Hey Guys...Gals.

Ok the norm for autoxing is to put cars into different "classes" so that everyone is somewhat equal.

What happens when you run all the classes against each other? Our local autox usually has only 30 cars or so running in any given event. For whatever reason they decided long ago to just put everyone together and get the top three out of all the cars.

Cars with racing tires are classed seperately.

So who has the advantage? In the short time Ive been with the club it seems that the vehicles that are closer to stock have the advantage...what's your opinion?

Does any else participate in a club that does this?

Thanks as always

 

Doing this in large regions would be very frustrating. While my DS ITR would regularly PAX top 5, I would have been in the bottom 20 in raw time for many events. We have a lot of DM and FM cars that get FTD by 10 seconds! For smaller regions, I can see how the regular class system would be lame since everyone is alone in their class, but at events with over 100-150 cars, that's not a problem.

Time for you to buy a lotus.

 

The reason the stock class cars usually pax higher on the local level is most have people in SP, Prepared and Mod cars have not prepared their cars to the limit of the rules. Stock cars need little prep work in comparision to be near the limit for the class. The pax numbers are based on national level competitors. The faster the car the harder it is to drive as well.

 

We average about 80-100 drivers per event here (biggest was 127 this year) and we group the cars in to 2 groups for PAX. Stock and SP are PAXed separately using respective indexes for their classes. This works quite well.

We also have another class P1/P2 which is somewhat of a crossover between SM and Prepared. Basically an almost you-run-what-you-brung class, allows SM engine/suspension mods and stripping the interior and lightening the body. P1/P2 are not indexed and are basically separate categories. The class was created specifically for people who are allergic to PAX. P1 cars = ASP+BSP+CSP. P2 cars = DSP+ESP+FSP. We almost never have MOD cars in our region. When they do show up, they are grouped separately in the standings.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason the stock class cars usually pax higher on the local level is most have people in SP, Prepared and Mod cars have not prepared their cars to the limit of the rules. Stock cars need little prep work in comparision to be near the limit for the class. The pax numbers are based on national level competitors. The faster the car the harder it is to drive as well. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. But with that in mind is there an additional formula to help out cars that aren't stock?

Really no biggy. I think it just makes you learn that much quicker. the only unfortunate thing is somedays it doesn't matter how well you drive...you still get beat down.

I understand at this level its all in fun but fair is cool to.

Thanks for all the response's guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RangerDan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Agreed. But with that in mind is there an additional formula to help out cars that aren't stock?
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Say What?!? You mean some kind of Anti-PAX? Non-stock cars don't need any help because they can modify parts in ways that stock can't. If you run in SP but your car isn't close to setup for that class, who's fault is it? the rules or yours?

I run with a small local group now and then that get about 30-40 drivers an event. They just group everyone together and use raw times in the end.

Say you had an event with only 25 people and you used all the standard SCCA classes. How many drivers would you have in each class? Many classes would have 1 driver. Where's the fun in winning in a class that you're the only driver. If you group everyone together in 1 group it's more fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geratol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Say What?!?

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You guys use raw time? That would be great!

And if you have say 30 people show up and break it into 4 classes at least it would be closer.

And yeah no fun being third out of three lol.

I really want to go try out the Denver region next season. Im sure theres a lot more cars.

 

Our region does points by PAX. 25-40 cars at most of the sites but at Roebling we get a bigger crowd

 

This is a difficult task. The only other suggestion I would have is talk to so of the people that run solo in Canada, there are several on the board here. As I remember, some of them are assigned different pax penalities for more prep. Example, you have a harder pax for headers, suspension, LSD, etc. each item is assigned a specific penality that applies toward its pax. It would take some upfront work to organize.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is a difficult task. The only other suggestion I would have is talk to so of the people that run solo in Canada, there are several on the board here. As I remember, some of them are assigned different pax penalities for more prep. Example, you have a harder pax for headers, suspension, LSD, etc. each item is assigned a specific penality that applies toward its pax. It would take some upfront work to organize. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont know of any such system. The CNAC rules (which we do not use here) uses a point system for preparation level. For example in SuperStock (~SP), you are allowed several mods but every mod counts a certain amount of points and you are allowed only 6 points. So you have to chose your mods carefully (ex: header vs LSD? umm tough choice)... But AFAIK, i've never heard of any system that changes the PAX based on mods. If there is, it would be hell to implement and manage fairly.

I think the best in RangerDan's case would be to use the PAX system but separate the Stock cars from prepared cars into 2-3 classes similar to what we do here Regionally. This would still give you 10-15 cars per class and some very interesting competition, depending on the level of talent in the club...

PAX is a great system and all, but on a local level where you rarely see cars prepared to the limit of the rules it favors Stock cars which are by nature, close to the limit of the rules. The other factor not to be taken for granted, is the typically lower grip surfaces one finds regionally compared to Forbes Field. The very high grip surface there favors prepared cars, which can run much stiffer suspension to take advantage of the extra grip. Whereas most stock suspensions become overwhelmed... Switch to a slippery, bumpy surface and the difference between stock and prepared suspensions becomes a lot smaller and hence the times. Which skews the PAX results...

 

usually how do the cars fare amongst each other...does the index work?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bbqman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">usually how do the cars fare amongst each other...does the index work?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Crosser mentioned earlier and I think most people would agree that certain cars left close to stock have the best chance becuase most people at this level dont fully modify their sm class cars.

Overall its pretty good. While my driving isn't to bad my car could really use some tuning in the suspension and better tires to run in the top two or three. In our group of drivers raw time is pretty important also.

Overall I think it makes you stay on your toes...which is what its all about anyways.