aluminum B-series A/C mount (front motor mount).

What next? Some of it is rules driven, and some of it is just driven by madness.

Lexan windows are legal. Proglass wants around $400 for a formed GE MR-10 windshield, and just a little less for the rear window. Or a 3X5 flat sheet of 6mm will probably work cold on the front, but a 4X8 flat sheet of 3mm will be required for the rear. The sheets total around $350. The weight savings will be around 50%. As high as it is that's really nice. The question is how many seasons can I get out of the windshield?

No water plumbing in the cockpit. So the heater/ventilation system has to go. That's fine, but I'm going to have to figure out a simple module that I can quickly reinstall for events where it is legal (when you want it you really want it).

No ABS. I can just disable it for the events where it's prohibited, but the additional poundage taunts me. I find it a valuable assistance every so often, and I'd miss it in the wet of course. But only idiots flat spot alot of tires without ABS, so I ought to be able to dispose of it.

Without the ABS, the rest of the brake system needs rethinking. It's a no brainer to go with some Aluminum calipers front and rear (losing he e-brake too). Keep the stock rotors, use 4-piston diff bore in the front, and singles in the rear. That's a nice loss.

Gotta take care of the other end then. Booster and MC have to go. Between Tiltons short master cylinders and remote setup maybe I can fit he MC/Balance bar in the engine bay and use the stock pedal assembly.

Stock appearing dash made of alternate materials is ok. If you've had it out you know how it's heavier than you'd expect. A thin carbon copy will take off some more highly placed pounds.

While I'm in the area, the steering column can be replaced with a tube. The stock L-shaped rectangular tubing steering column support can be removed, and the rest of the sheet metal support cut out, and support the column from the cages Knee-Crusher bar. More pounds gone.

The Hood can be reduced to little more than the skin - better do it.

Headlights (working) may be required, so they may have to stay. Otherwise they go.

The door window frames are pretty substantial. Maybe they could meet up with Mr. Sawzall and Mr Die Grinder.

And of course the battery has to move. I'll have to compromise a bit. Put it at the very back and you do favorable work on behalf of weight distribution at expense in polar moment of inertia. And you add the weight of the longer postitve cable. It'll go in the passenger footwell sidways to leave room for the occassional passengers feet. The fire sysem bottle will be on the floor right behind the passenger seat.

Whatwith deleting the stock instrument cluster, and having so little of the original electrical system still necessary, it's tempting to try to eliminate some of the wiring. This frightens me. Maybe later.

Sway bars need some resizing. And they really should be hollow. Speedway Engineering wil be selling me some bars. That's going to be a bit more work on the front in relation to the header, but a way will be found. The Fosstech solution of just letting the sway bar run under a typical header/collector won't do.

Gonna hafta redo the exhaust. Ultra thin tubing, make up a 3 inch pulse termination box for the tunnel and run all the way back to a Pete Weber muff at the very back. Gotta try to get it down to the low 90's.

What's this all add up to? 100 lbs? I sure hope so. Maybe even a little more. I'm around 2520 with driver in impound now. The highest legal minimum I face is 2350.

It's gonna be a long crazy winter.

Scott, who want's to drive THIS car very much...I believe in the simple physics of mass and force...

 

Scott, you might also want to check out SHIELDS if you haven't already - might save a little bit on Lexan windshield price.

Lightening the hood to the skin will also require careful stiffening (I'm thinking of custom making some fiberglass runners) - or it'll flop around like crazy.

 

i'm a big guy in a little car. (6'3'' 220lbs in a miata of all things)

i also have the challenge of meeting min weight. i will share my approach

start at the top, remove any little minor thing you can find. example, the highest point for me is the front of the windshield. sun visors aren't needed (tinted helmet shield), take those out, as well as the bolts that hold them in. next further down is the dash, you already have a plan for that it sounds like. empty windshield washer fluid (or just take out the resevoir if it's legal). get rid of your antenna, get rid of the wiring that goes with it. airbags? there's another one with sensors, wires, etc that can save significant weight.on my miata there is insulation back by the firewall, it's a huge PITA, but i cut that out. the plastic stuff that goes around wiring to protect it, i suppose that could be taken out and you can hold it together with zip ties. any screw, nut, bolt, etc. that you can find, oust it. as i'm sure you know, work top down, and from outside the axels in.

 

I was about to say something about removing the e-brake, but since you're going to dual MCs, you should have enough redundancy. I've been glad I still had mine in the HC car a couple of times.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Scott, who want's to drive THIS car very much...I believe in the simple physics of mass and force...
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edit: nebbermind -- I now realize the fatal flaw of my thinking, or lack thereof...


Modified by Neo at 1:53 PM 10/9/2003

 

Casey,

You're thinking too much. Last time I did that I got confused too.

Zero - that's the amount of Money. Negative values are common as well.

Scott, who's ideas look best..."on paper"...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Zero - that's the amount of Money. Negative values are common as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>That is the joy of weight reduction.... you can tear out stuff w/o spending money.

A few saw blades... some beer... some touchup paint and you are done.

 

I think you are looking at deltas for force in your equation, Casey. Therefore, when you reduce weight, less force is *needed* to achieve the same acceleration. You were attempting to solve for one variable with 2 constants, unless I misread.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Casey,

You're thinking too much. Last time I did that I got confused too.
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Alrighty then. Too bad, 'cause I thought for once I might be doing some good thinking there...

George, perhaps I am the kettle, or the horse that's led to water.... But I prefer to think of myself of the tail that wags the dog.... as long as it's a good sporting dog, like a Lab, not some miniature mutated rat like canine or some fluffy showy couch ornament....

 

How much does the driver weigh?

 

Keep the front windshield glass but replace everything else with Lexan. Those pieces will last much longer that the front if properly cared for. This is pretty common amongst tin top production guys. You keep a little weight, but you don't have to replace the front lexan yearly.

Also lose the front lights unless the rules say you need them. They are heavy. Heater core is a chuck of heavy as well.

Somehow my ITC car came right up at min weight on the first try and there's not much else I can legally do anyway. Lighter wheels would be nice though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The door window frames are pretty substantial. Maybe they could meet up with Mr. Sawzall and Mr Die Grinder.
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wtf, thats legal somewhere?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 57STS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much does the driver weigh? </TD></TR></TABLE>

You mean the incredible dissapearing man? What're you down to now Scotty, about a buck fifty?

 

Holding steady at about 160 (@ 5-9).

I did the Atkins thing, and then went with a bit more Carbs ala The Zone program.

In simple terms I cut out sugar, bread, and potatos, and added more vegatables to my already joyfully carnivorous habits.

I feel comfortable in saying that I'm not on a "diet", but rather that I've changed my eating habits and discipline. It's not an effort.

Scott, who thinks that it's just another one of those things in life...I never thought I'd be overweight...I never thought I'd give up my favorite epicurean vices...hell, I never thought I'd drive FWD...I never thought I'd be listening to a Zeppelin tune and get bored and bring up another station playing The Carpenters and think "ah, that's better"...I'd better stop now.

 

Good G-d how many intersecting topics. Major carb reduction has been a great change of eating habits for me. Since the end of May I am down 29 lbs. and really don't feel I am missing anything appetite wise (except what became all too frequent - "ugh I am stuffed" feeling). But I do like a carb throw down once a week just to give the metabolism a kick in the pants. I too don't think of it as a diet moreso a lifestyle change as I began walking and lifting (12-15 miles per week/3 days a week).

Kundera's <u>Unbearable ..</u> easily in my top 10. Hrmm, I'll start a thread - shoot, Scott does it all the time with music and movies and such - will reading (which was at last check, fundamental) get locked up?

 

Its funny about the carb thing. Its my downfall. I don't eat stuff like desserts and candy. Got no real love for chocolate or ice cream. Mostly stay away from fast foods too (well, except pizza).
My downfall is bread and pasta. I LOVE the stuff. It makes up a huge part of my diet. And none of this tree huggin' earthgrain bread either... I'm talkin' huge chunks of fresh Sourdough (I can easily call a fresh loaf of Sourdough a "meal") and Italian bread. Lunch sammiches are taken on good old fashioned white bread.
And pasta... I've tried to quit and can't. 3 of my 5 favorite meals on the planet are pasta dishes.

The result... When I actively "diet" I can get down to 220 (@5'11) but basically have hovered at 225 for the past 10 years.
I'd love to see 190, but then I'd just have to put lead in the car anyway. So... I'm going to toss up some alfredo for lunch .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good G-d how many intersecting topics. Major carb reduction has been a great change of eating habits for me.
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Same here. I spent three years regularly in the gym (may '99 - may -'02), with a not so good diet (i.e., carbs, beer, and not in regulation very often), and little results. Sure, I was stronger and my endurance for running, biking, sports, etc, was much better, but I hadn't lost the weight that I originally signed up at the gym to lose. (10-15lbs.)

In three months afterwards, on a low-carb (not quite atkins, more what Scott was talking about), high protein diet where I never felt stuffed or had to loosen the belt, I went from 172lbs and bulky (5'8") to 157lbs with my metabolism on fire. Not only was I leaner, more healthy, happier, etc, but I was MUCH stronger than I was at the heavier weight.

Chris - who hopes he can worry only about weight reduction in the car and not self weight reduction... should that ever become a concern... maybe for 2005.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Holding steady at about 160 (@ 5-9)...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're still in pretty good shape for a 70+ year old... and at 5'9" you haven't shrunk as much as I thought you could. But anyway...

I would think the ABS and heater core would go along way to help reduce the weight. (Mike and i have been talking about having Morgan install a brake bias setup for the cars... of course it would be in the engine bay to remain IT legal).

Are you sure you want to start grinding your car? After looking at Mike's grey RS mess, I always cringe when i hear someone want to break out the sawzall and cutting wheel.




Modified by bulldog_RS20 at 5:59 PM 10/9/2003

 

are most racers over weight?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cheap Bastard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are most racers over weight?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My father travels a fair amount to China, India and other eastern countries. While going through one of the fiber plants he was doing business, a supervisor ask him about the United States. The man wanted to come to the U.S. to see "the place where the poor people are fat". Does that answer your question.

On a serious side note, that statement has helped me understand how the world views us. It's not something that I'm proud of.

 

here's another sad (and very scary, IMO) stat: 65% of americans are overweight. That 2 out of 3. yikes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like the simple physics, too, but I'm not sure how this would work out on paper. If force = mass x acceleration, then less mass at a constant velocity (where acceleration = 0) would equal less force. That would seem to a good thing as it relates to mechanical grip, but that's just a guess -- maybe more force is better? &lt;scratches head&gt; Or, if acceleration is zero, doesn't that make the product (M x A) also zero, which means F = 0 too....?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay, you got really confused somewhere Force stays pretty well constant (you have the same engine). Therefore, as mass goes down, acceleration goes up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cheap Bastard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are most racers over weight?</TD></TR></TABLE>

31% of the U.S. population ages 18 years and older are obese (BMI =&gt;30). When you include both obese and overweight individuals (BMI =&gt;25), the prevalence jumps to 64%. So, nearly two-thirds of the U.S. adult population is heavier, and in some cases much heavier, than they should be for their height.

We don't collect data according to racer/non-racer status, but to the extent that the folks who race are representative of folks who don't, then YES, most racers are overweight...

 

I will quickly admit that I am overweight. No problem.
But I have issues with the data we see based upon my own personal experiences. I'll elaborate:

The last physical I had came up stating that based on my height and bone structure (measured around my wrist. I think this is the Body Mass Indicator Casey referred to) I should weigh around 175lbs.
Now I'm no doctor, but 175lbs for me borders on ridiculous. Anyone who has seen me would likely agree.
I haven't weighed 175 since I was somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 years old. I was in fairly good shape back then as well but still listed as "overweight." I would venture to say that right now I'd look pretty damned ill if I weighed in at 175lbs. And while I'll admit that I could stand to lose some weight, I can't see myself as 50lbs overweight. 25, maybe even 30, but certainly not 50.

So, I do think we are the eatingest country on the planet ("We call them app-ee-tizers" -- Cartman), but I also think those numbers are a tad skewed. I don't look or feel obese, but the techniques for measuring said things say that I am.
Casey can probably shed further light (heehee... puns are fun) on this.

PS - This isn't really off topic BTW.

 

I'm 5' 10 1/2", and right now I'm at 215. I'm a bit overweight, but the BMI says I'm obese. I was down to 172-173 a few years ago when I was racing mountain bikes, and I looked like ****. Alot of people thought I was sick, because my face looked emaciated. I was really lean (about 4% body fat), but still had some pretty huge legs. That is the reason for my body weight. My legs are big. Thighs are 23-24", and calves are 20-21". That typically throws the whole BMI system down the crapper.