Let's face it...the 92dB sound limit sucks. What should I do to be able to do some lapping days? I have a B18cR with cams/headwork, J's intake, SMS header, no cat and magnaflow muffler. What do you guys think? Should I risk it and make an exhaust turndown to trick the sound meter?

 

even if you run stock air box + cat you will probably still be over the limit. do whatever you need to, if you want to get on the LS... after all it is a very special place. nothing is worse than being asked to stop driving because of sound violation (esp. if it is close).

 

I am NOT picking on you but I will use this as an excuse to mention that I think most racing cars are louder than they need to be. If everyone had to meet a much lower sound limit, we'd all be in the same boat and we might not have to fight the fights like the one that killed the proposed track outside of Richmond. Just a thought.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am NOT picking on you but I will use this as an excuse to mention that I think most racing cars are louder than they need to be. If everyone had to meet a much lower sound limit, we'd all be in the same boat and we might not have to fight the fights like the one that killed the proposed track outside of Richmond. Just a thought.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yah, I'd love to see a magnaflow hanging off the back of an f1, that would be so cool! C'mon, race cars too loud? What's next, hit a beautiful woman with an egg, because she's too attractive? The real problem with LS is that the residents surrounding LS are whiners, plain and simple. Even when the ALMS cars and Champ cars run there, it's not as audible as purveyed, and is MUCH quieter than the fighter jets that come screaming by my office every 30 minutes , everyday. Don't see much in the way of ordinances prohibiting that... race cars too loud. Now I have heard it all. I'm picking a bone with you Kirk, but when the world finally becomes so letigious that the audible volume of a racecar is to be at a mandated level, then the world should just stop racing. Lastly, LS was where it is long before many of the (so annoyingly vocal) residents , and community boards. Simple common sens would dictate that , if you want to live somewhere quiet enough to hear a pin drop, don't live nearby a racetrack.

Regarding the LS sound limit, when I ran there, they had TWO sound stations setup (one on the front straight, and one on the straight leading up to the corkscrew) I have a 99 prelude, stock aribox, 5 year old greddy sp exh and k&n drop in filter. I never lifted , and was hitting an average of 89dB all day. Alot of people add resonators, run baffled mufflers , and/or make exh. downturns. Some cars one add-on will quiet it down enough, other you've got to use a combination. Either way, take it on the chin, neuter your car for the day, and enjoy becuase in CA there's no finer racetrack.




Modified by bb6h22a at 5:36 PM 9/22/2003

 

i agree with you but.... 92db for the race track is rediculous; i can see if it was 100 db or something. the street legal limit is 95 db isn't it?

 

Go buy an exhaust elbow. Clamp it onto your tip. Aim it to the left. This worked for a Devek 928 that was just insanely loud at one event I attended. While I think the residents around Laguna Seca are a bit silly for moving in and then complaining, I don't see why cars need to be so darn loud, either. 92 decibels is plenty of noise to make my brain numb after a few laps.
-Adam

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yah, I'd love to see a magnaflow hanging off the back of an f1, that would be so cool! C'mon, race cars too loud? What's next, hit a beautiful woman with an egg, because she's too attractive? The real problem with LS is that the residents surrounding LS are whiners, plain and simple. Even when the ALMS cars and Champ cars run there, it's not as audible as purveyed, and is MUCH quieter than the fighter jets that come screaming by my office every 30 minutes , everyday. Don't see much in the way of ordinances prohibiting that... race cars too loud. Now I have heard it all. I'm picking a bone with you Kirk, but when the world finally becomes so letigious that the audible volume of a racecar is to be at a mandated level, then the world should just stop racing. Lastly, LS was where it is long before many of the (so annoyingly vocal) residents , and community boards. Simple common sens would dictate that , if you want to live somewhere quiet enough to hear a pin drop, don't live nearby a racetrack.

Regarding the LS sound limit, when I ran there, they had TWO sound stations setup (one on the front straight, and one on the straight leading up to the corkscrew) I have a 99 prelude, stock aribox, 5 year old greddy sp exh and k&n drop in filter. I never lifted , and was hitting an average of 89dB all day. Alot of people add resonators, run baffled mufflers , and/or make exh. downturns. Some cars one add-on will quiet it down enough, other you've got to use a combination. Either way, take it on the chin, neuter your car for the day, and enjoy becuase in CA there's no finer racetrack.


Modified by bb6h22a at 5:36 PM 9/22/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with some of what you said, but you can't possibly expect the 99.99% of the world that doesn't race to just put up with a lot of noise so the racing minority can get their jollies. Yes it's stupid to build a house on the infield of a racetrack and then say it's too loud, but if it's possible to have just as much fun on the track and **** fewer people off, thereby giving us more freedom to race... what's the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mityVR6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go buy an exhaust elbow. Clamp it onto your tip. Aim it to the left. </TD></TR></TABLE>just make sure that the 'roaming' db person is not out on the prowl checking sound on drivers left.

 

I love my Magnaflow but it does not quiet my Accord much. How about buying a Supertrapp and clamping it to your tip or the elbow you should buy.

Don't forget to quiet the intake. Maybe go back to stock or wrap your intake pipe and make sure that the sound meter can't hear (see) your air filter.

 

So I am to believe that the Speed GT and ALMS cars are quieter then 92db?

I find that hard to believe considering the corvette made my ears pop.

I think Laguna Seca is what is keeping Supertraps in business. I typically see a lot of those clamped onto tailpipes there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tonyXcom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So I am to believe that the Speed GT and ALMS cars are quieter then 92db?

I find that hard to believe considering the corvette made my ears pop.

I think Laguna Seca is what is keeping Supertraps in business. I typically see a lot of those clamped onto tailpipes there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, they're not... louder still than the 'vettes are the panoz lmp cars. Good God those things rumble! During the "pro" events, the residents don't seem to car --at least those that whine about "noise"-- it's just when you want to rent the track for private events, that's when the enforce the sound limit.

 

Or maybe during the pro races they can afford to pay any penalties they might get for exceeding the sound limit.

 

L.S. has certain weekends when there is no db limit.

-motorcycle races
-Speed GT
-etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">L.S. has certain weekends when there is no db limit.

-motorcycle races
-Speed GT
-etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because to get a "no limit" you have to pay big bucks.

I was talking with Gary Sheehan about it when he was at Summit last year. Of course USTCC could'nt pay off the rich ****** that live around LS, so they had the limit.
They were welding all kinds of elbows and kinks into the exhaust, and even took steel wool brillo pads and welded them into the muffler with some metal mesh. Resulted in a melted bumper, taillight and some cool fireworks though!

 

So which would we rather have had - (a) a new racing facility within a few minutes of Richmond, VA with an 80db sound limit or (b) no facility in the same location? We'd still have the option of a DC Grand Prix if the cars were quiet.

I for one was GLAD when SCCA imposed sound limits back in the early '80s. A half day of unmuffled C Prod RX7s really beat the crap out of a person's brain but that's about me. The racing world has to live in the real world - like it or not - and there is just no material reason that sound levels couldn't be lower.

Every racing facility in the US has to negotiate use agreements with the communities around them, regardless of whether they are private concerns (like most tracks) or municipal operations (like Portland, that is technically a city park). Those agreements include a specific number of days exemptions from sound limits imposed by law, recognizing that the positive financial impact from major events is a "public good," balanced against the negative impact of noise on the community.

Blaming rich ****** completely misses the point, unless you like the idea of closing current tracks and going to the expense of building new ones - constantly - farther and farther from where you all like to live.

Kirk

(who is going to set up his speakers in front of your house and blow polka music into your bedroom all night, after you get back from your next race road trip)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Blaming rich ****** completely misses the point</TD></TR></TABLE>the ****** will get blamed if they choose to move near/next to a track and then complain.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Blaming rich ****** completely misses the point, unless you like the idea of closing current tracks and going to the expense of building new ones - constantly - farther and farther from where you all like to live.

Kirk

</TD></TR></TABLE>
The difference, Kirk, is that these people decided to move in and form these upper class communities after the racetrack had already been there.
oooh look at that pretty race track, lets move right next door. There wont be much sound or anything!

 

...and they do that because the tracks that used to be WTF out in the boonies are now where communities are growing. Westwood used to be so far out in the forest, bears were a real threat in the paddock - now it's a suburb of Vancouver and the track is gonzo. Laguna was in a place so dead, the US military used it as a bombing range - now it's got subdivisions right up to its front door.

Don't get me wrong - I WISH that this weren't the case but we can either play nice or get our game sent elsewhere when the world catches up with our fun.

K

 

Im not familiar enough with California and the areas surrounding LS, but from what people who are tell me, the developments around the racetrack are not a result of urban sprawl, they are upper class communities attracted by the prestige of a world class racetrack. Of course dealing with a little noise of said racetrack is below them.

 

More and more race tracks are imposing sound limits or are going to. We have a new track being constructed (Calabogie, Ontario) designed by the same guy who designed Beaver Run and Barber Motorsports park. I drove the track in an SUV (still gravel). It looks like a fabulous track, but many residents are trying to block it because of noise potential. I want a new first class track much more than I want a car that makes noise for no good reason. Evrybody is just going to have to get used to it if you want to track your car. Stealth can be cool too!

 

be prepared to get owned by the "MEATBALL" flagg!1 it owned and owned me 14 times i two days.....even with silencer, baffling, steelwooland a deflector....i hit 97 db's with silencer in!!! i finally had to just take that hill from 5-6 in 5th gear and lifting going up the hill....and i was still able to manage to get 1:54 on street tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not familiar enough with California and the areas surrounding LS, but from what people who are tell me, the developments around the racetrack are not a result of urban sprawl, they are upper class communities attracted by the prestige of a world class racetrack. Of course dealing with a little noise of said racetrack is below them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is true.

LS , itself, is OUTSIDE of monterey, pacific grove, and nowhere near the other tourist attraction (cannery row, pebble beach, etc.), and more densly populated regions. The developments that currently occupy the surrounding area are in fact 12,000 sq. ft. homes in gated communites built upon golf course developments, etc. So, anyone who lives within earshot of the track NOW moved there with full prior knowledge of the racetrack, and it's associated "pollution." This isn't to say all the residents abhore the track, and complain about the noise, I know a family that's building a home near LS, and won't mind the noise at all. However, it's the remaining population of whiners that get on the city council, and try and mute a race track. That's idiotic.

Kirk, again, it's not to you, but it's that I can't bear to fathom a world so letigious that it tries to impose sound restrictions on race tracks; developers, racers and enthusiasts alike already drive for hours and hours to enjoy their sport, it would be beyond insulting to then further restrict the sport. This is akin to limitng methane production at horseraces; what're you going to do, cork the horses ***??

And, I disagree, racing may exist in a "real world" but it never co-habitates in the "real world," and that's what's kept it the same all these years. It hasn't been dilluted by the deplorable contradictions that seem to run "the real world." Racing is the purest form of baseless waste... waste of resources, lives and money, but it's alluring in it's own right, and shouldn't need to default to motions of appeasement to an audience of igonrant misanthropes that have no better legacy to leave the world than a paper trail of flagrent attempts to distort it. The point is (and it does go beyond the topic at hand); if you hear of someone trying to restrict the noise of a racetrack lobby against them, don't appease them. Soon after they restrict the noise, it'll then be the durations allowed for operation, then it'll be legistlation against the "copious" point-source pollution caused by race cars (running on racetracks) without emissions equipment, and someday... racing will be turned into some aftifactual exhibit at your local natural history museum... "the years of yore" because those leading the "noise" campaigns now, will make impossible the possibility of "profit" from building, renting, using and maintaining a racetrack , and then no one will want to build better, greater and more challenging facilities.

As far as I'm concerned noise to a racecar is just as much an inalianable right as free speech is to an individual.


Modified by bb6h22a at 3:29 PM 9/23/2003


Modified by bb6h22a at 7:36 PM 9/23/2003

 

The same sort of issues are befalling the new track in the Phoenix, AZ area as well. Despite being located directly in the takeoff flight path of an airbase, residents who have built homes near the track since its construction are complaining about the noise - never mind the F15 flying over your head, that Formula Ford is too loud!!!

Ah well, I have more fun at Thunderhill anyways. Any time a cold air intake can put me over the sound limit on an otherwise stock engine, I have to think twice about going back to LS. Maybe we should organize a drive of street legal cars through the surrounding residential areas...just kidding.

C_A_T

 

For those who continue to wonder what is right for the racing community-there will be more than one position. I live 1 hour from BeaveRun and our CRX was built to be nearly "street legal" with the race exhaust complying loosely with PA law. The stock system is simply too restrictive. So Meineke built me something that is under 95 dB at 50 feet but still race oriented. It can be done. I will be the first to admit that you hear the car long before you see it now &lt;G&gt;. Watkins Glen may also wind up with sound control-and the place is definitely out in the sticks. Pocono will probably never have a limit as most of the land around it is in private hands for the long term.
The problem with sound control began during the demise of Marlboro-still swampy but subdivided. Summit Point is not heavily populated- but sprawl will eventually get there. LS is a great track and should be designated a "historic landmark" and protected from those who are encroaching on its perimeter.
I see no reason to run wide open exhausts. Nor do I find a compelling reason to silence them to the point that our hobby is negatively impacted. My car is complete with 2 mufflers following a cat. My neighbor has a "fart can" exhaust that is nearly as loud under load-that too is wrong.
Accept these ramblings for what they are. None of us wants to be placed in a position where our personal resources are spent on long trips for a short day at the track. I will tow to Summit, because it is a fine place. The Glen and Pocono are equally fun for me. I will tow to VIR because it too offers a challenge. If any of these tracks wants to dB me-fine. Make the number one that everyone can comfortably meet without serious decrease in power. I used to drive my TR-3 to Marlboro and back into the city (DC) with a minimal exhaust-wouldn't dare today.

To answer the original question-look at the setup and find something that is free flowing with a dB drop. Some suggested that I use 2 mufflers end to end and that is what we did. They replace the stock resonator and muffler and are located under the tunnel. The CAT is a CATCO 2.5" universal unit with flanges to match my DC header and the following components. The turndown is just in front of the right rear trailing arm. Everything is 2.5" in size. If you are really concerned a free call to Dynomax and Magnaflow is in order. As to intake noise-you can reduce it a bit. I have a short ram and it is not really causing any problem. If the rules permit, it is possible to use a CAI, which is supposed to be a bit quieter.

 

Just for reference, there have been occasions when a stock exhausted, but CAI equipped S2000 has been flagged at LS. Doesn't happen all the time (probably only when its cooler), but that's how borderline the limits are.

C_A_T