FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend
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From: Haymarket, VA, USA
FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend
Had a really good time at the FATT last friday. The car ran well, I drove decently, got some good instruction and feed back (thanks Bryan) and got signed off to go solo for my last session, as well as into group 2 for next time.
Other than the fact that it was hot as *****, my group was overcrowded and full of people who had never been on a track before, and that a factory 5 cobra flipped during my solo session (cutting it way short
) - the day went great. BTW, the instructor in the cobra was fine, and the driver only suffered a broken wrist - and that is great news.
Corey took me for a (fun) ride in the WRX. That was quite a blast, Dukes of Hazard style - the driving that is (well, and the hooting inside the car... from both driver and passenger)
Unfortunately, I had to say good bye to my old friend on Sunday. She is gone to a new home, and I think her new owner will take good care of her. That car had done me right for 7 years, and she has quite a few more left in her. Hell, we were keeping up with a type R, drafting down the front straight. Not bad for 110,000 miles. I'll miss that car quite a bit, the driveway looks funny without her sitting in it.
Oh well, now, I've got another car to get to know better - as soon as I am done putting in the patio, and finishing the basement... I can't wait to get back on track.
Other than the fact that it was hot as *****, my group was overcrowded and full of people who had never been on a track before, and that a factory 5 cobra flipped during my solo session (cutting it way short
) - the day went great. BTW, the instructor in the cobra was fine, and the driver only suffered a broken wrist - and that is great news.Corey took me for a (fun) ride in the WRX. That was quite a blast, Dukes of Hazard style - the driving that is (well, and the hooting inside the car... from both driver and passenger)
Unfortunately, I had to say good bye to my old friend on Sunday. She is gone to a new home, and I think her new owner will take good care of her. That car had done me right for 7 years, and she has quite a few more left in her. Hell, we were keeping up with a type R, drafting down the front straight. Not bad for 110,000 miles. I'll miss that car quite a bit, the driveway looks funny without her sitting in it.
Oh well, now, I've got another car to get to know better - as soon as I am done putting in the patio, and finishing the basement... I can't wait to get back on track.
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From: I started it
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (SJR)
Shame you had to sell the car, but it's the right thing to do. I'm betting you were a bit too attached to it to race it.
--Karl, wishing he'd been as smart...
--Karl, wishing he'd been as smart...
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">C'mon, now. I doubt that's what you're thinking when you're <u>on</u> the track.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, when his Master cyl fails and his CV turns into a greasebomb.... it probably is!
Well, when his Master cyl fails and his CV turns into a greasebomb.... it probably is!
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is something that scares me about instructing...ending up in a car w/somebody you know is going to go off somewhere like Turn 3, he's not listening to you, and there isn't much you can do about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There are many more of these incidents at BSR/FATTs (overall, even more so on a per car or per hour basis) than at NASA or CarGuys events.
It probably doesnt help that many of the instructors are racers, and many are just there for the free track time.
If a student goes off and wads his car up or otherwise acts in an unsafe manner in a group1/group2 situation, then the burden falls solely on the instrutor, IMO. If they do not know the line/track well enough or are not very quick to react to situations, then things get really interesting if you do not reel them in and keep them on a very short leash.
I refuse to allow myself to get hurt by a reckless student. If you cannot control the situation or the student, make them pit and get out of the car. Although this is a problem i see with FATT's, is that you often have a different instructor every session, so its hard to work on progress when you dont know anything about them, so its probably very hard to see it coming.
There are many more of these incidents at BSR/FATTs (overall, even more so on a per car or per hour basis) than at NASA or CarGuys events.
It probably doesnt help that many of the instructors are racers, and many are just there for the free track time.
If a student goes off and wads his car up or otherwise acts in an unsafe manner in a group1/group2 situation, then the burden falls solely on the instrutor, IMO. If they do not know the line/track well enough or are not very quick to react to situations, then things get really interesting if you do not reel them in and keep them on a very short leash.
I refuse to allow myself to get hurt by a reckless student. If you cannot control the situation or the student, make them pit and get out of the car. Although this is a problem i see with FATT's, is that you often have a different instructor every session, so its hard to work on progress when you dont know anything about them, so its probably very hard to see it coming.
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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There are many more of these incidents at BSR/FATTs (overall, even more so on a per car or per hour basis) than at NASA or CarGuys events.
It probably doesnt help that many of the instructors are racers, and many are just there for the free track time.
If a student goes off and wads his car up or otherwise acts in an unsafe manner in a group1/group2 situation, then the burden falls solely on the instrutor, IMO. If they do not know the line/track well enough or are not very quick to react to situations, then things get really interesting if you do not reel them in and keep them on a very short leash.
I refuse to allow myself to get hurt by a reckless student. If you cannot control the situation or the student, make them pit and get out of the car. Although this is a problem i see with FATT's, is that you often have a different instructor every session, so its hard to work on progress when you dont know anything about them, so its probably very hard to see it coming.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this coming from a guy who asked " when and HOW DO YOU PUSH YOUR STUDENT HARDER"......well that is what happens when someone isn't ready to increase speed or decrease braking zone.....that is why you don't push your student!
edited....i left out 2 words yo
Modified by chad at 10:14 AM 8/18/2003
There are many more of these incidents at BSR/FATTs (overall, even more so on a per car or per hour basis) than at NASA or CarGuys events.
It probably doesnt help that many of the instructors are racers, and many are just there for the free track time.
If a student goes off and wads his car up or otherwise acts in an unsafe manner in a group1/group2 situation, then the burden falls solely on the instrutor, IMO. If they do not know the line/track well enough or are not very quick to react to situations, then things get really interesting if you do not reel them in and keep them on a very short leash.
I refuse to allow myself to get hurt by a reckless student. If you cannot control the situation or the student, make them pit and get out of the car. Although this is a problem i see with FATT's, is that you often have a different instructor every session, so its hard to work on progress when you dont know anything about them, so its probably very hard to see it coming.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this coming from a guy who asked " when and HOW DO YOU PUSH YOUR STUDENT HARDER"......well that is what happens when someone isn't ready to increase speed or decrease braking zone.....that is why you don't push your student!
edited....i left out 2 words yo
Modified by chad at 10:14 AM 8/18/2003
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (chad)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this coming from a guy who asked "HOW DO YOU PUSH YOUR STUDENT HARDER"......well that is what happens when someone isn't ready to increase speed or decrease braking zone.....that is why you don't push your student!</TD></TR></TABLE>
The thread was titled "Instructors - when and how to push your student?"
Thank you.
The thread was titled "Instructors - when and how to push your student?"
Thank you.
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From: Haymarket, VA, USA
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (George Knighton)
I agree with what you say, but I think it is not necessarily bad to go solo. Provided you don't go solo all the time. I would be very happy if I could go 2-3 instructed sessions, and 1 solo session per day.
I think it is quite beneficial to be by yourself in the car, and do all the things you have been practicing with the instructors, or to practice the particular area the instructor wants you to perfect. Being alone in the car brings a different mind set, and elevates the intensity a little. having the instructor watch you from the side may be a good idea to get some feedback afterwards too.
Oh yeah, and it's fun too.
I think it is quite beneficial to be by yourself in the car, and do all the things you have been practicing with the instructors, or to practice the particular area the instructor wants you to perfect. Being alone in the car brings a different mind set, and elevates the intensity a little. having the instructor watch you from the side may be a good idea to get some feedback afterwards too.
Oh yeah, and it's fun too.
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From: the rec center, usa
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
People will <u>not</u> listen to the Turn 3 warnings!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had a guy last weekend who thought it was a good idea to enter 3 early. I basically read him the riot act. He was convinced that his way thru T3 was faster as his exit speed was better at a lapping day a few weeks ago. I think his exit speed was better at the lapping day because he didn't have 165lbs of ballast then As far as I'm concerned, he can early T3 all he wants as long as I'm not in the car. The funny thing was this guy was really much more conservative thru T10, which is a much safer turn in my book (no funky camber, more curbing, deeper gravel trap, farther to the tire wall etc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This is the same corner where a BMW driver took Dave Freeman on a violent flipping ride a few weekends ago.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
watch it pal. it was a scooby-doo sti
joel
who has mucho respecto for summit point's T3
People will <u>not</u> listen to the Turn 3 warnings!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had a guy last weekend who thought it was a good idea to enter 3 early. I basically read him the riot act. He was convinced that his way thru T3 was faster as his exit speed was better at a lapping day a few weeks ago. I think his exit speed was better at the lapping day because he didn't have 165lbs of ballast then
As far as I'm concerned, he can early T3 all he wants as long as I'm not in the car. The funny thing was this guy was really much more conservative thru T10, which is a much safer turn in my book (no funky camber, more curbing, deeper gravel trap, farther to the tire wall etc)<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This is the same corner where a BMW driver took Dave Freeman on a violent flipping ride a few weekends ago.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
watch it pal. it was a scooby-doo sti
joel
who has mucho respecto for summit point's T3
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have four sessions per day w/BSR.
The first and second sessions, you should have the same instructor.
If he feels you have addressed training correctly, then you get a different instructor for the third session.
You might have the same instructor for the fourth session; however, if the third session instructor feels you've progressed adequately, or if the third session instructor thinks he has little to show you, then you will have a different fourth session instructor of a more advanced variety.
It takes three instructors plus the chief instructor's OK to put you into Seat Time, and G2 Solo people are just stopping their advancement if they stop taking instructors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this a new system George? Just curious. I have only done 1 FATT and had different instructors every session. I also know a few people that have gotten signed off for seat time/perm. solo after 1 signoff.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a student goes off and wads his car up or otherwise acts in an unsafe manner in a group1/group2 situation, then the burden falls solely on the instrutor, IMO. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I would definately have to disagree with that. As George already mentioned, some students just dont listen, or have a problem processing. And some just flat out make mistakes. (ie- when Maeng turned in 20ft early for 3 while you were riding with him) You cant always bring a student in, if they are just a little slow to pick up, and you can never predict mistakes.
Bottom line, the instructor does not have control of the car so can only be held so much responsible for an off or incident.
Thats one of the things that bugs me about the nasa program. If a student goes off, it is automatically assumed that the instructor was allowing the student to overdrive the car and his/her skills.
It is estimated in rallying that 30% of the car's performance is attributable to the co-driver. And thats using predefined pacenotes with standard terminology and thousands of hours of practice. Instructors at an HPDE cannot be expected to have anything more than 30% of the control of a car, let alone 100%
The first and second sessions, you should have the same instructor.
If he feels you have addressed training correctly, then you get a different instructor for the third session.
You might have the same instructor for the fourth session; however, if the third session instructor feels you've progressed adequately, or if the third session instructor thinks he has little to show you, then you will have a different fourth session instructor of a more advanced variety.
It takes three instructors plus the chief instructor's OK to put you into Seat Time, and G2 Solo people are just stopping their advancement if they stop taking instructors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this a new system George? Just curious. I have only done 1 FATT and had different instructors every session. I also know a few people that have gotten signed off for seat time/perm. solo after 1 signoff.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a student goes off and wads his car up or otherwise acts in an unsafe manner in a group1/group2 situation, then the burden falls solely on the instrutor, IMO. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I would definately have to disagree with that. As George already mentioned, some students just dont listen, or have a problem processing. And some just flat out make mistakes. (ie- when Maeng turned in 20ft early for 3 while you were riding with him) You cant always bring a student in, if they are just a little slow to pick up, and you can never predict mistakes.
Bottom line, the instructor does not have control of the car so can only be held so much responsible for an off or incident.
Thats one of the things that bugs me about the nasa program. If a student goes off, it is automatically assumed that the instructor was allowing the student to overdrive the car and his/her skills.
It is estimated in rallying that 30% of the car's performance is attributable to the co-driver. And thats using predefined pacenotes with standard terminology and thousands of hours of practice. Instructors at an HPDE cannot be expected to have anything more than 30% of the control of a car, let alone 100%
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RJ, aren't you qualified for Thursday Seat Time? Didn't you go through and know all this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes i went through this. Yes i understand how their system operates. No i dont agree with all of it, but they run a pretty good show.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would definately have to disagree with that. As George already mentioned, some students just dont listen, or have a problem processing. And some just flat out make mistakes. (ie- when Maeng turned in 20ft early for 3 while you were riding with him) You cant always bring a student in, if they are just a little slow to pick up, and you can never predict mistakes.
Bottom line, the instructor does not have control of the car so can only be held so much responsible for an off or incident.
Thats one of the things that bugs me about the nasa program. If a student goes off, it is automatically assumed that the instructor was allowing the student to overdrive the car and his/her skills. </TD></TR></TABLE>
People will make mistakes. They can be fast, and consistent lap to lap, turn in off-line after a pass, or early or carrying 5mph more or whatever and **** just happens. I really do understand this - because i did it and i watched greg ginsberg's video about 300 times.
But... there are measures an instructor can do to prevent it. If they are not consistent. If they are not fast. If they dont listen - then, IMHO, slow them down, make them drive the session in 4th gear and really really work on them at getting consistent braking, turn in and apex points. If they flat out wont listen, i dont want to be in that car.
RJ
Yes i went through this. Yes i understand how their system operates. No i dont agree with all of it, but they run a pretty good show.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would definately have to disagree with that. As George already mentioned, some students just dont listen, or have a problem processing. And some just flat out make mistakes. (ie- when Maeng turned in 20ft early for 3 while you were riding with him) You cant always bring a student in, if they are just a little slow to pick up, and you can never predict mistakes.
Bottom line, the instructor does not have control of the car so can only be held so much responsible for an off or incident.
Thats one of the things that bugs me about the nasa program. If a student goes off, it is automatically assumed that the instructor was allowing the student to overdrive the car and his/her skills. </TD></TR></TABLE>
People will make mistakes. They can be fast, and consistent lap to lap, turn in off-line after a pass, or early or carrying 5mph more or whatever and **** just happens. I really do understand this - because i did it and i watched greg ginsberg's video about 300 times.
But... there are measures an instructor can do to prevent it. If they are not consistent. If they are not fast. If they dont listen - then, IMHO, slow them down, make them drive the session in 4th gear and really really work on them at getting consistent braking, turn in and apex points. If they flat out wont listen, i dont want to be in that car.
RJ
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But... there are measures an instructor can do to prevent it. If they are not consistent. If they are not fast. If they dont listen - then, IMHO, slow them down, make them drive the session in 4th gear and really really work on them at getting consistent braking, turn in and apex points. If they flat out wont listen, i dont want to be in that car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I compeltely agree with you, but the problem is that it doesnt always unfold like what you describe. There is a lag time between what you tell them, and how they respond. It takes time for the instructor to evaluate that the student is driving way too unsafe, and time for the instructor to see that the student is not listening or improving. During that time, even if its only 1 or 2 corners, bad stuff can happen. Even if you tell them to pit, bad stuff can happen before pit lane. I realize that these are pretty extreme cases, and 99.99% of students will strive to do exactly as you say, but the point remains.
If they dont listen - then, IMHO, slow them down
How do you slow them down if they dont listen?
I compeltely agree with you, but the problem is that it doesnt always unfold like what you describe. There is a lag time between what you tell them, and how they respond. It takes time for the instructor to evaluate that the student is driving way too unsafe, and time for the instructor to see that the student is not listening or improving. During that time, even if its only 1 or 2 corners, bad stuff can happen. Even if you tell them to pit, bad stuff can happen before pit lane. I realize that these are pretty extreme cases, and 99.99% of students will strive to do exactly as you say, but the point remains.
If they dont listen - then, IMHO, slow them down
How do you slow them down if they dont listen?
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From: Charlotte
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How do you slow them down if they dont listen?</TD></TR></TABLE> punch them. 
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (elgorey)
I understand where you're going. I agree 100%... the events we attend are relatively very safe, and we put in alot of measures to maintain that. But... as you said... **** happens. All we can do is try our best to restrain an overzealous student - but I would feel like **** if a student i was instructing had an incident. I'd feel even worse if they had one if i'd sent them out solo.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If they dont listen - then, IMHO, slow them down
How do you slow them down if they dont listen? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I should have been more clear - if they wont listen, its time to come in the pits and talk. If they still refuse to listen, and the car and my noodle is still intact, i'm getting out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If they dont listen - then, IMHO, slow them down
How do you slow them down if they dont listen? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I should have been more clear - if they wont listen, its time to come in the pits and talk. If they still refuse to listen, and the car and my noodle is still intact, i'm getting out.
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From: the rec center, usa
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It takes time for the instructor to evaluate that the student is driving way too unsafe</TD></TR></TABLE>
you need to keep your eyes (all your senses really) open for hints that they are getting in over their heads before it happens. For example, the students breathing is a good thing to listen for (another reason you need an intercom). Either heavy breathing or holding their breath is a good sign of impending disaster. Holding YOUR (you meaning the instructor) breath is a good sign your subconsious has figured out before your consious brain that this is a bad situation.
Death grip on the steering wheel is another one.
Didn't Unkefer cover this stuff at VIR? I wish I had been able to go to that clinic
joel
It takes time for the instructor to evaluate that the student is driving way too unsafe</TD></TR></TABLE>
you need to keep your eyes (all your senses really) open for hints that they are getting in over their heads before it happens. For example, the students breathing is a good thing to listen for (another reason you need an intercom). Either heavy breathing or holding their breath is a good sign of impending disaster. Holding YOUR (you meaning the instructor) breath is a good sign your subconsious has figured out before your consious brain that this is a bad situation.
Death grip on the steering wheel is another one.
Didn't Unkefer cover this stuff at VIR? I wish I had been able to go to that clinic
joel
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (JoelG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoelG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Didn't Unkefer cover this stuff at VIR? I wish I had been able to go to that clinic
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually he did, it was a topic covered heavily in the stage 2 clinic.
I was really referring to a "that guy" type driver, who isnt nervous, overestimates his/her driving abilities, overdrives the car on purpose and will not listen to instruction.
Didn't Unkefer cover this stuff at VIR? I wish I had been able to go to that clinic
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually he did, it was a topic covered heavily in the stage 2 clinic.
I was really referring to a "that guy" type driver, who isnt nervous, overestimates his/her driving abilities, overdrives the car on purpose and will not listen to instruction.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was really referring to a "that guy" type driver, who isnt nervous, overestimates his/her driving abilities, overdrives the car on purpose and will not listen to instruction.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah! Listen to that ferrari V8!
Yeah! Listen to that ferrari V8!
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Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (.RJ)
I was wondering, do NASA, Car Guys, and/or FATT DE's offer instuction to drivers that run in intermediate solo or advanced run groups. All of my track experience is with my local PCA region. I was only admitted to solo status once the instructor was basically "just along for the ride." I really cant get much faster safely without basic seat time. And they do offer instruction for solo drivers but all they can really do is act like a cheerleader and root me on to go faster, which im kinda still scared to push it above 8/10ths since its not a disposable race car....and theres no bar or harnesses.
So, what kind of instruction is available to higher level students at DE's held by organizations other than PCA?
So, what kind of instruction is available to higher level students at DE's held by organizations other than PCA?
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From: Maryland
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this a new system George? Just curious. I have only done 1 FATT and had different instructors every session. I also know a few people that have gotten signed off for seat time/perm. solo after 1 signoff.</TD></TR></TABLE>
At the only FATT I've attended, I had two different instructors, and was signed off to go solo after my third session. I was also signed off for group 2 at the end of the day. So were Brian Burdette, Scott Breneman and David Tittermary -- all guys with extensive motorsports backgrounds (autocrossing, performance rallying and motorcycle racing).
I don't think it's impossible to get signed off for group 2 after one day. I don't think it should be impossible. It's going to depend on the person, and I'm sure it's highly unusual to have that many first-timers signed off at once.
Karen
At the only FATT I've attended, I had two different instructors, and was signed off to go solo after my third session. I was also signed off for group 2 at the end of the day. So were Brian Burdette, Scott Breneman and David Tittermary -- all guys with extensive motorsports backgrounds (autocrossing, performance rallying and motorcycle racing).
I don't think it's impossible to get signed off for group 2 after one day. I don't think it should be impossible. It's going to depend on the person, and I'm sure it's highly unusual to have that many first-timers signed off at once.
Karen
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Darkside,, Moon
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (SJR)
Don't worry, Sebastien, I will take good care of her. 
It's a good thing you didn't waste any time vacuuming though, cause I already took out the carpet, the console and the back seats. The Evos go in next week, and the new lugs and wheel bearings are on the way.
I did get a little surprise when I tried the horn for the first time. That wasn't in your list of mods.
It's a good thing you didn't waste any time vacuuming though, cause I already took out the carpet, the console and the back seats.
The Evos go in next week, and the new lugs and wheel bearings are on the way.I did get a little surprise when I tried the horn for the first time. That wasn't in your list of mods.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,863
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From: RVA FLA VIR
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (Floyd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Floyd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't worry, Sebastien, I will take good care of her. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's AWESOME that the car is staying "in the family" !!!
Jon
</TD></TR></TABLE>It's AWESOME that the car is staying "in the family" !!!
Jon
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Haymarket, VA, USA
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (Floyd)
well, you know - you have to be able to let the guys in front of you that they need to get out of the way...
Actually, living in Dallas, it was a necessity to have a horn that could be heard! Feel free to use it on track to break other competitors' concentration though.
Have fun with it - and don't forget to save all those interior parts, you may be able to make some $$$ off them on ebay since most of them are in great shape.
Actually, living in Dallas, it was a necessity to have a horn that could be heard! Feel free to use it on track to break other competitors' concentration though.
Have fun with it - and don't forget to save all those interior parts, you may be able to make some $$$ off them on ebay since most of them are in great shape.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Haymarket, VA, USA
Re: FATT, heat, and goodbye to an old friend (Floyd)
nah, remember I told you that I had left that on as a reminder from the february FATT where I went off in 9. It was to remind me to put the go pedal to the mat when the rear end steps out...
I did not put a single wheel even close to off last week. the closest I got was getting up on the rumble strips coming out of 10.
I did not put a single wheel even close to off last week. the closest I got was getting up on the rumble strips coming out of 10.