If we were to fab a Prelude Vortech supercharger setup for 4th gen and most likely 5th gen... how many of you would seriously buy one if i proved it to be reliable?

 

Personally I haven't been impressed with centrifugal supercharger results on small displacement 4 cylinder engines. The peak power values that I have seen, although high, have been near redline with very steep power curves. Perhaps this is good in the 1/4, but it must translate to poor streetability.

 

If its more reliable than the jrsc, I would buy one immediately,

 

how would you define a blower that is more reliable?

 

and what are the gains??? gains/price ratio....?

 

A quality intercooler that comes with the kit, quality tuning system that comes with the kit and a/f ratios under 13:1

I was referring to reliability on the motor.

Now prelittle lude- how would you define a blower that is more reliable?

 

basically i was just wondering if you were implying that the JRSC blower itself was unreliable , or if you were asking aobut the reliabilty of the motor with this "custom" kit. in my opinion i think it is hard to build a reliable boosted setup with a reasonable amount of money. i remember reading a long time ago a couple of horror stories related the the JRSC breaking and jackson racing giving the people a run aorund. now i can't find/remember the exact story and im not saying JRSC haven't changed and their quality is bad (if it ever was) i was just wonder what you thought was a reliable kit

i think a good kit all depends on how much hp per dollar you get and how well the fuel delivery system is setup to compensate for boost. (sorry for a ll the spelling mistakes)

 

Your also going from the maintance free JRSC to something that needs its oil changed, why would you consider going with this kit when it's so peaky instead of just going turbo?

 

"in my opinion i think it is hard to build a reliable boosted setup with a reasonable amount of money."

agreed


Modified by skunk2lude01 at 8:57 PM 9/30/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChargedLude97 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your also going from the maintance free JRSC to something that needs its oil changed, why would you consider going with this kit when it's so peaky instead of just going turbo?</TD></TR></TABLE>

you "change its oil" when you change the motor oil same as a turbo setup , unless vortec has changes their superchargers.

the only way i can think of getting around the peakyness of the vortech charger is buythe following:

say you want to run 8 psi max. ideally you want to reach peak boost b4 peak rpm hence the immediate problem with the vortech blower is you can only boost your peak the fastest you spin it.

so i say if you were able to boost 13 pounds peak and find a way to bleed off that extra 5 pounds when you reach you peak rpm. this way you reach you desired peak boost (8psi) earlier and then hold it to redline by bleading off the extra. this is the only way we can kinf of "simulate" the way a trubo acts. it seems kinda dumb to me though because all that crank hp you use to make the 5 psi that you just gonna bleed off just got wasted. but then agian you don't have any lag . i guess if some one really wanted to do this you would have to find the best way to accuratly "bleed" excess boost, and when to start bleeding.

all in all i was thinking of this aobut 2 years ago, and after the math it just doesn't seem worth it, espcially since a blower is self is like 1500 if i remember.

 

im not bashing the jrsc, its the only one out for me to compare to/ what do you mean peaky? I dont know what exactly I want to do for my next step (I have all the boltons) and it would be nice for someone to come out with a kit, that could convince me not to build the engine.

 

It's simple if you'd like a turbo or supercharger ditch the ems that it comes with go with some 550 injectors and a hondata/aem and if you have a fairly knowlegable(sp?) tuner then you'll be fine.

 

the list of blown motors from the jrsc on po, is enough to steer me away.

 

If your going to lose sleep about it then just stay with your bolt-on's,it's that simple. There are plenty people doing fine without built motors with a good engine management and turners.

Edit: Sorry for going OT

 

who said anything about losing sleep and sorry mommy but you dont tell me what to do. Why not post something useful and quit whoring this thread.

 

It was a figure of speech.

Anyways back to the topic, I don't think much people would be interested once you fabricate everything the cost effiecience get a little throw to the side. Especially when the same or more power can be made with a turbo kit.

 

the problem is that you take the same risk with any boosted application, but the thing that makes one kit or one blower more relibale or better for others is the engine managment.

i don't know what the JRSC comes iht for Engine management but if you boost and tune well you should haev to many problems.

i don't see why people take the chance and boost 9 and 10 psi on stock motors and then when they blow up they get all pisssed and give alot of kits and companys bad names

if you don't want to spend the money run a junkyard setup around 5 -6.5 psi until you are ready to build your motor. or my only other advice is get a kit and get the best engnine managment you can get and tune it and then tune some more

 

im sure we could get 9-10psi easy out of it and honestly we wouldnt sell it for more then what they go for on the gsr and the si.. maybe even less if vortech helps us out... basically to get the kit to work as far as hardware goes its just brackets belts and piping .. you could do an optional air to air or air to water intercooler.. the other things that might make it more steep is different turbines and custom pulleys..

as far as reliability what are the concerns with this setup? is it effects on the motor? or effects on the kit? ..


one thing i would focus on is tuning it to build boost earlier

 

If you went for it I think it would be in your best interest to go for the intercooler whether it be the air to air or air to water, that's one of the biggest downsides to the JRSC.

 

effects on the motor

 

This would be easier to install right?

 

It's pretty simple, if you boost a stock motor be prepared to rebuild it. If you can't swing that idea, don't boost or rebuild it first. Your choice.

As for the Vortech, which would you rather have? A turbo, where you can help spool time, or the Vortech where it's fairly impossible to fix the spool time. Here's a comparo between the two on a Civic Si.

http://www.clubsi.com/dyno_vortech_2.shtml Vortech
http://www.clubsi.com/dyno_jrsc.shtml JRSC

Now, the JRSC reaches 100 whp at 4150 RPM while the Vortech reaches the same point at 5100 RPM. Now, while the Vortech has more ultimate HP I'd MUCH MUCH rather be driving the JRSC equipped car. As the Vortech doesn't really come to it's own until 6500+ RPM. It's sorta like setting your VTEC in our Prelude at 6500 RPM when redline is at 7400. There's no way to stay in the powerband, plus it's VERY hard to control if you're attempting to do part throttle turning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This would be easier to install right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah the install is pretty easy we just did one on an integra last weekend

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TimeRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for the Vortech, which would you rather have? A turbo, where you can help spool time, or the Vortech where it's fairly impossible to fix the spool time. </TD></TR></TABLE>
there is no spool time on the vortech blower , its belt driven, the faster you rev the motor the faster the blower spins which then makes your boost.

i agree with you that you need to build your motor, in the long run there is no way around it. and yes the vortech is much more peaky like everyone has said, you can only make max hp as fast as you spin the blower hence the highest horse power will be closer to redline, that is why i was saying that if some one foudn a way to reach the desired booost level sooner and then bleed of excess you could in theory move when you hit peak power down in the the rpm ban and then hold is until redline.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
there is no spool time on the vortech blower , its belt driven, the faster you rev the motor the faster the blower spins which then makes your boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You don't know how a centerfugal supercharger works do you? All it comprises of is a turbo that's driven by a belt and not exhaust gasses. It includes a gearset to help drive it faster but there is defineately spool or lag time which is shown on the dyno. Also one of the reasons why the Vortech kits are so peaky. The only good Vortech kits are on cars with 3+L of displacement and with a relatively low RPM limit and lots of torque. Then they can make the gearset tighter so the centerfugal supercharger spools up faster w/o eating itself. And you're not nagging for low end torque since the car had it already.