I recently bought a bone stock 91 std hatch. It's in exceptionally nice cosmetic condition (no rust and glossy original paint) and has under 100K miles with regular maintenance and mature drivers -- the previous owners, not me I'd like to make it my next project car and develop it into a moderately quick street car and regionally competitive autocross car for STS (if Si motor swaps stay legal) or CSP.

Before I get too deep into the project and this particular car, I'm wondering whether I should sell it and get a lighter 88 or 89. I was looking at this chart of EF weights from different years...

http://www.d16a.com/ef_weights.htm

...and am amazed that the older cars are nearly 200 lbs. lighter. I was under the impression that a std or DX was a good platform because it doesn't have the sunroof, etc., but the Si is only ~60 lbs. heavier than a stripper standard model. The real weight savings is in the model YEAR, not Si vs. DX vs. std.!

EDIT: The weight difference between the Si and std. is ~160 lbs. in 89-91, so I think I was misled by the 88 figures in the table. Oops. There is still a near 200 lb. difference between 88 and 91 std. hatches.

I read the following in Sport Compact Car's CRX project regarding some of the differences betwee the 88 and newer EFs:

"The 1988 CRXs are slightly lighter than any of the subsequent years' models, thanks to their conventional seat belts. 1989 and later cars had door-mounted passive restraints that required stronger, heavier doors. The '88 CRX also has a different rear suspension than any other CRX. Honda's unique sort-of-double-wishbone, sort-of-trailing-arm rear suspension uses a toe control link and a compliance bushing in concert to give a passive rear steering effect.

On the 1988 models, the passive rear steering is exceptionally strong, making them extremely nimble. On later years, much of the rear steering was tuned out, bringing handling more in line with conventional front drivers. Many road racers prefer the earlier car's more aggressive handling, but warn that they must be tuned differently. A big rear anti-roll bar that you would use on any other Civic or CRX is an invitation for snap oversteer on an '88. Most CRX experts agree that for a street car, '89 and later cars are preferable.

Also unique to the '88 rear suspension is a rear main lateral link or lower control arm (what you call it depends on whether you consider it a trailing arm or double wishbone suspension) of stamped steel rather than the cast iron arms of later cars. The rear shock attaches to the control arm with an eyelet, rather than the fork used on later cars. The only other U.S.-market Honda to use this style rear control arm is the Integra Type R, though many of the high-performance Japanese models used this rear arm.

The reason this matters at all is the fact the rear shock must be different to accommodate that rear mount. It is much easier to find rear shocks for the later cars. The later control arm, of course, can be swapped in to accommodate newer shocks."

It sounds like the doors and the rear suspension are the main differences between the 88 and later 90/91 models. Are these the source of the 200 lb. weight savings? Could you just bolt up 1988 doors and rear suspension parts (I assume that the CRX and hatch have same suspension, no?) and turn a porky 91 into a lightweight 88? Are there other differences?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Rich


Modified by 4g_hatch at 3:14 AM 8/10/2003

 

first mistake i see on that link is it shows an 88 si which there was none made in 88. I bought an 89 si because I knew about the weight difference from the 90-91's.

 

The table does show an ~80 lb. gain in weight across the board for 88 vs. 89 hatches. Using update/backdate, it seems like you should be able to get that savings on your 89 Si in STS. Or is the difference between 88s and 89s just another mistake in the table?

 

Racing a 91 std in CSP myself, I have to start by saying fun choice of cars. Now with that out of the way:

I've never seen anyone try to update / backdate the suspensions from an 88, so I can't help in the suspension dept. but I've gone through quite a few posts in the CRX/EF civic board about backdating the doors. the 90-91 seatbelts are a major pain!!!

Unfortunately, the pillar in the 90-91s do not have the provisions for proper seat belt mounting, and I'm pretty sure the doors are phisically longer in the 90-91s. so a full backdate is going to be very difficult at best. If you weren't using this car for the street, perhaps a good 5-pont harness would be a good solution, then you can pull all of the heavy seatbelt mechanisms out of the doors. (I'm not an expert on the rules of STS/CSP, they allow that, right?)