https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=624503

This was posted over on R forum. daymn! Go to page #2 and read the story. Relevant to RR AutoX because there might be a motor available?

Note to self - Falkens are not ideal for heavy rain

 

Here's a better thread.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=630741

I'm more than a little shocked that this is the result of someone going "slow".

 

9 of 10 times (a number pulled out of my *** but likely a valid one) single car accidents are driver error. I hate that the guy went through that whole deal, but I'm with Jeff. That car was moving pretty fast when it mated with its final destination, meaning that it was going pretty faster when he lost it.

I've got some experience driving on trips (ie: Interstate) in the rain on Azenis and have found them to be very adequate at reasonable speed. But the large tread blocks can lead to hydroplaning... thats why you slow down when the water starts standing.

Again, tough break and I hate it for him. Seems like a nice guy.
But folks need to learn from such things... Rain equals SLOW THE **** DOWN... ALOT.

Scott, who lived in Atlanta for 10 years and knows that every little rain storm GUARANTEED multiple accidents on the major interstates through town. Sad but true.

 

"I was just driving... in the slow lane in fact!!"

Riiight. Like, 100mph in the slow lane. No freaking way that damage is the result of a loss of traction at 65mph.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"I was just driving... in the slow lane in fact!!"

Riiight. Like, 100mph in the slow lane. No freaking way that damage is the result of a loss of traction at 65mph.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

The pics make it seem like the impact was at a greater speed than 60, which is the speed he indicated he was going most likely.

Very scary. If you drive like it is dry outside with Azenis, you WILL have trouble. If you show some common sense, they are fine, except when it is below 40 degrees.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No freaking way that damage is the result of a loss of traction at 65mph.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know... a direct hit on a concrete support would do some serious damage. I didn't mean to imply that this guy was doing anything wrong.

It's more that I just don't understand all the people who wreck during the rain. I've driven Azenis in a downpour quite a few times - and like Scott, I see a handfull of cars wreck on the highway here every time there's heavy rain.

 

that is why something like that is called an "accident" because it just doesn't happen all the time

 

This part worries me the most:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I hit a puddle of water and started to drift into the fast lane (left). Nothing surprising yet... been there done that... I'm thinking this has happen to me a THOUSAND times and my front wheel drive car will pull me out of it... </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

FWIW, govt crash tests are performed at 35MPH, and seriously screw a car up. It looks like he must have hit the bridge at 45 easy. Likely faster. Gotta wonder why he didn't hit the brakes to take as much speed off as he could...
"in a spin, both feet in."

 

"Riiight. Like, 100mph in the slow lane. No freaking way that damage is the result of a loss of traction at 65mph. K[/QUOTE]"

Just for the record.. a 50 mph impact into a fixed concrete object will easily wad up a car!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Riiight. Like, 100mph in the slow lane. No freaking way that damage is the result of a loss of traction at 65mph. K"

Just for the record.. a 50 mph impact into a fixed concrete object will easily wad up a car!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. 1987, a friend of mine is traveling in rain down Holden Rd. in Greensboro NC in the right hand lane in a Mustang. He spent 10 days in a coma from the impact with a light pole on the right hand side of the car. Fortunately he was ok. The light pole was positioned where the stick shift was. He was traveling a whopping 30 mph according to the police reports.

 

It's very good that the driver is doing ok. That was a strong hit and he is lucky he hit it with the back end of the car first so that a lot of the force from the impact was able to be absorbed in the car crumpling like it did.

Azenis are great rain tires at anything but low tread. They actually grip very well on wet pavement, until they aqua plane. The more grip a tire has before aqua planning, the more drastic the difference between grip and no grip will be (obviously). I found my old Azenis when they had very little tread left, to aqua plane very easily even at speeds of 45+ mph. This only happens once tread is quite low. That's the reason I bought new ones! Once tread is very low, these tires behave like pure slicks because it takes very little water to overrun the few and shallow tread grooves that the Azenis has in the first place. It was quite easy to break all four tires loose in the mid range of 3rd gear on the talon even at 45-50 mph. Not sure how much tread left the tires in this case had, but seeing first hand how Azenis with little tread can go from good grip to 0 grip in standing water, it’s very easy to understand what happened here. When tread on these tires are just about gone, the car can aqua plane for 3-4 full seconds at a time, and not just for brief moments like would be expected.

Again, the Azenis are GREAT rain tires (both grip and resistance to aqua planning) all the way down to low tread levels. Once at this point, they have a very hard time dissipating water at anything over 40-45 mph. While aqua planning, it does not matter whether you are driving a FWD, RWD or AWD car. There is no solution to stop aqua planning once it already happened other than to ride it out. During the moments that the car is actually floating, it will always do these two things: continue going straight (regardless of which way it is pointing), and continue to rotate on its axis at whatever its last angular velocity was at the moment it lost all grip. The more out of shape it is once grip is regained, the harder it will be to control it.

Glad to see the driver was ok. Everyone drive safe and check your tires. There are no tire walls, sand beaches, or corner workers on the streets.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FWIW, govt crash tests are performed at 35MPH, and seriously screw a car up. It looks like he must have hit the bridge at 45 easy. Likely faster. Gotta wonder why he didn't hit the brakes to take as much speed off as he could...
"in a spin, both feet in."</TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course it can only help to do this to some degree however small, but doing it while aqua planning or sliding down wet grass does next to nothing.

 

True, but any speed you can scrub off is good. Glad that he's OK...accidents suck.

 

I seem to be in the minority here. I concede to those with more direct experience but remain skeptical.

K

 

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that I thought he was driving like a jackass.
Just too fast for Azenis... in the rain... on the Interstate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"I was just driving... in the slow lane in fact!!"

Riiight. Like, 100mph in the slow lane. No freaking way that damage is the result of a loss of traction at 65mph.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

It doesn't look like he was going above the speed limit of the highway. Sure, he was obviously going too fast for the conditions, but it's alot easier to sit here looking at pics of his wreck and say he was stupid. Much harder when you're actually in the situation.

I've unexpectedly hit a REALLY deep puddle of water on only one side of the car before when it wasn't raining that hard(think crappy pavement and a groove from heavy trucks), and even at very low speeds the car will jerk hard to that side. At anything over 45-50mph you will easily go into a spin from this.

I rear ended an Accord at ~15mph and ended up totalling my '98 Integra(missed the front bumper support and just pushed the radiator back to the exhaust manifold). To be honest, these cars are built like tin cans compared to many other cars out there. Notice how easy your doors are to ding? That trend continues throughout the car's construction. If I had to peg it, I'd say he was going between 40 and 50mph when he hit the concrete support. If he was going over 60-70mph the car would most likely be half the size it is now, and he wouldn't be alive.

There's a large amount of kinetic energy to dissipate in a very short amount of time in a wreck, especially one with a stationary and nondeformable object.

 

Wow. He got lucky. A few inches to the left and he'd be gone.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fuminsho &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I glanced at my speedo when I hit the water and I was cruising at about 60-62 mph</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I think I'm gonna print out a few of those pictures to REMIND myself.......

SLOW THE F*CK down in the rain.

Someone was VERY lucky that day.

 

Wow! Very glad to hear he's alright, that could have been very messy :/

Odd though, I've driven with azenis on my daily driver for close to 2 years now and have never once gotten out of control. Even when they were down to almost no tread left. Nearly blinding rain, uneven surfaces, standing water, even snow...never lost it. I'm not all that good of a driver either...I guess its just lack of good judgement that causes these types of accidents.

Again, glad he made it out ok.

 

Judgement and luck...I rode around one winter on burned up Dunlop D60A2s and made it quite some time before my accident...

 

if you read the post, he said he glanced at the speedo right before he hit and he was doing sixty something. . .

On a side note, I've driven 150 miles in a downpour on azenis in a 2000lb car and when the trip was over, I couldn't praise them enough.

penn. turnpike/typhoon: 0
me/azenis: 1