Other than the fact that there are less, miles on a B16a2. It there a big difference anywhere between the a and a2...


B16a block
---Stock Pistons
---Stock Bore
---Block Girdle ( I believe this is what its called, its used to keep the block more stable at higher RPM's. Correct me if I am wrong.)

B16a Head
---USDM ITR Cams or CTR ( I believe they are the same right, which whould be better)
---Portflow Valvetrain (ratainers, valves etc...)
---Ported Head
---JDM Header
---Thin Headgasket

OR

B16a Head
---Skunk 2 Stage 2 cams
---Skunk 2 Valvetrain (ratainers, valves etc...)
---Ported Head
---JDM Header
---Thin Headgasket

I plan on just running a stock block because I dont have the money or the down time to spend waiting for it. I also would like to keep my stock exhaust just maybe get manderal bent pipe from the cat to the muffler. Would that help much if any.

I plan to get somewhere aroung 185-195 tunned, can I expect more or less. Thanks for your guy's input.




Modified by SoCaLNaTIvE at 5:22 AM 9/2/2003

 

Why would you want to use ITR pistons?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would you want to use ITR pistons? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry corected the mistake, was thinking of something else at the time...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoCaLNaTIvE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Other than the fact that there are less, miles on a B16a2. It there a big difference anywhere between the a and a2...


B16a block
---Stock Pistons
---Stock Bore
---Block Girdle ( I believe this is what its called, its used to keep the block more stable at higher RPM's. Correct me if I am wrong.)

B16a Head
---USDM ITR Cams or CTR ( I believe they are the same right, which whould be better)
---Portflow Valvetrain (ratainers, valves etc...)
---Ported Head
---JDM Header
---Thin Headgasket

OR

B16a Head
---Skunk 2 Stage 2 cams
---Skunk 2 Valvetrain (ratainers, valves etc...)
---Ported Head
---JDM Header
---Thin Headgasket

I plan on just running a stock block because I dont have the money or the down time to spend waiting for it. I also would like to keep my stock exhaust just maybe get manderal bent pipe from the cat to the muffler. Would that help much if any.

I plan to get somewhere aroung 185-195 tunned, can I expect more or less. Thanks for your guy's input.


Modified by SoCaLNaTIvE at 5:22 AM 9/2/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well let's see the Gen 1 B16's were little lower comrpession and less agressive cams. The JDM B16A 2nd gen's have .2 compression more (10.4 vs 10.2) over the USDM B16A2 and A3.

B16's do not have a block girdle and they do not need one. CTR and ITR cams are fine on stock valvetrain up to stock fuel cut. Portflow is a good alternative for cheap although not needed. ITR inner springs and swap stock inners to exhaust is plenty. Stock retainers and stock valves or ITR intake if you want for a little weight savings.

If you do the Skunk2 Stage 2's they will make more then the CTR/ITR's from about 6,500 rpm and up but I would do the Stage 1's unless you wanted to mill your head, CTR pistons (or other high comp) with thin headgasket. Atleast about 11.5:1 and up to start really get your money's worth.

Headwork is great if you got the money. Just make sure it's a reputable place. There is a thread on here with GREAT info on headwork.

Oh and expect MUCH less power then that just a heads up.

 

on a stock bottom end i think expecting 185 tuned is asking for a lot. And even if you do you'll probably have to tune for max hp just to reach a number instead of tuning for the most area under the graph. I think you're going to want higher compression as it will help out your tq (which you're going to want in a b16) and help to give you that extra area under the curve I just mentioned. Just seems pointless to put all that money into the head with porting and cams and not spend an extra few hundred for ITR or CTR pistons. just my .02. don't forget a good intake manifold and the proper throttle body. Don't want to choke the engine.

s

 

Tru Tru, thanks for the input... Odd because they have a dyno graph on import review with a b16 at 189 I think. Anyone seen it.

 

ok sparky, here's some info for you. I had a B16A2 block with A head. I had JUN III cams in there, with a JUN header. The bottom end was all stock- 162whp 102wtq. No way in hell would I see the numbers you are looking for. You'll have to bump the compression if you want to hit close to 200 whp. I've been working on the B16 now for over three years, and will share this info with you. The B16 will rev just about as high as the head will let it. You may want to get ARP rod bolts for the bottom end. High lift/duration cams need at least 11.5:1 compression to really come alive.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stevel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a stock bottom end i think expecting 185 tuned is asking for a lot. And even if you do you'll probably have to tune for max hp just to reach a number instead of tuning for the most area under the graph. I think you're going to want higher compression as it will help out your tq (which you're going to want in a b16) and help to give you that extra area under the curve I just mentioned. Just seems pointless to put all that money into the head with porting and cams and not spend an extra few hundred for ITR or CTR pistons. just my .02. don't forget a good intake manifold and the proper throttle body. Don't want to choke the engine.

s</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, you should buy ITR pistons to lower your compression ratio.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by advanracing62 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok sparky, here's some info for you. I had a B16A2 block with A head. I had JUN III cams in there, with a JUN header. The bottom end was all stock- 162whp 102wtq. No way in hell would I see the numbers you are looking for. You'll have to bump the compression if you want to hit close to 200 whp. I've been working on the B16 now for over three years, and will share this info with you. The B16 will rev just about as high as the head will let it. You may want to get ARP rod bolts for the bottom end. High lift/duration cams need at least 11.5:1 compression to really come alive.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bumping my compression to 11.1, can that get me to around 185-195 HP. Can I go with a Forged Piston, or is their a USDM or JDM Piston I can go with to raise compression to my desired amount.

 

For that much horsepower you will need to raise the compression a little.

Check this out: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=593348

Peace.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoCaLNaTIvE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Bumping my compression to 11.1, can that get me to around 185-195 HP. Can I go with a Forged Piston, or is their a USDM or JDM Piston I can go with to raise compression to my desired amount. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Using OEM CTR pistons would net you the compression you are after. Not to expensive to go this rout either. Just need to get the small end of your rods milled 1mm on each side.

 

The CTR's will give you 10.8:1 stock bore and slightly more if O/S. You don't have to machine B16A rods to fit PCT's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You don't have to machine B16A rods to fit PCT's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you sure. A very reliable sorce told me that the small end of a B16 rod measures 20mm across, the same as the inside of the B16B pistons (How do I know about teh pistons................I had some). GSR rods do not need the mod because they are only 18mm across allowing for plenty of clearence.

http://ef-1.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=26

Scroll down to omniman's reply and then tell me I am wrong.

 

Hmm. I was under the impression that the B16 rods fell into the CTR/ITR/GSR rods which had plenty of clearence. I know when you put the PCT's in an LS block w/ LS rods you have to machine off like 1mm or so from each side. Rocket knows the exact amount.

 

So I should be going with a CTR piston, and GSR Rods. Thanks for the help, this is my first engine build.

 

No. GSR rods will not work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm. I was under the impression that the B16 rods fell into the CTR/ITR/GSR rods which had plenty of clearence. I know when you put the PCT's in an LS block w/ LS rods you have to machine off like 1mm or so from each side. Rocket knows the exact amount.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the machine shop said they had to take " a little" of the small ends of the stock rods to put on my pct's. i would say 1mm is close.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The CTR's will give you 10.8:1 stock bore and slightly more if O/S. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the pct's will give you a little higher than stock CR of 10.8:1, when put in a b16a block. the b16B block is taller than a b16a's, and when you put pct's into your b16a block, the dome of the piston actually sticks out the top of the block a little. they don't stick out in the b16B if you follow.

 

Thanks again for all the help

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No. GSR rods will not work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So then if the rod and piston length is to high, is there a rod i can go with that wont need to be cut a little. Other than the stock B16 rods. Or am i just waisting money by replacing a perfectly good and strong rod.

By the way what does o/s mean...

 

stick with the stock rods, just get them shot peened. Takes out the imperfections and adds a little strength. Those rods will work fine. But they do need to be milled 1mm on each side at the top to fit the CTR pistons.

O/S = oversized. You can get the CTR's in either stock bore or .25 o/s. I went with the o/s CTR's, shot peened my stock rods, added ARP rod bolts, and had everything spun balanced (stock crank). Hopefully this will work out pretty well. Still waiting on my head to be finished. (Skunk stage II's, Skunk valvetrain, Spooky p&p).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kaosbob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stick with the stock rods, just get them shot peened. Takes out the imperfections and adds a little strength. Those rods will work fine. But they do need to be milled 1mm on each side at the top to fit the CTR pistons.

O/S = oversized. You can get the CTR's in either stock bore or .25 o/s. I went with the o/s CTR's, shot peened my stock rods, added ARP rod bolts, and had everything spun balanced (stock crank). Hopefully this will work out pretty well. Still waiting on my head to be finished. (Skunk stage II's, Skunk valvetrain, Spooky p&p). </TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you keep me in mind when you finish your set up, I would like to know how everything turned out.

 

Even though the deck height is higher and it uses a B16 crank Honda just utilized longer rods to acomodate. The only thing I coudl think of is Pin location on the PR3/P30 vs PCT's that would cause it to stick out of the hole.

You don't need to buy GSR rods or any other rods. Have you seen a connecting rod before outside of the motor? Ok there is a larger diameter end and small diameter end. Well on that small end you just have to machine off on the sides to fit. You aren't actaully machining the rod length or anything if that's what you are thinking.

 

Ok, i understant more, thanks for the help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even though the deck height is higher and it uses a B16 crank Honda just utilized longer rods to acomodate. The only thing I coudl think of is Pin location on the PR3/P30 vs PCT's that would cause it to stick out of the hole.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe the pin location is the same but the hight of the piston itself (compression height not dome height) is a few thousandths higher.

There are some pics/specs on tholdone.com I will try and put them up here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The CTR's will give you 10.8:1 stock bore and slightly more if O/S. You don't have to machine B16A rods to fit PCT's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmmm. This has been debated time and time again but I believe most people (in the know that is) came to the conclusion from calculating that it's higher than that. The 10.8:1 CR ratio is what c-speedracing's CR calculator spits out. Most (again, of the people that actually know) say it's higher than that and over 11:1. What exact number they came to I can't remember. I believe Sgt was the one that says how wrong they're calculator is. Can't really remember but he seems like he knows his stuff.

s