Hi everyone, I wanna know if those i/h/e do anything for a non FI prelude. Can anyone tell me real-life experiences with and without those NA bolt ons? What I want is to see your before & after, like your best 1/4 mile run without it and with it. Any bolt on is welcomed to be discussed. Yeah, and this is for NA preludes with no turbo/sc/nitrous.

 

One of the other mods of the prelude forum, Honda318DX put down 200whp with an AEM intake, SMSP header, and a race exhaust (similiar gains to a good catback)

Thats a pretty large improvement NA with only 3 bolt on parts

 

i/h/e encourage more air flow through out the motor. that equals more horsepower.... dont get me wrong though. some people claim 50+ horses if you have all those, but i believe its more like 5-10+.... thats all it takes though.
the prelude h22a is a very nice motor. depending on the driver, the motor usually runs low 15's to high 14 second 1/4 miles. with all the bolt on, you should be running consistant 1/4 miles at 14.6 or somewhere close to that.

i havnt seen dyno numbers, but ill be dynoing my car soon. ill have i/h/e and v-afc.

 

Man, 200whp sounds unreal. The stock engine has what? Like 170whp, then how in the world you'd get 200whp from just i/h/e?

 

From what I saw so far, there weren't any 14.6 with i/h/e. Actually the times were about the same as without those bolt ons. But it's hard to compare this way, because it also depends on the driver and wheels and tires. So that's why I wanna see the results from the same driver on the same car, without and with the bolt ons. I just don't wanna buy things I won't need.

 

if your going n/a, then your going to want these bolt ons.
if your going forced induction, then dont bother.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Odessa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man, 200whp sounds unreal. The stock engine has what? Like 170whp, then how in the world you'd get 200whp from just i/h/e?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, around 165whp sounds right.

Most off the shelf cookie cutter headers are just lousy, they are designed to work with stock exhausts. A real header with a big collector will make very nice power on most honda engines.

 

15.1@93 = stock
14.7@96 = CAI

 

I can't just take your words and start to "want" it. I need some real facts, which will show some "ok" improvements in performance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">15.1@93 = stock
14.7@96 = CAI</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, that's more interesting. Would like to see more of that if anyone has any.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nick M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One of the other mods of the prelude forum, Honda318DX put down 200whp with an AEM intake, SMSP header, and a race exhaust (similiar gains to a good catback)

Thats a pretty large improvement NA with only 3 bolt on parts</TD></TR></TABLE>

SMSP headers are no joke!
We are awaiting the dynos when the first batch is shipped out.
To me definitely worth the 1200, but ill wait for a used one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by silver97prelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

SMSP headers are no joke!
To me definitely worth the 1200, but ill wait for a used one. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought $1200 was high too but after seeing the results from Corey's car...I really don't think it is a high price. I look at a lot of people on these car websites with cam gears, high flow fuel rails, etc ( and any other mods that do not provide any addition power if not tuned properly). If they just saved their money on these mods and picked up this header...they would be in better shape.

Just my observation. If I get an h22 I would VERY seriously consider one of these headers.

 

Here, I found something very interesting:

http://www.importreview.com/performance.html

They have nice reviews with actual dynos. There is one with SMSP header on Type R, gave extra 15 hp, not bad at all. Yeah, and there is a review with a hondata on a stock non boosted engine, gave extra 7 hp (tuned of course). So that could be an option as well

 

One more site:

http://www.ap-engineering.com/header.html

Again, ITR and SMSP came out a winner, but others weren't that far away.

 

Basically, SMSP is the hands down winner of the header debate. Pretty much everyone would have one if money wasn't an issue. If you want to go fast NA just run an open SMSP header, a cai, and throw the rest of your money at internals. Once you get higher compression pistons and some good cams, then start messing with an intake, extrudehoned IM, Big bore TB, and headwork. Regardless of what bolt-ons you have you are still going to be slow unless you have higher compression to get more air into the motor. However, if you just want 13s ihe and tuning should get you close.

 

I'm not planning to go inside the engine, so no internals for me, I just don't wanna get into it. I'm just making my own research of what the best thing to do for me. And if I'll get close to 13's with bolt ons, that would be just awesome!

You basically get everything in one package: speed, reliability and good milage for the daily driver

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by laughinxxx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Regardless of what bolt-ons you have you are still going to be slow unless you have higher compression to get more air into the motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
how does higher compression get more air into the motor?!
marsh

 

I dynod my car before and after all my mods.

Icemane intake, Mugen 4-2-1 header, mugen twin loop cat back, Random Tech cat, Apexi VAFC. (tuning on the dyno)

+30HP at the wheels at the high end, +15hp average at the low to mid range rpm.

 

That is pretty impressive. How much did you spend on all these upgrades?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 57STS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Icemane intake, Mugen 4-2-1 header, mugen twin loop cat back, Random Tech cat, Apexi VAFC. (tuning on the dyno)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

At least 2.5G's $$ Sounds like a really nice setup!

 

the mugen stuff alone was close to $2000 by themselves!!!

i'm jealous though i'd looooove a twin loop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marshdoggg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
how does higher compression get more air into the motor?!
marsh</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lets say that the combustion chamber volume on an H22A1 head is 58.3 cc, that you are running perfectly flat pistons, and that the overall displacement of one cylinder is 575 cc. That means that the combustion chamber is 9.35% of the displacement. If you run pistons with a 13.8cc dome in the same cylinder you'll have an overall displacement of 561.2 cc in that cylinder. This makes the combustion chamber volume at TDC 40cc. This means that the effective combustion chamber is 7.13% of the overall displacement.
Because of this the higher compression pistons will have a greater percentage of displacement on the piston's downstroke, thus more negative pressure in the cylinder.
Negative pressure is what sucks air into the cylinders, just like negative pressure sucks air into your lungs.

I mean I could be wrong, but this is the way that I understand it.

 

how many hp will the SMSP header gain stock on a h22

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC4O &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how many hp will the SMSP header gain stock on a h22</TD></TR></TABLE>

obviously it is going to be different on every car. but i would expect at least 15hp to the wheels just like the results posted above on the ITR.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by laughinxxx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Lets say that the combustion chamber volume on an H22A1 head is 58.3 cc, that you are running perfectly flat pistons, and that the overall displacement of one cylinder is 575 cc. That means that the combustion chamber is 9.35% of the displacement. If you run pistons with a 13.8cc dome in the same cylinder you'll have an overall displacement of 561.2 cc in that cylinder. This makes the combustion chamber volume at TDC 40cc. This means that the effective combustion chamber is 7.13% of the overall displacement.
Because of this the higher compression pistons will have a greater percentage of displacement on the piston's downstroke, thus more negative pressure in the cylinder.
Negative pressure is what sucks air into the cylinders, just like negative pressure sucks air into your lungs.

I mean I could be wrong, but this is the way that I understand it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
All that makes sense to me but I don't believe you would be getting <U>more</U> air into the motor. If anything I would think you would be getting less air into the motor, just at a quicker rate therefore more power quicker. Just like you said: from 58.3cc's to 40cc's (less volume). Other than that though good explaination!