I've watched you race at Woodburn this year (03) and your car flat out rips *** down the track (so you must know something about internals ), and you've helped me out before with a few questions that I've had and the advice worked so I thought I'd direct my question towards you. I've done a few searchs and the best answer to my question I've found so far I've quoted below. I was hoping you could clearify my wondering thoughts, and if it'll work for me or not for what I'm trying to accomplish.

I have a stock JDM ITR plus clutch, I/E in my 99 SI and I'm planning on upgrading the valvetrain a little this winter. I basically only drive my car once in a while, mostly on weekends and A LOT during drag season, though I'd like to still be able to make the 350ish mile road trips down to my parents and Woodburn area here and there, so my setup would have to be concidered a daily driven setup I suppose. I'd like to run possibly Jun3's or a cam that will give me maximum power at the track, yet still be good for the long road trips. As far as upgrading the valvetrain, I've been told to just use my outter ITR springs and upgrade with Portflow inners along with their Ti-Retainers. My goal is to rev and make power above 9K but no further than 9500 (I'll set fuel cut off at 9400-9500). Will the portflow inners and their ti-retainers be strong and safe enough to rev that high (9500ish) using say the Jun3 cams or would I have to upgrade more than that? Lastly, will the stock ITR block hold and be reliable revving to 9400-9500 constantly at the drag strip? Any advice on what cam/valvetrain to use to safely go to 94009500ish? I'm only interested in upgrading my head internals at this point (block internals will have to wait until maybe late summer '04). Thanks for reading.

GhettoRacer: yellow ITR outters springs + Portflow inners all around would work great with JUN3. spring rate wise it will handle no problem. if you're really concerned you need to check the install height...

* Also, I read a post about you upgrading to the JDM ITR final drive though never heard how it worked out for you. Did you acheive any improvements? I absolutely love my gearing....raps out faster than ****.


Modified by erics99si at 6:22 PM 9/23/2003


Modified by erics99si at 10:14 PM 9/23/2003

 

why didn't you just PM/email them?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by advanracing62 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why didn't you just PM/email them?</TD></TR></TABLE>
because idealy, if you have a question, chances are others are wondering the exact same thing so I thought I'd post it up for those that had the same question.

 

I'll take that.. but then why not address the ? to everyone? not just a particular person(s).... ahhh forget it.. who cares HT is full of rigamaroe lately!!!

 

kinda late for me to change the overall thread title now Plus I don't really have any idea's what to call the thread.. maybe "Portflow Valvetrain w/ Jun3's attempting 9500RPM?" would be my best guess.. I dunno..

 

How about "What valvetrain should I get for long trips and 9500 rips"

Then everyone would tell you to do a search etc....

It be easier to recomend soemthing if we knew a little more about your set-up.

 

I thought I mentioned my setup above... maybe not, well...

2000 JDM B18C-R (4.75 FD of course)
JDM OEM 4-1 2.5" Collector Header (came w/motor)
MSD SCI Ignition Box
AEM Polished Fuel Rail
AEM Polished Fuel Pressure Regulator
AEM Polished 3" R Spec. CAI
AEM Tru Time Cam Gears (both set at zero right now)
Exedy Cerametallic Clutch
Exedy Lightened Flyweel
Apex'i World Sport Stainless Exhaust
Carsound Testpipe
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
Hondata 3b Standalone


Basically the motor is completely stock except the clutch, flywheel, intake and Exhaust. I rev to about 85-8700 right now. Just looking to build up the head so I'll be able to make power past the my current limit up near 92-9500ish rpms (I'd like to be able to berry my 99-00 Si clusters tach )

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by erics99si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought I mentioned my setup above... maybe not, well...

2000 JDM B18C-R (4.75 FD of course)
JDM OEM 4-1 2.5" Collector Header (came w/motor)
MSD SCI Ignition Box
AEM Polished Fuel Rail
AEM Polished Fuel Pressure Regulator
AEM Polished 3" R Spec. CAI
AEM Tru Time Cam Gears (both set at zero right now)
Exedy Cerametallic Clutch
Exedy Lightened Flyweel
Apex'i World Sport Stainless Exhaust
Carsound Testpipe
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
Hondata 3b Standalone


Basically the motor is completely stock except the clutch, flywheel, intake and Exhaust. I rev to about 85-8700 right now. Just looking to build up the head so I'll be able to make power past the my current limit up near 92-9500ish rpms (I'd like to be able to berry my 99-00 Si clusters tach )
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eric,
You rev to 8500-8700 on a stock ITR head? I think it's a little risky. Just be careful. I have an ITR head, and when I spoke to Tom at Port Flow, and Sparks Racing they said to change the inner valve spring, and go with Titanium retainers. With that setup you can rev up to 9000 rpms (maybe more) with no problems but with stock cams. I just asked about reving to 9000rpms and they said that was ok. I don't think that will hold up with Jun III cams reving to 9500rpms. Just call Tom at Port flow and talk to him... Good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboChrgd_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Eric,
You rev to 8500-8700 on a stock ITR head? I think it's a little risky. Just be careful. I have an ITR head, and when I spoke to Tom at Port Flow, and Sparks Racing they said to change the inner valve spring, and go with Titanium retainers. With that setup you can rev up to 9000 rpms (maybe more) with no problems but with stock cams. I just asked about reving to 9000rpms and they said that was ok. I don't think that will hold up with Jun III cams reving to 9500rpms. Just call Tom at Port flow and talk to him... Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well my fuel cut is set at 86-8700ish rpm's so I shift at 8500 on my 99 SI cluster, but it'll fuel cut shortly after the 8500 mark. I had Crescent (most know him as CSPEED) reprogram my hondata for me and I trust his judgement. I've been told the JDM ITR's stock redline is 8700 with fuel cut at 8900 but I haven't found 110% possitive proof of that so I just shift at 8500 for now and have been since I installed the motor. Do you have a number for the Portflow guy... I was planning on doing the portflow inner springs and portflow ti-retainers now until I get the Jun3 cams, though I don't wanna get just the valve springs and retainers yet (then having to get different ones later on) unless they'll work with the cams that I'm thinking about getting. From what I've researched, the portflow inner springs and ti-retainers will work just fine for the Jun3's up to 9000, but I'm curious about the extra 500 R's that I'm trying to hit as well. Any other info on this topic will be greatfully appreciated. Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboChrgd_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Eric,
You rev to 8500-8700 on a stock ITR head? I think it's a little risky. Just be careful. I have an ITR head, and when I spoke to Tom at Port Flow, and Sparks Racing they said to change the inner valve spring, and go with Titanium retainers. With that setup you can rev up to 9000 rpms (maybe more) with no problems but with stock cams. I just asked about reving to 9000rpms and they said that was ok. I don't think that will hold up with Jun III cams reving to 9500rpms. Just call Tom at Port flow and talk to him... Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

9000 rpm with a stock type r head is not risky. The stock redline is 9000.

 

Eric here is the contact info. for Port flow
Port Flow Design
1583 w. 259th st.
Harbor City, Ca. 90710
http://www.portflow.com

310-257-0351

 

The redline on a stock USDM ITR head is 8400 isn't it? Where did you get 9000? Now you have me questioning myself.

 

well my b16b civic type r. Same head as jdm type r. The red line on that is 9000 not sure about usdm. I think its the same head. Ive never had problems revving to 9000.

 

Here is my understanding on the ITR motors

USDM: Redline 8400 - Fuel Cut 8600
JDM: Redline 8700 - Fuel Cut 8900
(I have heard the 9000 redline before as well but on the CTR motors, though ITR and CTR motors have almost identical heads so I'd assume the 00-01 ITR's could rev to 8900-9000 safely as well)


Anyhow, back to my origional question regarding what cams and valvetrain I should use to rev to 9500ish. I've been researching the hell outta this idea all morning and I've came up with a few other questions.

As far as where I've gathered my information:
Jun3 Camshafts: http://www.realfast.com.sg/Use...s.htm
Valvetrain: http://www.importreview.com/re....html

1) I pretty much understand everything that the Jun3 link says except for the top part where its talking about "Profile #1, 2, 3". What profile is the best, and whats the difference between the three profiles? I'm guessing the higher number 76(304)-12.0 means the biggest cam but what is that number "76" stand for? 76(304)-12.0 stands for the duration and the 76(304)-12.0 stands for the Spring Pressure lift in MM.

2) Looking over the Valvesprings link, I'm debating on using either JUN or Portflow with Jun3 cams. My question regarding springs is that I see at 12mm of lift the Jun valvesprings hold 195 lbs as do the Portflows. Though if you look at the 12.5mm of lift the JUN say "bind" and the Portflows state 204 lbs. In conclusion since the Jun link says the Jun3's high-cam profile has a max valve lift of 12.0mm and a duration of 304 degrees, wouldn't the Portflow be a better valvetrain to use since it has the highest number?

3) On the Valvespring link, towards the bottom of the page under the spring pressure values they talk about "**1.340 installed height" for the JUN valvesprings and "**1.320 installed height" for the Portflow valvesprings. What exactly does that mean? Am I going to have any clearance problems if I install say:

JUN3 Camshafts & Cam Gears
JUN inner/outter Valvesprings (or) Portflow inner/outter Valvesprings
Skunk2 (or) Portflow Ti-Retainers

I plan on leaving the block completely stock and untouched for now. I'd keep the ITR valves that are in the head now, and would only upgrade the head with the above cams/springs/retainers that I've mentioned....maybe put a thinner head gasket to raise compression a tad....other than that, I'm only planning on doing cams and valvetrain at this point.

 

^ bump ^

 

yeah your right on the B16b (civic type R) they do rev that high, but I believe the CTR cams are more aggresive then the Type R.

 

I would use the Jun springs, and retainers. I know they cost more, but I've heard people post here on Honda-tech different combinations that they've used and things have gone bad... I know there are many people where everything is fine. I guess it just depends on who does the work... I can't answer your recent post so good luck...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboChrgd_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah your right on the B16b (civic type R) they do rev that high, but I believe the CTR cams are more aggresive then the Type R.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The older year (before 2000) ITR "intake" cam (Intake Duration - 240) was a little bit milder than the CTR (Intake Duration - 243), however the 00-01 ITR cams are both identical to the CTR cams.... As well as the internal valvetrain.

 

inlinefour says if I decide on JUN valvesprings I'll want to get Skunk2 Ti-Retainers because they fit better than the JUN retainers (weird..seems like JUN would make all their parts fit perfect... shrug). They sell a JUN Camshaft Complete Kit that comes with the JUN3's, JUN Valvetrain, Skunk2 Ti-Retainers for $1500.00

Then again, noone has answered my previous post yet, so I think as for now that the Portflow valve springs are stronger and would prolly be better than the JUN since the spring rate lbs is a higher number.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by erics99si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The older year (before 2000) ITR "intake" cam (Intake Duration - 240) was a little bit milder than the CTR (Intake Duration - 243), however the 00-01 ITR cams are both identical to the CTR cams.... As well as the internal valvetrain. </TD></TR></TABLE>

:sigh: I swear I've posted this a million times. The 97-98 USDM ITR cam is not 240 duration on the intake cam they are less. All the JDM ITR intake cam is 240 duration. USDM 00-01 ITR intake cam is 240 duration. CTR intake cam is 243 on all of them. This is all done @ 1mm lift.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by erics99si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1) I pretty much understand everything that the Jun3 link says except for the top part where its talking about "Profile #1, 2, 3". What profile is the best, and whats the difference between the three profiles? I'm guessing the higher number 76(304)-12.0 means the biggest cam but what is that number "76" stand for? 76(304)-12.0 stands for the duration and the 76(304)-12.0 stands for the Spring Pressure lift in MM. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well from reading other posts and still continuing to research I've figured out that the 3 profiles are the three different lobes on the cams... still wondering what the "76" or the first number stands for though. example "76(304)-12.0"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

:sigh: I swear I've posted this a million times. The 97-98 USDM ITR cam is not 240 duration on the intake cam they are less. All the JDM ITR intake cam is 240 duration. USDM 00-01 ITR intake cam is 240 duration. CTR intake cam is 243 on all of them. This is all done @ 1mm lift. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure your info is wrong... ITR thru 1999 Spec have the 240 duration.

Following Cams Measured at 1mm of lift:
Integra Type-R(Through 1999 Spec)
Int-240 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as $500.00 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.

Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec)
Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as $550.00 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.

Source:
http://forums.clubsi.com/showf...art=1

 

Have you measure personally? Or do you get all your info from Club Si.com? The CTR and ITR exhaust cams are all the same part number. However the CTR intake cams uses a totally differn't part number. Why? Because it's differn't. No stock ITR cam has 243 duration. The CTR intake does that's it. Both same lift. I don't know many times it's been said or proven but face it the CTR intake cam is differnt. Not by much true, but it is. Is it a worthy upgrade if you already have ITR cams? Not unless it's free.

 

worthey opinion...... thanks for the input

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by erics99si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As far as where I've gathered my information:
Jun3 Camshafts: http://www.realfast.com.sg/Use...s.htm
Valvetrain: http://www.importreview.com/re....html

1) I pretty much understand everything that the Jun3 link says except for the top part where its talking about "Profile #1, 2, 3". What profile is the best, and whats the difference between the three profiles? I'm guessing the higher number 76(304)-12.0 means the biggest cam but what is that number "76" stand for? 76(304)-12.0 stands for the duration and the 76(304)-12.0 stands for the Spring Pressure lift in MM.

2) Looking over the Valvesprings link, I'm debating on using either JUN or Portflow with Jun3 cams. My question regarding springs is that I see at 12mm of lift the Jun valvesprings hold 195 lbs as do the Portflows. Though if you look at the 12.5mm of lift the JUN say "bind" and the Portflows state 204 lbs. In conclusion since the Jun link says the Jun3's high-cam profile has a max valve lift of 12.0mm and a duration of 304 degrees, wouldn't the Portflow be a better valvetrain to use since it has the highest number?

3) On the Valvespring link, towards the bottom of the page under the spring pressure values they talk about "**1.340 installed height" for the JUN valvesprings and "**1.320 installed height" for the Portflow valvesprings. What exactly does that mean? Am I going to have any clearance problems if I install say:

JUN3 Camshafts & Cam Gears
JUN inner/outter Valvesprings (or) Portflow inner/outter Valvesprings
Skunk2 (or) Portflow Ti-Retainers

I plan on leaving the block completely stock and untouched for now. I'd keep the ITR valves that are in the head now, and would only upgrade the head with the above cams/springs/retainers that I've mentioned....maybe put a thinner head gasket to raise compression a tad....other than that, I'm only planning on doing cams and valvetrain at this point.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

So is upgrading my valvetrain with Portflow/JUN springs and Ti-Retainers all I need to be able to safely rev and make power to 9500? Will revving this high cause me to spin any rod bearings or do any other damage? Still stuck on my above questions #2, #3 still if anyone could answer those for me.





Modified by erics99si at 1:32 PM 9/24/2003

 

u got lots of good questions in the post. im all for JUN cams. they have been ultra reliable for me and have made decent power on a motor that has been untuned (no dyno near me). also my JUN cams were in my GSR motor b4 the build up of the motor and were daily driven. at idle most ppl would think they were bone stock cams.
over this winter though when i finally get my head ported im switching back to stock retainers. lots of ppl have seen it but some dont know the titanium retainers are a "wear" item. since ive had mine for about 3 yrs now its time to replace them. its not hard to change them but $300 for retainers every other yr isnt an expense i want to incure when i could use stock retainers and have no worries at all.
i really dont think u can go wrong with JUN3 cams or Skunk stage 2s. both make great power and the cams profiles are very close. jeff has also posted results from back to back testing sessions on his site importreview.com. i also think both will work with the 11.1:1 compression the JDMITR comes with pretty well.
lastly to address which valve springs to use. ive heard several things about valve springs but im goin to have mine tested to make sure they havent lost pressure after all the abuse they have seen. ive heard about the same thing u have, portflow springs, JUN springs and TODA springs all work. u could use any one of those but i prefer to use springs made by the same manufacturer as the cams. they all work though, so if u want to save a bit of cash theres nothin wrong with the portflows.