Ok, first of all i searched form the answers here and couldn't find them. If they are in fact on here then I am really sorry for taking up your time.

OOOOkay.. I had a turbo DSM when I first started getting into cars, and I have been roaming around on DSMtalk.com for over a year. So I do know some about turbocharging. However, obviously DSM's come from the factory turbo'd (GS-t, GSX.. duh) and Honda's don't, so I am curious about a few things, some about turbocharging in general, some specific to honda.

I don't understand how to control the amount of boost from the turbo on a honda, i know what the wastegate does, but I don't understand how you control it. I don't know what "BAR" is on a wastegate, if I understand correctly, the BAR is a set spring rate set at a certain PSI. Are these "BAR" things interchangable? what if I want to run more than one set PSI of boost? I'm thinking 7-8 psi for daily driving, 15+ psi for the track and racing on a built b16/ZC (not sure which yet, if I even do any of this...). So would I buy a wastegate that is has the BAR that keeps it at around 15 psi? But wouldn't that keep the boost that high always? How do I get it down to 7-8?

I would want an electric boost controller so I could set the boost to whatever I want (GReddy Profec-B probably). How does this control the wastegate...? it DOES control the wastegate right?

How much boost is safe on a b16 with eagle pistons, 9.0 c/r, and crower rods? What about a ZC with the same mods?

I understand that the stock honda injectors on a b16/ZC can handle up to around 5 psi? So i think i should get new injectors, especially if i'm running upwards of 15 psi, but how big? on a DSM 550cc-650cc is sufficient, so maybe 550cc on the smaller honda engine? I will probably need a bigger fuel pump too.. right? how big?

I plan on eventually getting the Zdyne silver ecu, gold if i can afford it, but until then, I have read that you have to "trick" the ecu into not knowing about the boost.. is this correct? Something about check valves? what do they do?

What should i use to control the fuel system? does the Zdyne able to control the fuel sufficiantly? Should I buy an Apex'i AVC-R if I don't want to keep a laptop in my car all the time, or if i get the silver Zdyne rather than the Gold?

I know that it would probably take a while to answer all these questions, so if you would just give me a link to a website that has all these answers....

Thanks alot guys!



Modified by GunnaGetOne at 11:49 AM 9/12/2003

 

bar= 14.7 psi, thats all it means. bar is a mesurment like psi.. get it ?

Boost is regulated the same way on any turbo car, the wastegate. Now you can have a boost controller that manipulates when the wg gets its signall.

Rob

 

bump for some very good questions that need answering.

 

Yeah bar is only a measurement of boost. As for your wastegate question dont get a 15 psi spring unless you want that to be the lowest amount of boost you run. You can turn in up with boost controller, but you cant backtrac.

My suggestion get a .5 bar spring and then you'll have your boost controller ot turn it up. 15 psi may be pushing it with stock sleeves, but If properly tuned then that motor should hold 15 psi, but fuel is very important. You will need to get bigger injectors though and a walbro 255 hp fuel pump. Research and see what fuel management system you want to go with/suits your budget/tuner availability and then go from thier.

 

What a wastegate does is open when it sees a certain amount of boost. So it quits giving the car boost. What a boost controller does is limit that amount of air, so that the turbo gives you more boost. You cant go down on a boost controller. Only up. So if 8psi is your minimum. Get an 8psi spring.

 

BAR is the metric measurement of PSI. As stated, 1 BAR is 14.7 PSI, or 1 Atmosphere as you may read in some books. Wastegates use springs to determine the PSI. You can get a wastegate that has a .5 BAR spring (7.3 PSI) an then use a boost controller to up the boost from there. You cannot, however, use a boost controller to drop the boost any lower than the spring in the wastegate will allow.

Thats hard to answer. You have to keep in mind certain things:

1.) 10 PSI on a small turbo is not the same as 10PSI on a large turbo. I know know.. its kinda confusing. What you need to know is that each turbo has different flow, or CFM (cubic feet per minute). Think of two pipes, u can put 10PSI of pressure into a small pipe (the small turbo) and 10PSI into a large pipe (the big turbo) and the larger one will have more flow.

2.) Fuel and engine management will be the other desiding factor. Stoopid and tony1 (do some searches on posts by them) have managed to get some insane numbers from STOCK bottom end motors that are dependable with excellent tuning. The octane of the fuel u decide to run will also be in this category.

This all depends on how much power you plan on making. DSM 450cc's will work in a honda motor, as well as the Lancer EVO VIII 560cc's. A walboro or simalar pump running about 255 LPH should be suffiecent.

The stock honda map sensor is the problem. I can only "read" up to about 11 psi before it throws a check engine light (CEL). There are many ways to do this, the "check valve" method is not something i personally reccomend. Getting a replacement MAP sensor (GM 3 BAR) is the right way to do it. Do a search on that.

The ZDyne should be enough, u will not need the AFC to control fuel with it. I dont know enough about ZDyne to help u out with which one to pick.

Another thing.. THANK YOU for taking the time to search for your answers first, and posting some great questions. I only hope I was able to point u in the right direction, and I am sure the more knowledgable people on this board will pitch in too

 

good post. And good replies!

As a boost noob, I'd like to thank the guys with the knowledge for enlighten me and my fellow "boost knowledge" handicaps

 

Man this guy just asked what it took me 6 months of reading to learn! Not fair!

Good Info

 

I wanted to thank people for good answer's, some of these question's I didn't know and couldn't find them.

Does anyone know where to get some good basic info on Turbo's and parts...a website, link or book? Just curious.

Thanxs again

 

A couple more n00b questions: how does the boost controller limit the boost the wastegate sees? If the w/g is plumbed into the exhaust mani and nothing can (or should) go in between the two, I don't see how it can be limited... obviously I don't know how a wastegate works internally...

If you can use the boost controller to set the boost, why bother offering higher bar springs? Why have a 40mm High Pressure TiAL wastegate rather than just a TiAL normal wastegate and a 0.5bar spring?

I also am learning before going turbo... I've been lurking around these forums for about 2 months now...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A couple more n00b questions: how does the boost controller limit the boost the wastegate sees? If the w/g is plumbed into the exhaust mani and nothing can (or should) go in between the two, I don't see how it can be limited... obviously I don't know how a wastegate works internally...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

good question, the wastegate is manipulated by the spring, so how does it physically control that? "Delay the signal" is what I read above, doesnt make any sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A couple more n00b questions: how does the boost controller limit the boost the wastegate sees? If the w/g is plumbed into the exhaust mani and nothing can (or should) go in between the two, I don't see how it can be limited... obviously I don't know how a wastegate works internally... </TD></TR></TABLE>

The waste works by "dumping" the exhaust before it gets to the turbo, therby keeping it from spinning and producing too much boost. This is "dumping" is activated by a vacuume line that is connected to somewhere in the system (usually on the charge pipe or intake manifold somewhere), which reads the pressure. Once the set pressure (lets say 7.3PSI or .5BAR) is hit, the WG opens and dumps excess exhaust.

A Boost Controller goes between the vacuume line on the charge pipe or intake manifold and the WG, tricking the WG into seeing a lower PSI, until the Boost controller reads its set pressure (again we will use 7.3PSI or .5BAR), then it releases the pressure and sends it to the WG, making the WG open and dump the exhaust.

 

Sweet, thanks! I totally get it now

 

Good questions and good answers! I feel enlightened!

 

glad i coult help! I was there before myself

 

Yes, it's much appreciated

Can you explain why one TiAL wastegate is high pressure and one is regular? Just construction/strength differences, or could I run a 0.5bar spring in a high-pressure wastegate?

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=565663

Try that...its good reading.

Also, definitely get the book "MAXIMUM BOOST" by Corky Bell.

To help with other questions...

ZDYNE GOLD is the best, most stable unit I believe you can buy for an ODB0(on board diagnostics) car. There are plenty others...but at $950, you get a solid unit. But remember these are designed for ODB0 cars, which 92 Intregra GSRs and UP, do NOT come with...B18a(pre-1992) & ZC motors are ODB0

Like the other guy said, stock internals can handle a lot more than some people think...many have doen wonderous things with them but most recommend 8 psi limit for the stock block. Besides, without a more tolerant MAP sensor(like the GM 3 BAR (almost 45 psi)), the factory honda map sensor will start throwing check engine codes at roughly 11 psi, 9 on older models i have heard

Why someone would get a higher BAR spring and not a small one with a boost controller is that #1 its cheaper, and #2 adding a boost controller is just one more thing that could possibly go wrong

There are two types of boost controllers, manual and electrical...read up here:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb....ntrol

Lastly, I have never heard of a high-pressure tial...there are different diameter valve openings 35mm, 38mm, 40mm, 46mm......they just support higher horsepower applications the bigger and bigger you get.

 

how do BOVs know when the throttle plate is closed, and couldnt you plumb a BOV to blow all the pressure out at a certian point for safety.

 

thats a good question.. to be honest I dont really know. I assume they "sense" the pressure spike when the plate closes. I dont think they could hanle functioning as a WG. Perhaps some of the more informed members will answer this one.

 

The blow off valve has a screw on it to adjust the sensitivity of when it releases the air inside the charge pipes. When the pressure in the charge pipes reach the pressure the bov is set at with the screw, it releases the air. I think.

 

That wouldn't make sense... it doesn't vent at a certain pressure, it vents when there's a backpressure wave from the throttlebody butterfly closing. I think it just senses the wave, but I'm not really sure how

 

you set the sensitivity on the bov with a screw, to realease when the backPRESSURE hits a certain psi, or however you measure it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CustomCockpits &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">




The stock honda map sensor is the problem. I can only "read" up to about 11 psi before it throws a check engine light (CEL). There are many ways to do this, the "check valve" method is not something i personally reccomend. Getting a replacement MAP sensor (GM 3 BAR) is the right way to do it. Do a search on that.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
does this mean that u can run boost under 11psi and the check engine light wont come on ??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GunnaGetOne &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you set the sensitivity on the bov with a screw, to realease when the backPRESSURE hits a certain psi, or however you measure it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

or in otherwords "pressure" so it can function as a safety device aswell? Anyone know?

 

It is a saftey device.... i don't understand you question...