I'd ask this in motorsports, but it seems there is a wide variety of pedal configurations between Hondas.

I always try to do actual "heel-toe" with the ball of my foot on the gas and blipping with the heel. I just don't have enough room. I can do it chicken-toe like a champ using the left ball of my foot on the brake and the right ball on the gas. the pedals seem at the perfect plane for it, and I've never had a problem with not being able to apply enough power.

so those of you that heel-toe, what method do you use?

 

89hatch
i got size 12 feet, so it was difficult with the interior in, but once i got the carpet out, i can swing that heel like nobody's buisness. So i like to do it in the classic position.

d.

 

no kidding... I'll try just removing the floormats and see if that helps. my feet are a mere size 11.

 

I do it the classic way wih my toes on the brake and swing my heel out and tap the gas it works ggod it just took a couple weeks to perfect

 

Ideally, you would have the pedals configured in such a way that you can place the ball of your foot on the brake and use the outside of your foot to blip the throttle. You may need to bend the gas or make an extension for the gas pedal to get it to work.

 

what do you actually use these methods for???

 

heel-toe downshifting. it's for road racing. it allows for downshifting from, say, 5>2 without effecting the car's stability. no lurch or surge. also, if you regularly heel-toe, you'll always be in the right gear if you mess up and have to mash the throttle or hard brake then throttle. when you're watching racing and you hear the guys revving their engines as they enter a corner, that's them heel-toe'ing. it's basically double-clutching while braking.

 

classic posistion, took awhile to get used to

 

Personally I use the method that you called 'chiken-toe'. I saw it on the <U>Master of the 6th Speed</U> cartoon that I got on a CDRom from <U>Super Street</U>.

I was watching the cartoon, and saw the hero do that 'blipping', and was like "OH YEAH. I can do that."

Now, it is like a habit for me at times. It has smehow become part of my everyday driving. What started as a little bito fun is now an integral part of my daily practice... Go figure.

JM2CW,
Scott

 

yeah. I heel-toe down sequentially from 5&gt;2 every time I have to come to a stop, just for practice. it's addictive. I never try gettihng it into first. I doubt I'd need that for track. once I get all the other gears down perfect I might try it into 1st. just a little skeer'd.

is there any advantage to teh classic method over the "chicken toe" method?

 

Truckers and road racers are forced to use these techniques because they have what's known as "crash-boxes." Which are transmissions that don't have synchros. Street cars don't require heel-and-toe because synchros match the speeds of the gears. But on a race car or truck, they don't have synchronizers so the driver has to speed up the input shaft by letting the clutch out in with the tranny in neutral, blip the throttle, then put the clutch back in and put the car in gear, let the clutch back out and the input and output speeds of the system should all match up. It's pretty fun to do on a street car when you get the hang of it, and it will help keep the wheels planted at the track during downshifts. You can downshift a lot quicker with this method with less wear on the car.

 

heel toe downshifting is to keep the revs up so the car wont jerk and throw it off in the corner. and so when your coming out of the corner you can mash the gas and keep going. its just like rev matching. only your using the brakes as well.

 

how to do a heel-toe? I understand that using your toe on brake and heel on gas when downshifting, but do you guy punch the gas with the heel and let go of the clutch or just some gas right at the point where the clutch engage?

 

I've always wondered about this myself. Sometimes I can pull off heel-toe but I'm not too fast at it yet though I can perfectly match revs by tapping the gas. If I could mix the two I'd be in good shape then....

 

my position is usually in front of the computer telling marcus to give me my $13...or on the phone.....but more often than not its online......

 

big chicken foot here. classic is impossible for me im too big 6'2" big shoe too....it works my way

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EF_89Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how to do a heel-toe? I understand that using your toe on brake and heel on gas when downshifting, but do you guy punch the gas with the heel and let go of the clutch or just some gas right at the point where the clutch engage?</TD></TR></TABLE>

was wondering that myself. i usually try to heel-toe when coming down from longer off ramps. just not sure if im doing it all right....

 

i use the following method...

i use my front part of my R foot.... basically only the toes... on the brake,... i can use all the strenght i want... and with the ball of my foot, i give it some gas...

 

i do it the way that gets me around the corner the fastest. it dont take much to rev match a b16 with a flywheel

 

with my 16's, im doing the same way u are igg. im also using pedal covers to get the pedals closer. since im so tall, theres no room for me to swing the heal.

-spenc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EF-9SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

was wondering that myself. i usually try to heel-toe when coming down from longer off ramps. just not sure if im doing it all right....</TD></TR></TABLE>

if the downshift is smooth, then ur doing it right. basically, clutch in, rev and downshift, let out clutch. when u get the rev match correctly u can let that clutch out as fast as u like and the car wont buck, clunl, jerk or anything of the sort.

-spenc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now, it is like a habit for me at times. It has smehow become part of my everyday driving. What started as a little bito fun is now an integral part of my daily practice... Go figure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ditto, I also chicken-toe.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Truckers and road racers are forced to use these techniques because they have what's known as "crash-boxes." Which are transmissions that don't have synchros. Street cars don't require heel-and-toe because synchros match the speeds of the gears. But on a race car or truck, they don't have synchronizers</TD></TR></TABLE>
That part is wrong, everything else is right. Most trucks I've had the chance to drive (albiet small on the truck scale, the biggest being an FL80) have all had synchros. The main reason for double clutching a truck is the wear factor. 800k miles doesn't come from jamming it into every gear. Some road racers may have crash boxes, but many also have dog style gear boxes (like a bike) which don't require even clutching on the upshift. Double clutching is just to prevent unsettling the cars suspension when the clutch is released.

Those of you complaining about small pedal boxes, try out a 1G CRX, then the 2G will seem very large.

-Dustin

 

I can't believe that this topic continues to draw so much misinformation and mystery. Anyway, to answer the question...

I used to brake with the ball of my foot and roll over the outside edge of my foot to blip the gas. I did this autocrossing and I always did this on the street to practice. However, once I started braking with the force required on a full track, I soon found that the brake pedal was well beyond my reach with the ball of my foot. I have since started braking with the toe-half of my foot and bliping the gas with my heel, since I'm braking much harder now and the throttle blip has to be much less precise.

 

Werd. "Chicken Toeing" is generally a bad habbit to develop as you will eventually find out as you increase your level of driving. You won't have the control of your brakes that is required for the track, and also risk slipping off of the brakes if you hit a bump, rumblestrip, curbing, etc. I have a size 11 1/2 shoe and have to work to get my foot across over the gas (and my seat doesn't let me move much either), as long as you practice and get used to it, it's not a problem. I try to rev just slightly over the RPM of the next gear and let the clutch out slow enough to use it as a guide to where the gas should be. For beginners though, I really wouldn't concern yourself with any of this, it will come with practice and comfort in your car. Spend more time worrying about learning where to brake, apexing properly, and looking for flags and cornerstations.

 

http://www.turn-fast.com

lots of information on all this stuff. even has illustrations on it.