http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/ne...=lgns

One person dead. The career of a guy who had a shot at being one of the best who ever played ruined. For no reason at all. None.

All of the major sports leagues should introduce their players to HPDE. The irony is that they likely don't do such things because they feel its too risky and dangerous.

RIP Dan Snyder - A guy who completely owned Eric Lindros in a game last year even though he gave up 6+ inches in height and about 40lbs in weight. A true scrapper, the guy probably should have been dead 6 days ago.
RIP Dany Heatley's Career - A shattered jaw, torn ligaments in his knee, his best friend dead by his actions, and a pile of charges waiting to be filed on him.
RIP Atlanta Thrasher's hopes of making the playoffs this year.

All for just a little ******* around in a Ferrari. Useless, worthless, stupid *** ****.


Modified by Catch 22 at 11:12 AM 10/6/2003

 

 

The exact same thing happened to Charlotte Hornets player Bobby Phils a few years ago. He and Davis Wesley thought is would be fun to leave practice at about 120mph in their matching 911 turbos. Phils lost control, hit a minivan, died instantly.

Damn shame.

 

On a road I drive to work everyday, we had the same thing happen. Driver going way too fast, lost it and a passenger was killed. The driver was drunk.

The really screwed up thing is that the driver was a cop too.

 

stupid, plain stupid

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> All of the major sports leagues should introduce their players to HPDE. </TD></TR></TABLE>

But they won't let you drive a HPDE at night on public roads when you're drunk without a helmet or seatbelts and with a friend along for the ride, so where's the fun in that?

Guess there's some who will never learn that physics doesn't care how big your contract is.

 

That brings up yet another point.
Snyder was killed by a blow to the head that fractured his skull. Had this same incident occured on a track while wearing a helmet he'd likely be walking around right now telling people how scarey the whole thing was.

And of course, as it seems typically happens, the person driving the car lives while someone else dies.

As a Thrashers fan and &lt;former&gt; Heatley fan this really really pisses me off.
Yes, he's 22 years old. Yes, he owns a Ferrari. No, thats not an excuse for planting your head 3 feet up your *** and being a stupid ********.
Its just goddamned dumb.

 

"All of the major sports leagues should introduce their players to HPDE"

Thats a cool idea, or to modify it have their own track days and keep the silly fast cars over there while we play with Hondas and such

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That brings up yet another point.
Snyder was killed by a blow to the head that fractured his skull. Had this same incident occured on a track while wearing a helmet he'd likely be walking around right now telling people how scarey the whole thing was.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not so sure about that. The car was cut in half. Passenger side first. HALF. He was thrown 30 feet out of the car, so that would indicate that he wasn't wearing a seat belt. Or, conversely, he WAS wearing a seat belt, but the shearing action of telephone pole on Italian steel broke loose the mounts for said belt, and tossed him like craps dice anyway. I'm not so sure a helmet would have prevented killing him, just given him an open casket funeral.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As a Thrashers fan and &lt;former&gt; Heatley fan this really really pisses me off.
Yes, he's 22 years old. Yes, he owns a Ferrari. No, thats not an excuse for planting your head 3 feet up your *** and being a stupid ********.
Its just goddamned dumb.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Does the Atlanta Constitution have an opinions page you can write to? Maybe, just maybe, someone in the organization will read it and say "you know, that HPDE thing might be a good idea in the offseason for these guys..."

 

It may sound like a good idea, but I doubt that sending these guys to HPDE is going to keep them from getting tanked on Saturday night and driving like fools. Remember that they are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES - with cat-like reflexes, excellent motor skills, and inflated egos. They'll do one school weekend and decide they're <U>really</U> invincible, and go out and swat a few more innocents. Then they'll blame the bad instruction they got, 'cause it can't be <U>their</U> fault. They're athletes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Had this same incident occured on a track while wearing a helmet he'd likely be walking around right now telling people how scarey the whole thing was.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geezer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I Remember that they are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES - with cat-like reflexes, excellent motor skills, and inflated egos. They'll do one school weekend and decide they're <U>really</U> invincible, and go out and swat a few more innocents. Then they'll blame the bad instruction they got, 'cause it can't be <U>their</U> fault. They're athletes. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point and here's another about some pro-athletes.

My predecessor at KONI went on to work for a company that managed the lives and finances of athletes. All too often you get a not necessarily worldly or smart guy filled with a mixture of money, ego, hubris, testosterone, etc. and the guy blows his money and comes apart at the seams.

I got hear some of the stories about the manager's having to save the guys from themselves and anyone on the outside that wants their money. Pretty sad to know that most have the fiscal control of a teenager and learn their lessons too late if ever (Mike Tyson being the posterchild). Just because you can pay for a Ferrari is not a sign that you can use it properly but it is good at gaining attention.

 

im gonna outside of party lines here and say that you guys need to separate **** on the news from what our hobby is about. our hobby is not about driving on the street safely, jackass's who kill and maim themselves or others are either acting foolish, or just called accidents. anyone of us can be or has been in an accident, and everyone one of us has acted like jackasses on the street. accidents just happen, sometimes theyre encouraged, sometimes not. this has NOTHING TO DO with HPDE or autox, or track racing or whatever. its just about not making the proper decisions of responsibility on the street or just lady luck. just because someone dies on the street (and they do every 10 minutes), it doesnt make what we do as a hobby any more righteous, important, civicly responsible, or whatever reason ppl keep beating this dead horse in this forum.

 

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">accidents just happen, sometimes theyre encouraged, sometimes not. this has NOTHING TO DO with HPDE or autox, or track racing or whatever. its just about not making the proper decisions of responsibility on the street or just lady luck. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I can honestly say that at this point in time, I would not do (or do) certain things and/or make certain decisions regarding driving on the street that otherwise I wouldn’t have known any better had I never been introduced to the world of driving beyond that experienced on the street.

No question doing hpde or anything else driving related does pay out at least to some extent in the long run. But IMO, and the reason why even making a couple of HPDEs mandatory could do more harm than good, the human ego will get developed a lot faster than driving ability and decision making. For some, running a couple of driving events will severely boost their egos with false confidence, while it would make a very little, if not insignificant, impact on their overall driving abilities.

Having said that, IMO what happened here is irrelevant whether someone is a pro athlete, a pro racecar driver, superman, or a person sitting up on the highest row watching a game. It’s a matter of simple common sense, and not any kind of science. This was not a close call gone bad due to some bad luck by any means. Such a 1 car scenario where the car gets ripped in half is WAY past any kind of a close call, or the term "accident”. Some 14 yr old might still not have this much common sense, and that’s why he/she doesn’t have a driving license yet. But a 20+ yr old?



Modified by Hracer at 4:53 PM 10/6/2003

 

actually, i didnt mean to call this specific incident just an "accident". i meant to differentiate between reckless driving and accident, but we and the whole friggin rest of society is going to be part of both to some degree or another (called free will and life), which, i totally agree with you, makes incidents like this totally irrelevent to this forum.

 

Similar story in GDD
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=640096

replace "young athletes" with "young rich kids" and you end up with the same result.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruthless013 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep. Looks pretty bad. But remember that the driver came away with a damaged knee and broken jaw. So believe it or not it would be potentially very survivable if Snyder was wearing a helmet. He had multiple injuries but what killed him was a blow to the head. Helmeted and harnessed drivers have walked away from incidents that looked just as ugly.

And I disagree Tyson. There are quite a few younger guys in this forum (Alex, Ryan...) that openly admit that getting their fixes at the track and autocrosses keeps them from street jackassery. Hell, I'm 35 years old but I still have a speed fetish... and I drive a Toyota Tundra on the street and am perfectly happy to do so.

I think that getting a fix in a controlled environment could help prevent such stupidity. Then again, maybe not. Its got to be worth a try though.

 

I have to admit, that when I was 16 I was a reasonably stupid driver. There were some stupider, and some of those people are now deceased. I did take a lot of chances though, and had I been driving something quicker than my mom's 1.6 litre A2 golf I might have been less lucky. I did get wiser with age, but since I started autocrossing I've become a much more cautious driver.

It's not that I'm able to get my "speed fix" on weekends; rather, I realize that my car (and it's driver) have a limit and when that limit is exceeded the driver LOSES CONTROL. The cones that I've sent to a better place while autocrossing would have been trees, pedestrians, on coming traffic, etc. on the street. Once I realized just how helpless the driver is in a spinning car I eliminated all automotive antics from my commute. Well okay, I at least reduced them.

I'm just glad that I had my first medium speed spin on the track rather than on the street so I didn't have to learn the hard way.

 

Guys,

I feel Catch22 does bring up a very good question, in fact
this thread is an excellent place to present this discussion.

The question is does an HPDE, and/or any other motorsport school, or competition,
help young drivers ?

I thought that it would help?!?

A young sixteen year old, neighbor who spent 6
years of his life working, and purchased his dream car, E30 M3. thank god I
talked him out of a Corvette. So I brought him to many autoX events,
he started getting pretty good. Enjoying some success and gain confidence
in his skills. I figured he was learning how to drive, and an understanding
how easy it is to get into oversteer, I thought he was gaining some respect
for the skills needed, and the possible outcome of pushing too hard.

Obviously I was wrong, he went driving in the mountains one day, and didn't
stop at a stop sign, turned right, crossed the median and hit an oncoming
truck. Although nobody was injured, the car is totaled, I have to believe
given the speeds, that it was feet and seconds from a head on collision
and a certain death.

This makes me ask the question......

Should the SCCA have a program to teach these "first gears" respect for
the skills they are learning?

Should we as drivers help the younger kids learning, even by example?

In my region, going to an event you can be passed by all types of
autocross cars doing 80-90mph. I even had an NSX pass me doing at
least 100mph on the way to an event. Is this the proper behavior/example
we are teaching ?

Is there more I could have done ?

All this may not be relative to winning a road racing/autoX, but it
is thought provoking, and does have relevancy to what its all about.

Cya on the road,

BoxsterPaul.

 

Paul, Catch 22, et. al.:

Sorry to be the lifetime pessimist here, but here's my "opinion/*******."

No matter what level of skill, talent, competence one may have behind the wheel, or in their hands to exploit at the track, it will NEVER engender anyone with RESTRAINT.
That, and the lack of personal responsibility, will for now, and ALWAYS, be the principal catalyst behind events like the one that caused the above death. Yes, it's tragic, but it will continue to happen when you mix a high profile car with an operator lacking restraint.

Sure , you could say had the driver been more "skilled" the event wouldn't have happened; I'd argue, however, that skill simply postpones , or dulls, the blade of probablity for a given time, but eventually it's going to cut you regardless (see above for story of E30 m3 kid, with learned skill, and the summation of all that in the context of a "mountain drive.")

The guy that drove the car lacked restraint, judgment and responsibility. Those are personal elemnts that can't be bought, and if someone of that age lacks those fundamentals, well they lack them, period. The guy that died excercised poor judgmemnt by maybe not commenting to his buddy that he felt endangered. Then again, no one wants to be a "*****," either.

It's tragic, and sad, and a waste of life. Sadly, however, it wont stop. It can't. Unless we'd like to rewrite Darwins theisis'.

 

didnt know much about dan snyder (except the a-hole redskins owner), but i was a huge fan of heatley. both him and kovulchuk were the two sole reasons i was gonna start rooting for the thrashers. it really is a damn shame...

 

Have you all read about the dive an M3 took off a cliff in California over the weekend? Driver and passenger got away, but the passenger in the rear seat was trapped, the car caught fire, and exploded while bystanders heard him screaming. Very very sad for the poor soul in the rear seat....

 

I agree with you.

The fact that there are people driving 100 mph to and from an autox event has nothing to do with the fact that they are going to an autox event. They are the people bb6h22a describes in the above post and would do this regardless.

Also, having years of experience at some kind of competition driving can only play a factor in close calls. Running a red light and getting into a wreck or approaching a 30 mph turn at 80 mph will result in a crash regardless of whether Montoya is behind the wheel or someone who just got their driver's license a week ago. The only difference here is that only one of those two in question would most likely not be in this situation in the first place - something that has a lot more to do with common sense than actual driving skill. Driving experience plays a factor if you are placed in a situation where you just barely cross the line (intentionally or not) and get into trouble. Common sense is for everything else.