I called Jim at NHRA today concerning the tire rules for Sport FWD. The question
was, is it legal to cut your front fenders for tire clearance. Jim told me the rule
had been changed to allow for it, much to my surprise! SO, I guess the Neon will
be wearing some larger shoes for next year.

While I had him we talked about a few other concern's. Making the class Pro,
limiting the stickers to contingancy only, size of sponcer stickers, race skinny's,
pulling the exhaust and passenger seat.

I forgot to give him input on raising the min weights a little and maybe a max spec
for slick size. I see the tire thing to be a huge issue, how long will it be until we
have 28"er's on our cars. With larger tires driveline breakage starts to show it's
ugly head. Sure would hate to have to replace transmissions like the HotRod guys do every few pass's!

The rules will go to the printer in 3 weeks, so give them your input NOW before
things get set in stone!

Steve

 

I feel they need to make it ILLEGAL to use welded diff's, spools, etc...
Why? Many of the people in the Sport FWD class (being that its NOT a pro class) are beginners and I would hate for a beginner who has a spool, etc... to break an axle and crash into my lane. Many people in the sport FWD class are using HIGH performance setups and some of the people have little experience. I would think it would be a shame for someone to get injured from a beginner with a CRAZY setup to crash into someone because that driver can't control the car.

Also I think they should allow the removal of certain interior componets for the placement of key cage componets to meet the rules. I would hate to see people sacrific safety in order to keep certain interior componets.

Also I think some clarification on the seat brace setup would be nice to have in the rule book.

Also the fender and slick rule change is a great idea. A max slick size would also be nice to see (say 28").

Also sponcership stickers, etc... should be banned!!!! This is a street class, company sponcerships should not be in the street classes. Thats all NHRA needs is more venom cars and more companies taking over the class which discourages the average joe in street classes.

Also a increase in the weight is a MUST. A 50lbs difference for 2 power adders vs. one power adder is quite crazy when people are getting an extra 100hp from nitrous on their turbo setups.

I really think that having NHRA cover the class online and give results would be one of the best idea's. I think its unfair for people to have to get results from other websites and not NHRA.

I'll add some more idea's when get some more time...

 

I agree , if you are allowed to cut your fenders then a tire limit will defently have to go into affect. We would have run a bigger tire earlier but did not think it would fit, and did not want to cut. As far as minimum weights, I think they are fair, you start adding weight car will start breaking more. Our car weighed 2612 this weekend we are 200 pounds over weight but still competitive, so the weight is really not an issue. The cars should have there interior , except were safety concerns would not allow, like cages going thur the back seats and such. The exhaust rule keeps with the spirit of the class, but does make it harder for the heavier cars to get closer to minimum weight, also the dot tires in the back might not be the best idea unless the are speed rated" not much issue for 10 seconds, but the mph could be dangerous especially as the cars start approaching 150. I hope the class still reprensents street strip cars, and not cars that could not compete in hot rod. If we can keep this civil maybe others who have run the class give there opinions. Jason

 

I agree with Jason, however I feel that skinnes should not be allowed since it kind of takes away from the street apperence. Also the exhaust rule I feel it fair, its a street car and it should have a full exhaust as with street rims/tires in the rear.
Also the cage problem is a HUGE issue. Some cars now and especally next year are passing the 135mph or 9.99 faster area, so many people are having to make FULL cages. Yes you can make a full-cage with a stock dash, however retaining the stock headliner makes it impossible to add in tabs from the cage to the body for additional safety and strength. Also NHRA needs to clearly state if you need the rear side panels in the car if you use a cage.
It appears that certain rules are said by word of mouth rather then in the rule book.

 

i Think they should change the exhaust rule. Why should the braket guys be able to run open downpipe but not sport front wheel drive...I drive my car open downpipe on the street anyways.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rboosted717 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A max slick size would also be nice to see (say 28").</TD></TR></TABLE> 28 inch slick is way to big for a street car if anything limit the sizes to 26, no car will resemble a street car with a 28 inch slick on the front of it.
As far as the seat brace rule that has been around for ever and is self explanatory.
Why should sponsorship stickers be banned? People that work hard and benefit from sponsors .Because of there hard work,should they be punished? Then anyone with deeper pockets still will have an advantage , in the end racing is not cheap, any heads up competion will eventually begin to push the envelope. How can you honestly regulated it?People will get money to go faster one way or the other why make it harder? If the rules are fair money will be less of an issue ,then innovation,and driver skill , will seperate the winners and the losers. We just need fair rules not biased towards one make or model, and keep the class " streetable", not hot rod cars with no wheeile bars..... Jason

 

You can make a full nhra certified cage with a headliner in your car, it is not easy but very possible. Most shops probally will take the windsheild out to finish the front hoop, why not just remove the headliner then, weld in the cage put the liner back in before you put the windsheild back , a little bit of a pain, but I can tell you it looks very nice when done, you can even paint the cage with the glass out. Jason

 

it would be great if they removed the headliner rule. if you have a sunroof there leaves little clearance between the drivers helmet and the hieghtest portion of the cage.

i think having a 28 inch tire allowed is simply rediculous. if i wanted to run the 5 grand nitrodriveline axles required to turn those tires, i'd run in hotrod. 26 inches is a good compromise.

 

yeah i think a 28" tire is rediculous. 26" is big enough. as far as sponsorship i dont see the problem with it. like jason said. why limit the class. allows room for others to step up.

 

Isn't the whole point of this class, is to be a stepping stone? For people who want to compete heads up, but haven't yet achieved the "Hot Rod" level? Sponsor stickers should be fine. You are allowed to run them in the bracket classes are you not? And as far as the exhaust rule, what difference does it really make? why not simply run a 4" exhaust? Tires? Jason nailed it a 28" slick is CRAZY on a street car, 26 is pushing the limit as far I am concerned. You guys have hit pretty much all the concerns surrounding this class, and I hope that Jim and the rule team at NHRA are taking notice. AS someone has pointed out in another thread, you guys are the next wave of racers, and should be taken car of accordingly. Also web coverage would be nice.

Clayton

 

If the slick can't fit on the car unless it's all cut up, then you shouldn't be able to use it.

Also, I agree with the spool and welded diff comments. A "STREET" car can't possibly have a welded diff or spool. At least not in the general sense of the rules, a street car has to be able to cruise about normally in my opinion.

 

Heres my opinion on the subject.

Slicks. Slicks should be limited to a certain height and weight, as most sanctioning bodies are. I do not believe in cutting fenders. I think a streetcar should have stock unscathed panels.

Exhaust. Exhaust, even tho i dont have one on my car, lol, Is probably the more reasonable way to comply to "street" rules. I do drive my car open downpipe on the street, but that doesnt mean its practical. I do it because i like it better. If the class still conforms to an exhaust rule next season, i will get an exhaust. I also wouldnt see a problem with a Mini weight penalty for open exhaust. IMO, an exhaust does not make the car a hell of alot faster, so a minor weight penalty may work.

Spool/Welded Diff This has to be the dumbest rule ive ever heard of yet. How can anyone expect a fwd car to go fast without making sufficient modifications to the drivetrain?. Its unfair to companys like Pro-Drove, Richmond, etc, who make diffs for hondas, to be banned from using their products in a particulair class. Its almost like a monopoly.. Any transmission modifications should be deemed legal, as long as they are still regularly shifted trannys wityh stock casing, No air shifted or dog cut gearboxes. Auto's are fine of course, any stall converter would be welcome.

Headliner/Interior. Interior is a must in a streetcar. Headliner, even tho hangs low and may prevent the rollcage from being properly porportioned, should be there. Streetcar should have street appeal and relate to a stock car.. I have seem some really nice cages installed with cars with headliners, and the nicer the cage, the safer the driver. If you guys chince on the cage, saftey obviosly wasnt an issue. So do yourself a favor. As many of the hot rod cars do, buid your cage to class specs before you run any events. It will give you a peice of mind incase any unfortunate accidents that may occur, and also will show that you are serious about racing, and safety of course. My comments on matching/non matching seats is.. a seat is a seat, if soemone has one racing seat, so be it. If i was teching soemone, i rather see one racing seat rather then 2 stock seats. Most racing seats are SFI safety compliant, and will give the driver added safety, which SHOULD be the NHRA's #1 concern.

Stickers/Sponsors. Come on. If someone wants to be sponsored, let thm have stickers. But.. If they want to have stickers, maybe have them designated to one particular part of the car, so they arent plastered all over. I think if a specicfic sponsor is allocated a specific part of a car, and all cars utilize the same spot, then it gives sponsors more chance to be creative .

 

so what if street cars run 28" slicks, heck let them run 30". 99.9% of the people who do that will never make any real use of them and will just run slow.

I feel that banning spools, welded diffs, etc... is a great idea, since the main reason is for SAFETY. Remember many cars in this class no not have cages and an impact from a car loosing control with a spool and broken axel and hitting a car without a cage would be horrible. I've seen pro cars break axels with a spool and 90% of the time they will either hit the wall, cross over into the other lane, or bairly stop the car before hitting something.

As for sponcerships, sure running some small decals is ok, I'm just talking about making it so a large corp. like Venom, etc... with pocketless budgets can't run the class. I'm not saying they will do this, but hell I don't see why they won't since they have a car in almost everyother class. IMO- I could careless if they do, because it will just make me work harder, however I know many people who fill the class can't afford to keep up with or even compete when large corps. build purpose built cars for certain classes. However this would be extreamly hard to judge or rule.

As for the cage and interior thing, sure I built my cage to fit with the full, complete interior, however it would be nice if they would allow me to cut or notch parts of the headliner so that I could add welded tabs to the halo section to help tie in the roof with the cage for stiffness and safety.

As for cutting fenders, etc... as long as it looks clean it should be allowed. Heck many cars run so many various body kits, how can you judge whats legal or not. Some people even custom design fenders with molded flairs, etc.. to look clean. Also some people trim the front bumper for safety so that if the driver needs to turn, their wont be a chance that the bumper will grab the tire and pop or rip it. IMO I'd rather see people cutting and doing clean fender/bumper work, then popping slicks while they go down the track.


Modified by Rboosted717 at 5:44 PM 10/7/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rboosted717 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so what if street cars run 28" slicks, heck let them run 30". </TD></TR></TABLE>
Um, i care. Since i run these types of classes, I would certainly care if i see a GM Backed car with no stickers and a 30 inch slick on the car, Yer god damn right i care.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rboosted717 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I feel that banning spools, welded diffs, etc... is a great idea, since the main reason is for safety. Remember many cars in this class no not have cages </TD></TR></TABLE> Cars without cages are not alowwed to run in the class. Racing is racing, Race at your own risk. If it crashes, its tragic, but crashes DO occur, and most spools dont break axles on power, mostly at the line.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rboosted717 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for sponcerships, sure running some small decals is ok, I'm just talking about making it so a large corp. like Venom, etc... with pocketless budgets can't run the class. I'm not saying they will do this, but hell I don't see why they won't since they have a car in almost everyother class.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree. I think something should be done about this also. Private racers, business are ok. Anyone else care to comment on this particulair subject?

 

since when are cars without cages not allowed to run in this class? Let I checked many people in the class hit 13's, etc... All they need is a helmet.

As for the slick comment, I guess thats true. Personally at most races I always see people with too large of a slick, or too big of a turbo, etc... and they just run slow, so I never cared. But yeah that is true, whats to stop a domestic, etc... from coming out and making use of a large slick. In that case I think 26" should be the max allowed to run.

 

Damn...I hope you guys are around next year when I start racing. I am DEFINITELY going to need some clarification on the rules. And did I hear you guys right? You can make an 8 point roll cage withough screwing up the dash?

Oh yeah, a 28" slick is freaking rediculous and nobody should be allowed to start cutting fenders just for the fact that it would help enforce the size of the tire rule which I though it was there for in the first place.


Modified by Redlineracer at 9:28 PM 10/7/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rboosted717 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">since when are cars without cages not allowed to run in this class? Let I checked many people in the class hit 13's, etc... All they need is a helmet.

As for the slick comment, I guess thats true. Personally at most races I always see people with too large of a slick, or too big of a turbo, etc.... But yeah that is true, whats to stop a domestic, etc... from coming out and making use of a large slick. In that case I think 26" should be the max allowed to run.</TD></TR></TABLE>

NHRA requires all competitors to use a 4 point cage 11.99 or slower, a 5 point cage 10.99 or slower, and an 8 point cage 9.99 or slower. All cars must have a cage ( and proper safety equipment) to compete

And the tire comment is true. Id hate to see an automatic cavalier with 30's running me into the ground. Cause they WONT break. and most of those Gm trannys, believe it or not, are open diff, lol.

 

yes you can make a cage without touching the dash. Cusco even makes a design that doesn't mess with the dash I believe. Me personally I cut the dash some to drop the custom cage bar through the dash and to allow removal of the dash with the cage in place.

 

yeah your correct, however if you run 12.00 or slower, you just need a helmet and no cage. Checking the rule book now, just to make sure.

Here's the rule book:
"4:10 Roll Bars
Mandatory in all cars running 11.99 or quicker, or per Class
Requirements."

"4:11 Roll Cage
Mandatory in all cars running quicker than 10.99 seconds or faster
than 135 mph, or per Class Requirements. Cars with unaltered
firewall, floor, and body (from firewall rearward, wheeltubs
permitted) running between 10.00 and 10.99, roll bar permitted in
place of roll cage, or per Class Requirements."

Here's the rules for the Sport FWD class:
"Roll Bar:
Roll bar mandatory in all cars running 11.00 to 11.99 and in
convertibles running 11.00 to 13.99. See General Regulations
4:10, 10:6.
Roll Cage:
Roll cage mandatory in cars running 10.99 or quicker or any car
exceeding 135 mph. Cars with unaltered firewall, floor, and body
(from firewall rearward, wheeltubs permitted), running between
10.00 and 10.99, roll bar permitted in place of roll cage. Cars
running 9.99 or quicker must have chassis inspected every three
years by NHRA and have a serialized sticker affixed to cage before
participation. See General Regulations 4:11."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SIXTYdashONE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Id hate to see an automatic cavalier with 30's running me into the ground. Cause they WONT break. and most of those Gm trannys, believe it or not, are open diff, lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Really, didn't know that. Was that sunfire manual? Looked at the car some what but didn't pay attention really. My friend asked and they said they are somewhat factory backed whatever that means.

 

a 13.0 car wont make the feild whatsoever, hehe

 

many cars run 12's in the class and do NOT have a cage. And YES they are a huge part of the class. Thats why I say certain rules need to be addressed because in some rare cases you may have a 9sec car going against a 12sec car which can have problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rboosted717 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">many cars run 12's in the class and do NOT have a cage. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not on the east coast. hehe. These cars should be dealt with by NHRA officials.

 

why should they be delt with, its LEGAL!!!!
READ: "Roll bar mandatory in all cars running 11.00 to 11.99 and in
convertibles running 11.00 to 13.99." THATS FROM NHRA!!!!!
Am I taking crazy pills? lol j/k

 

Im saying, if they dont comply, they should be dealt with. Anyways, dont count on any 13 second cars making the field.