anyone know a good place to buy Prelude type S pistons?? who has the best deal?
thks in advance

 

Dunno who has the best deals, but check out http://godspeed.hack.net , http://www.jdmhondaparts.com , http://www.jspec.com , ummm, damnit, there's a couple of other places, but I can't remember right now...sorry. But check those places out.

 

Or get some Arias or JE...

 

a lot cheaper to stay with oem though Todd...

 

But damn, as long as you're IN there....

 

Resleaving the block to accept those pistons is at least another 500$ right? Not including labor

 

thoose pistons are avaible in stardard H22a size or .025 overB ...
so no problem with that ..

---------

the type S that is ..

how much do the JE usually run for ? including rings??


[Modified by JinMTVT, 10:35 PM 8/27/2001]

 

and while your're in there might as well do the rods, sleeves, hell, balance and blueprint the whole thing.

 

Since we're talking about the bottom end, is it necessary to sleave the block, is it possible into running JE on a stock block? My resources says no, any one tried at least?

I'm in the process of building a 2nd block with rods,piston,balance and boring out for higher compression-I want to run at least 11.0:1 compression or higher if I can run on pump gas.

 

Hey man I'm from Kensington. What do you drive?

 

if u are redoing the complete bottom ..

u should get 2.3 block
that's about the only way to do some real NAD power with that enigne..

there is a company that sells a stroker kit to 2.5
it's in CA
don't remember the name... forspeed..gospeed . ..something like that

they sell it pretty cheap but u ahve to send them ur block empty and they resleeve it with bigger bore ( something like 90mm i think )
and 2.3 crank ..neway

2.5l is crazy torque if u ask me..can get easy 230-240 WHP from that engine with proper head and ecu

speevision guys with the prelude are using 2.3block with h22a head
and tunned cams, ecu and they get 230WHP@7800rpm
that's about 155LBS torque @ 7800RPM at the wheels..now that some serious power ahahw

i don't think that u need to resleeve the block is the JE pistons are the same size than the stock one ..

if thy are under 1mm of the stock 84mm bore ..u can only get it overbored..

 

you CANNOT bore out the h22 sleaves.. They are fiber reinforced and will burn, not bore.. The alloy's used in the sleaves are intirely different from those of aftermarket pistons.. Aftermarket pistons are too "hard" for the stock sleaves.. It sucks!

 

heheh, boring sleaves. that's silly.

 

How's it silly, it's beened done before. My machinist it can be done by installing steel sleaves....but he builds Big blocks ( I know Domestis car sucks, but you can always learn the true basics about power )

 

eh i meant was if you're going that far with the bottom end, might as well get some new stronger thinner slicker sleaves? i don't know anything about this stuff anyways.

 

..from what I know [and this is limited] you cannot use forged pistons on the stock h22 block, the rings will not seal! Also, blueprinting and balbancing of the crank and rotating assemblies is truley not neccessary, since the h22 is fitted w/ the second order balance system, neccessary for 4 cylinder engines > 2.0 L, is:

"two parallel shafts on either side of the crankshaft, 3.19 in. above its centerline. Driven by a toothed belt, the balance shafts rotate in opposite directions at twice engine speed. Eccentric weights built into the shafts generate inertial forces that counteract the second-order forces. The Honda system differs from other balancing systems in that it is designed to minimize vibration in the mid-to-high-rpm range, since this is the area in which the engine operates much of the time."

Which is similar to the added counter shafts on the type r crank, but you have to remind your self of the fact that the h22 has an undersquare bore/stroke ratio, so, consistent high revs are not a good idea, blanced or not, its just how it is.
So, stroking the motor to 2.5 WILL not be a good idea for street use, neither will roller rockers, for obvious reasons.

About the sleeves, Honda uses fiber reinforced sleeves, which are hybrid sleeves made of carbon fiber and aluminum oxide, which weigh less than cast iron liners and transfer heat more rapidly to water jackets, which results in longer engine life and better cooling!

Lastly, balancing the entire rotating assmbly would be useful if you changed the flywheel or altered some other part of the drivetrain, otherwise, ripping the block open just to perform this is a waste of time and money.

Point is, use the s pistons and stock honda rings and wrist pins, go 0.25 os if you want. You will gain 1 point in comprerssion w/ the pistons alone, add a Spoon headgasket and your up to 11.2:1, more than enough for the street, and a good start for a naturally aspirated motor! Leave you block untouched/harmed for as long as possible, once you open it up, it'll never be the same, better maybe, but not the same!

-On a side note domestic motors are horribly assmebled! Yes, they are! The clearances and weight differences of internal components of domestic motors are exponentially larger than those of Honda motors, honestly an early 90's d-series motor is leaps and bounds better built than the latest FACTORY Detorit muscle machine. If you notice, nearly ever domestic tuner always includes a complete blueprinting and balancing of the motor and the rotating assmblies therin!
Dometsic motors are truely slapped together, honestly, that is why 99.9% of tuned domestic motors are balanced and blueprinted, knife-edged, etc.! So, point being Honda motors, for the most part, do not need the same rebuild and treatment that most or all of the domestic motors require. For starters, Honda cranks dont pass through oil, so knife-edging to minimze sheering isn't needed, and thats one of many dis-similarities that you'll find.




[Modified by bb6h22a, 10:55 AM 8/28/2001]

 

Yeap, thats what I was trying to say!

One question will the .25 overbore pistons fit the stock sleeves ok?? Why would they sell stock size and overbore if not, I guess the bigger pistons are for cars with more miles??

 

..the os pistons could be used on motors that require a tighter seal. Also, most motors w/ >50k miles will need to be honed when the pistons are replaced, this also removes some of the sleeve material, allowing the use of slightly larger pistons.

 

My motor is going to be used for roadracing, and the rings are shot now.. I got 133k, you think the oversized would be better for my situation?

Obviously I am going to hone it.



[Modified by Honda318dx, 2:00 PM 8/28/2001]

 

hey man. sounds like you know your stuff. you don't mean domesticly manufactured honda motors are slapped together, do you? (err or maybe all honda motors are made in japan?)
anyways, i've asked this question before and never gotten a decent answer: is it possible to bulid a H22 with an ideal rod/stroke ratio withOUT decreasing it's displacment (Like the F20B from the Accord SiRT I think it is)?

oh, and another thing. is rod/stroke ratio usually related to bore/stroke ratio? for example, is an engine with a good rod/stroke ratio usually square or oversquare?

any info would be greatly appriciated.

 

Corey,
9 times out of 10 people recommend using the os pistons, simply for sealing purposes, honing or not. But, as w/ everything it boils down to a case by case basis. I would suggest you call AEBS here in San Diego and talk to them, they have assembled many an h22 and know what their doing.
The number is : 858 693 3200
Talk to Paulis


Dave,
No, you cannot attain a better rod ratio w/out altering either the rod lentgh or stroke. As in the Formula 3 engines used by Toda/Mugen which are 2.0 L h22's.

 

Heh yeah of course I know I'd have to change/machine lots of "stuff" to obtain ideal R/S ratio.
I'm talking ***** out, money is no object (well, within reason for a daily driver rice burner), all motor H22.
Decrasing the displacement would defeat the whole purpose of why I bought this motor.


[Modified by H22power, 2:27 PM 8/28/2001]

 

Thanks for the info!

 

Thats what I'M saying. lol

 

My main prolem is that my head been shaved close to .40 thous so Type S piston could throw me close to 11.6:1...I thought about the SPOON head gasket, my main question is 12.0:1 or a 11.8:1 compression is safe on a stock set up. I have no Fuel Pressure Regulator. I got a Ignition sytem and a V-AFC to to help tune my car.

..but of couse, you can't throw forged piston on a stock block thats way I want to bored out and sleave it torque will increase cause theirs more air pulling in and pushing it out

Balancer shaft only helps into to keep the motor from shaking and vibraiting. I already have a 10 pd. flywheel so by the time I have my rods and pistons and the blocked worked I'm definatley Balancing the bottom end, whats $100 more into balancing I would, plus I don't have balancer belt on. To more I'm feeing up some horsepower and getting rid some resistance espicially 9k is my goal 10k has been done before, but not 4 me unless I can still produce more power and a better trans. Hydralic clutch has always been a problem rather than cable clutch..

My theory is the lighter the better so lightened things up as crank there's less weight to hold you back, but not dramaticly. Also imagine if you can pull out the crank pressure during acceleration can also increase power and less restriction, even the weight of oil, try driving on 15w-40 then switch to 5w-30


[Modified by D.specs, 7:43 PM 8/29/2001]