http://exvitermini.com/pics/j3jwrx3.jpg

Picture of the JUN Subaru WRX STi from the Toyko Auto Salon.

There is no throttle cable, no throttle body (or possibly bodies), no indication of a MAP sensor, or mass air sensor, air temp sensor, TPS, IAC. It appreards there is nothing deemed needed for "normal" automotive engine operation.

Can anyone fill any light onto this setup?

My (weak) theroy:
Throttle by wire, electronic wastegate and
map sensor (hidden) would all the motor would need.

 

To answer the question in the title: No.

The TBs are probably somewhere under that metal shroud looking thing?

 

A friend of mine has a 2.5RS and says that the location of the "intake manifolds" goes right into the head, with no room for TBs.

Weird.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by loworbitSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A friend of mine has a 2.5RS and says that the location of the "intake manifolds" goes right into the head, with no room for TBs.

Weird.</TD></TR></TABLE>


then how does the vehical meter air?

 

On the typical Imprezas, the throttle body is in the middle and back.

http://images.cardomain.com/me...l.jpg

Right below the STi intercooler is the stock throttle body.

 

that thing has ITB's they are at the end of each runner before it goes into the head


and no, a car can not run without a throttle body or it would be just like running at WOT constantly

 

and if you look close, you can see them

 

Bmw has an engine that runs without throttle bodies.. it has a variable rocker arm assembly that limits how much the valves will open when the throttle closes.. its suppose to be much more efficient.

 

just a tid bit.

Diesel turbo engines have no throttle body

it uses the injectors

it may be like apples and oranges, but it is interesting

with enough money you could probably do anything

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pornstarSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a tid bit.

Diesel turbo engines have no throttle body

it uses the injectors

it may be like apples and oranges, but it is interesting

with enough money you could probably do anything</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah diesels are cool. no throttle. more fuel = more power. they are also working on direct injection, where the fuel injector squirts right into the cylinder - better fuel atomization and more accurate fuel metering -- more effeciency.

the image of diesel engines in the US being stinky crappy cars is about to be over. diesel is huge in europe and it will be making a comeback here too...good mileage good power (with turbo too, and lots of torque) and low emissions.

and yes something like electronically actuated valves will eliminate the throttle body someday...even if we're burning natural gas or hydrogen by then...

 

the BWM engine that runs on soleniods is going to be the future...
but it works like diesle...injects fuel to compensate for throttle.

works different than regular engines, or this engine in this case

 

Yup diesels (turbo / NA) need no throttling valve, due to the variable air fuel ratio nature of the diesel cycle combustion. Therefore, there is no need for a bov... you have boost all the time including idle in most turbo diesels.


However, some mercedes diesels they actually did have them for metering likely.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah diesels are cool. no throttle. more fuel = more power. they are also working on direct injection, where the fuel injector squirts right into the cylinder - better fuel atomization and more accurate fuel metering -- more effeciency. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not all diesels have direct injection; some have indirect injection, but all inject fuel into the combustion chamber AFTER the intake valve is closed. Both direct and indirect injection have been around for decades.

The efficiency of direct injection arises from less heat loss from lower surface area. Both DI and IDI have to be absolutely precise with metering. In fact there is less margin of error with DI engines with respect to timing...

However, indirect injection diesels can rev quite a bit higher. Typically an automotive DI engine will redline at around 4K whereas an IDI can rev to 6500rpm...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRswapandslow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the BWM engine that runs on soleniods is going to be the future...
but it works like diesle...injects fuel to compensate for throttle.

works different than regular engines, or this engine in this case</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes it uses no traditional throttle, but it does use a *throttling method* to maintain the proper AFR gas engines must abide by, and inject fuel accordingly. Some gas engines can have quite a wide AFR and still maintain combustion, but nowhere near what a diesel can vary its combustion AFR.

 

and not all diesels don't have throttle plates

some of the older mercedes have a throttle body

 

The bmw I am talking about has normal injection I believe and only opens the valve enough to keep the engine running at an idle.. The rocker arm is on an electronic ramp/cam that make the lift higer or lower depending what the throttle is doing.. its suppose to be supper efficent because the engine is not fighting the throttle body to get air. I don't know if its in production yet or not.

 

heres a nice link explaining BMW's valvetronic system its kinda like VTEC except it has infinite settings instead of 2 and yes it uses variable valve lift to throttle incoming air/fuel, so no need for a throttle body needed. pretty sweet **** though i think right now its more for efficiency then power its not gonna be offered on m series cars yet i think anyway its a good read and should clear up any questions http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/valvetronic.htm

 

ohhh, i haven't seen that one yet

i thoguht you were talking about the soleniod one

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRswapandslow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and not all diesels don't have throttle plates

some of the older mercedes have a throttle body </TD></TR></TABLE>
You are right, for the most part the majority of diesels do not have throttle bodies (sticking to passenger car and med-duty truck applications) But lately the overseas passenger car diesels are being introduced with throttle body controls.
One example in the states is the Powerstroke engines. The 2002 and older Powerstrokes are a non-throttle body engine. The newest Powerstroke engines do have a throttle body control.
Plus I can think of quite a few Diesel engines that do NOT have manifold pressure all the time. That is a misconception. Now if you were to say that there was never a vacuum instance, then I would go along with you.

 

hmm...BOV on a dually....gotta get that soon!

 

ok i know the car and the specs...it has 2 tb's and u can see the throttle rotor ofn the side...its all there, u have to have tb

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SLPR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Plus I can think of quite a few Diesel engines that do NOT have manifold pressure all the time. That is a misconception. Now if you were to say that there was never a vacuum instance, then I would go along with you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Misconception? How about 1psi at idle. I have measured this with my own car, fully warmed. This is with a t3/t4 also (for reference). Now if you blip the *throttle* lightly, you may see very small vacuum in the manifold, but this is quickly replaced by positive pressure. Also note, I wrote ~most~ diesels have + manifold pressure...

When I had a VNT turbo on there... 3psi at idle if i closed the vanes all the way. Another scheme I used was between shifts, I had the vanes fully close, maintaining the boost between gears In cruise situations the vanes would open all the way up yielding very low backpressure and excellent fuel efficiency... until the turbo blew up

 

I'll go with that for smaller displacement diesel applications but that is not what I commonly see in the Mid-duty diesel engines. Boost does come on quickly but there is zero manifold pressure at idle and just off idle. We may be thinking of two different engines/uses.

VGT you say, are you talking about a Dodge car variety? I have something in the works now (well have been working on it for the past year) using a VGT. I find that the spool rate is tremendously quick but there is a threashold where the VGT set up becomes a restriction. I'm getting great street response and useability but when trying to find the max power levels the vanes are basically in the way. I'd be interested in hearing some of your thoughts Signal Auto. Please IM me if you have the time and would like to disscuss.

 

Yeh, I am talking about a 2.5L inline six. Yup VGTs are very fun... too bad the one i had was not larger and lasted for more than 1 month