Was cruising on the freeway and felt my car lose power. I could hear a buzzy sound coming from my engine bay. I immediately turned my engine off and i coasted to the nearest available shoulder. I tried cranking it again and it just seemed that my battery was dead or something. It was still cranking, didn't make any awful noises or anything.

Popped the hood, tried to take off the timing belt cover the best i could with the tools i had. I could see some pieces of the timing belt on the water pump.

This power enterprise belt has about 13,500 miles with the Toda B's. I seriously thought it would last longer than that. Gonna hopefully pull these cams out this week to see whats going on and to see if anything else happened to my motor.

Any of you guys who have shredded your belt, mind sharing your experiences? I know its really hard to say without getting to see this yourself, but what could i be expecting in terms of damage?

If a valve dropped into the cylinder, would my car still crank like it does? I'll keep you guys updated.

 

32 views and no comments?

 

Im pretty sure your valves are bent, not the end of the world but it does require removing the head, taking apart the head with special tools and then assembling it whith new parts. Be sure to measure valve side ti side play, if its out of spec you have to change the valve guides and thats a pain in the *** process.

 

Ok well the belt is shredded for sure. I took a look at it and i can see a whole gap of missing teeth. I really don't know what happened.

 

That happened to me and i ended up needing a whole new motor so all things considered you are pretty lucky.

 

damn man sorry to hear that, Now you can go turbo

ALways build it while its down

 

Yeah a full rebuild would be pretty nice, but i just don't have the kind of money right now to do that. I'm hoping that everything is fine, but i can't expect too much. Right now, i'm thinking of what cams to get for my car, any suggestions? I was thinking skunk2 stage 1's. I may lose a little power, but i'm willing to do that for some more reliability. Toda Bs will be for sale once i pull them out.

 

when my brand new stock belt went at 5500 rpm in 4th down a 2 lane highway, during 600 miles break-in after an engine rebuild, it cost me cylinder #3's 2 intake valves, 2 valve guides, 2 retainers, 2 valve seats, redo of the 3 angles , and labor charge to fix.

I suggest a new water pump, oil pump, and the appropriate seals (if it's time to replace them anyway according to your maintenance schedule to save on future labor charges) and of course a new Toda belt. I'd sell you our elongated belt tensioner pulley but I don't make it and the person who does isn't willing to put up with the liability responsibilities. It's a custom made one we made when I had my belt flap , the first time we installed those "lovely", "drop-in" cams (the quotations are there in case you can't see the sarcasm after all the unanimous marketing push about Toda products here that I got suckered on hook line and sinker, a couple of years back) .

BTW she runs like a champ now with a Toda kevlar belt (of course it's obvious why you should get one: red is nicer than blue is a good reason to get it...j/k).




Modified by Michael Delaney at 2:13 PM 8/11/2003

 

Do you think i still need to run a toda belt even if i won't be running those cams anymore? I really don't want this kind of problem to happen again or to have to worry about it. I thought the power enterprise belt would buy me more time, but it crapped out at 13k miles! What a waste of 160 bucks. Since the PE belt is suppposedly 4x stronger than oem, i can't imagine how long my oem belt would have lasted.

On my original OEM honda belt, i had 5k miles with stock cams, and 3k with the toda b's, then i switched the belt out to the PE. So thats a total of 8k miles on that belt. I still have timing belt and it looks 99% brand new. You look at my pe belt and you can see shredds on the sides.

I would like to buy the toda belt , keep my cams, then call it a day, but right now i'm kind of scared to run the toda b's. I am fully aware that these cams are not "drop-in". I tried to take as much precaution as possible. I played the game, so now i pay the price

Michael, when you lost your 2 intake valves, did you hear any loud noise while it happened?

 

the OEM belt, if installed correctly, will run any form of cam....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the OEM belt, if installed correctly, will run any form of cam....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yack, you dumbarse. You sell Toda belts man, you need to strike the fear into those without toda belts into buying more belts so you can make more money. Damn you for trying to help people save money.

 

I failed "Intro to Business 101"......................

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the OEM belt, if installed correctly, will run any form of cam....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Jack ,

It seems redundant then for people to make useless kevlar belts if they are not needed. **shrug**

BTW I did not install my snapped stock belt. A person who has built honda and other racing motorcycle engines before you were probably born did. He also does import engines including Bseries ones since the early 90's.

He must have no skill whatsoever or know what he is doing.

There must be a lot of people putting on their belts the wrong way too...experienced or not....since I'm not alone in this experience..

a common theme on h-t is to blame the installer rather than looking at why the design is flawed...unless there are other reasons behind not examining that ...which I am not aware of...

Perhaps the valve geometry on Toda cams doesn't lend itself to the stock installed height of the valve/springs/rockers (on a B18C1 vs B16a/B18c) and the stock tension for a long street duration?....ever turn the crank with a Toda cam installed (properly degreed to Toda specs with the plugs out) compared to say an ITR cam? if you say there in no difference then, I think there is a difference in opinion there...


Modified by Michael Delaney at 4:17 PM 8/11/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I failed "Intro to Business 101"......................</TD></TR></TABLE>

it doesn't take an MBA to sell things....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ElKamino &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yack, you dumbarse. You sell Toda belts man, you need to strike the fear into those without toda belts into buying more belts so you can make more money. Damn you for trying to help people save money. </TD></TR></TABLE>

of course your myopia doesn't allow you to see past the tip of your nose...hence the sarcasm about my commercialism comments. But if you don't think our society is based on influencing you buy things then may I humbly suggest that you may want to pull your head out the sand...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael Delaney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

of course your myopia doesn't allow you to see past the tip of your nose...hence the sarcasm about my commercialism comments. But if you don't think our society is based on influencing you buy things then may I humbly suggest that you may want to pull your head out the sand...</TD></TR></TABLE>

MD: I know it's extremely hard for you to see the 's in my posts all the time and yet you accuse me of missing sarcasm. Hellooooo kettle...

 

I have installed quite a few Toda B and C setups with the OEM belt, my own personal race car also (30K+ highway/race miles on B and or C's)

I've never, never had a problem with the OEM belt "snapping" as others speak of.


Use what you wish.... proper tension is the key.

 

I lost a belt/motor to the toda b mystery. I feel the problem is belt flap.. When you tension the belt you need to actually put a wrench on the the cam gear bolt ,and not only pull up on the tensioner but use the wrench to move the cam gear to remove the slack thats actually in between the 2 gears themselves. All the toda installs I have seen have had this flap except the ones I do now.(locally)
(was that a run on sentence..lol)

 

jack installed my b's with oem belt and i never had a problem. went about 20k miles before i sold the cams and went turbo.

 

I think we are talking more than 20K miles here though are we not?Are the stock recommnedations for a belt change higher than such? The mere fact that the belt goes to 20k does not illustrate the lack of a problem. It's a numbers game. Take 100 stock belts on an engine with B's and compare them to 100 Toda belts in the same engine. What percentage snap and at what time. That is called a scientific approach. Ideally you'd randomise the order to which of these 200 engines get which belt and mask to the driver which belt it actually is. Chance alone will set the control rate of snapping. You just want to see if the rate stock belt snapping is higher than that of chance.

I definitely agree that the tension/flapping is the key but you don't get such problems with milder cams. Obviously a higher tension is needed which stretches the stock belt.

 

You should have gotten JUN III's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should have gotten JUN III's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would've been great. Instead of a shredded timing belt, i would have snapped some cam shafts instead.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StinkyTofu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That would've been great. Instead of a shredded timing belt, i would have snapped some cam shafts instead. </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL.....

*puts flame suit on*

*runs out of the room*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StinkyTofu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That would've been great. Instead of a shredded timing belt, i would have snapped some cam shafts instead. </TD></TR></TABLE>

haha Nice reply.. if I get your meaning anyways.. If I do.. I wonder if H-Pimp will figure it out..

installation error owns any cam

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dextR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">jack installed my b's with oem belt and i never had a problem. went about 20k miles before i sold the cams and went turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Another satisfied Yack customer here. 11k miles before I sold the car and went turbo. Never a problem, and never even a concern.

Seems as if not all installers are putting belts on the proper way. Just my guess.

But what do I know? I don't build Honda race engines.