Well if you guys don't remember, i shredded my timing belt about 3 weeks ago. Heres a link to the thread if you guys were curious as to what happened. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=588649

Found out that i had bent 8 valves, broken 2 valve guides. I decided to go with a smaller cam set up because they're more suitable for street. Not only that, but skunk2 stage 1 cams are CARB exempt, which is a good thing for cali people like me.

While the head was off, i decided to get some high compression stainless steel valves and had Joe Alaniz do my head work. I got the street master head (not competition).

This is a dyno graph comparing my old toda spec B set up compared to my new skunk2 stage 1 setup with the head work done to it.






Now for some reviews. Daily driving under 4000 rpm, both setups feel pretty similar. I do miss the mid range grunt that the toda B's had, but i definitely like the top end of the skunk2 stage 1's. As you can see in between 5000-6000 rpm, the toda b's still spank the skunk2 stage 1 cams with head work. However, most of my racing is done after 6000 rpm, so this set up is alot better for me. I wasn't a skunk2 believer until now. I don't have to worry about shredding timing belts, or abnormal valvetrain noises with the stage 1's. Its just alot less headache for me and i love it.

Edit: Red line is Toda Spec B. The others are Skunk2 Stage 1.

Peak power for Toda = 195
Peak power for Stage 1= 210.5

 

Nice, thats some quality stuff there bro. Skunk2 gets a from me.

 

damn, those are sweet #'s.

 

Wow those skunks pull hard up top for stage1's.

 

What are the supporting mods? I'm guessing higher compression.

< Wishing his Skunk stage I's would produced more.

 

The toda b's kicked some serious *** with torque, that's definetely appealing but shredding timing belts is not.

 

Tim...I hate to say it, BUT I TOLD YA SO LOL! CONGRATS

 

StinkyTofu,

What's your current set up? What was your previous set up?

 

congrad bro, wahoo you broke 200whp finally.. soo bad ***

 

YOU can not compare the sets of cams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

period.....

why don't you throw your toda's in just to see.....I BET MONEY THEY MAKE MORE MIDRANGE THAN BEFORE AND MORE PEAK than the skunk 2 stage 1's.....

headwork makes a big differentce......there is no comparison with the 2 cams when headwork and compression increase is thrown into the mix!!!

 

Oh damn, i didn't realize they weren't both tested on the same head. Welp that pretty much makes that comparison worthless......

 

Well the fact of the matter is he is still making more power than the Toda B's in the area our cars are geared for without as much risk of T belt shredding. To that I give a . Will headwork really give the B's 15whp on the top end?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is no comparison with the 2 cams when headwork and compression increase is thrown into the mix!!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>



however... if u feel this setup is safer due to a less agressive cam... then that's what floats ur boat

 

CHAD- he has the streetmaster kit, it is not aggressive headwork in any way shape or form, its mild to say the most...in my opinion toda b's are overrated, PERIOD! (especially when you factor in the cost of a brand new set of toda b's compared to the cost of a brand new set of skunk2 stage 1) I will be posting dyno sheets of the skunk2 stage 2 cams in my type r motor soon...

 

And he is still employing 11:1 r pistons..the only thing that boosted compression (EVER SO SLIGHTLY) is the high compression valves....

 

I know its not a fair comparison between the two cams because of the headwork. Like b18c-rDC2 said, its only a street master head, not the competition. There isn't THAT much work done to it. If you wanna see whats done to it, check out http://www.alaniztechnologies.com and look up the desciription/pictures for the street master head.

It just seems that people are under the impression that skunk2 cams are weak and don't produce much power. I'm only at 11.7:01 compression, which isn't ideal for the toda spec b. Most the guys running spec b's with good numbers are 12.0:01 or well over.

Also, take note that this dyno was done on a dynapack, power measured at the hubs. Dynojet reads approximately 5-10 less whp.

Unless i can swap the cams on the dyno on the same day at the same time of day, there really isn't a "fair" way to compare them as there are too many variables. I'm not sure how much the head helped me, but i honestly think the cams would have very similiar top end power.

Bottom line is that i wanted more reliability, but i got some more top end out of it.

 

What would those #'s be in dynojet language?

Sounds like the Skunk2's are a great street cam.

I'm still interested in seeing more about the JUN 2 intake cam / ITR exhaust cam for a street setup.

What turned you on to the Skunk2's over, lets say, Toda A's?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What would those #'s be in dynojet language?

Sounds like the Skunk2's are a great street cam.

I'm still interested in seeing more about the JUN 2 intake cam / ITR exhaust cam for a street setup.

What turned you on to the Skunk2's over, lets say, Toda A's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Should be around 200whp on a dyno jet i think. I got the stage 1's over toda a's cause they're street legal and they're a butt load cheaper. I've seen some pretty impressive gains with stage 1's on the board (mph, rainmanek), so i thought i would give it a try.

 

I would take these cams anyday of the week over those OVERATED, OVERPRICED, POS JDM cams.This has to the 5th post i have read about broken timing belts with TODA B cams. Im sure everybody has read about those JUN cams actually cracking in the cylinder head. JDM cams

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Poppa Pump &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would take these cams anyday of the week over those OVERATED, OVERPRICED, POS JDM cams.This has to the 5th post i have read about broken timing belts with TODA B cams. Im sure everybody has read about those JUN cams actually cracking in the cylinder head. JDM cams </TD></TR></TABLE>

This has to one of the most IGNORANT statements I have read to date. I guess it is all personal opinion but I think some of the MOST UNDER RATED Cams on the market are the CTR cams. capable of 200 plus horse power. Most people are so pressed to go after market that they never realize the full potential of the Honda Stock cams. IMO Honda makes the best cams for the Street apps. Spoon Cams rock too.
5 cases of broken timing belts? HA!!! what about the 100`s of other satisfied customers out there.I think the Spec B will KILL the Junk2`s anyday of the week. I gaurantee with the same head those B`s would surely out perform the Stage 1`s.
I will say this the Stage ones are more suited for the Street and therefore more user friendly. I know countless beople running Toda and Jun cams and NEver one problem not ONE. Sure everyone is entitled to thier opinion but be for real. I think the cheap prices for the Taiwan made products is the main attractive factor. 900 for a set of cams is NOTHING there are other companites out here Like Feel`s asking 1300 or more. I have even seen Cams go for as much as 2800.
Using a product outside what it is mainly produced for is should have no reflection on quality of the item. If the Cams are install properly and tuned right there will be no problem and that is the bottom line.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Poppa Pump &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I would take these cams anyday of the week over those OVERATED, OVERPRICED, POS JDM cams.This has to the 5th post i have read about broken timing belts with TODA B cams. Im sure everybody has read about those JUN cams actually cracking in the cylinder head. JDM cams </TD></TR></TABLE>

maybe that's why TODA recommends that you use an upgraded timing belt.

yea, ur right, toda cams don't make any power at all....what a waste of money (no sarcasm, i promise )

just out of curiosity, what makes the toda cams not street legal in cali? just that they don't come with a CARB # or that u won't pass emissions? cuz i doubt the po-po is gonna make u crack open the engine so they can look for cam brands, etc.

why doesn't some one post up some specs on both cams (lift, duration, etc.)

Hunter - who's going to class now

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hunter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
why doesn't some one post up some specs on both cams (lift, duration, etc.)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think it's so much the duration or lift is the issue, rather, the very steep ramp angles on the TODA cams that make them different to most others out there. Not sure that can be shown without a complete picture of the profile of the cam lobe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hunter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

maybe that's why TODA recommends that you use an upgraded timing belt.

yea, ur right, toda cams don't make any power at all....what a waste of money (no sarcasm, i promise )

just out of curiosity, what makes the toda cams not street legal in cali? just that they don't come with a CARB # or that u won't pass emissions? cuz i doubt the po-po is gonna make u crack open the engine so they can look for cam brands, etc.

why doesn't some one post up some specs on both cams (lift, duration, etc.)

Hunter - who's going to class now</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tim had the pe timing belt...

 

You really have to live in cali to understand how retarded cali popo's can be. Really, its unbelievable sometimes. My header doesn't have a carb number on it, so they would probably send me to the state referee for that. With the toda's, i will not pass emissions for sure.

I don't have a doubt in mind that i could make more power with the toda b's on the same head. You can already see that it makes more midrange even without it. But i'm not about to waste my head again because of shredding a timing belt. If you read the thread i posted earlier, you would know that i shredded my Power Enterprise timing belt (supposedly the same as toda's belt disguised in blue) within 13,000 miles. I'm not about to waste money fixing my head again cause of a shredded timing belt.

So what are all the cons with the toda b's? I had constant valvetrain noise. Its annoying when you're cruising on the freeway at 4000 rpm and you can hear your valvetrain over your exhaust (i have a n1). Clack clack clack clack clack....thats all you would hear.

Cam specs from team-integra.net:

Skunk2 Stage 1:
INTAKE lift- 11.58 mm, duration 252 @ 1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.8 mm, duration 249 @1mm

Toda Spec B:
INTAKE lift - 12 mm, duration 255 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 12mm, duration 245 @1mm

I was never happy with the dyno results i got when tuning the B's. Never impressed me except for the midrange gains, but thats it. It was always disappointing to me that people with smaller cams would be making the same, if not, more power than me. So for those of you guys going all crazy "its not fair, blah blah blah blah", i never said it was fair, so stop crying .

 

I remain unconvinced that the toda b's would have made equivalent or higher numbers than the skunk2 stage 1 cams in the same head...High compression valves (MINIMAL increase in compression), and the streetmaster head by alaniz IS NOT aggressive at all. I wish Tim still had the b cams so we could solve this, speculation is simply speculation!