Too Many Bends? These intakes are for N/A applications and come with 2.5” diameter pipes with “smooth” bends. The Average TB is 55mm-60mm (2.25’ - 2.5”) so why does it need to be any bigger then that anyways unless it’s a highly modified motor that has a larger Tb with a purpose. The only way I can see it causing a performance drop (the bends causing it) would be if you had around 20-30psi ramming into your intake. The bends are much like what are used on Greddy, DRAG and HKS Charge pipes for a maximum efficient route from the front of the car to the throttle body. Bends in the intake pipe shouldn’t be a problem unless your motor is the problem.

Hydro Locking the motor? Adding performance parts to your motor is a risk to longevity that we all seem to take. Why would it matter by adding this Intake? It comes with a shield for “drops” that may hit your intake, yet would be almost impossible to suck up. These drops would “NOT” hydro lock your motor. If you are one of those people that go stump jumping in a low rider streetcar then you deserve to blow up your motor. If you want to go threw 2foot deep-water puddle then buy a truck, not a performance low rider. AEM cai’s will suck up water (enough to hydro lock) just as quick “if” even easier then a Front mount would. AEM and other CAI’s are located in the wheel well. How many holes in the road that you may hit are big enough and deep enough to submerge the front end of your car like a Boat going threw the river? How many have you seen that happen to be hidden and just your wheel goes sinking down into the unknown? Exactly… It would be easier to submerge your wheel well then your full front end of the car. And if you run into that problem then why are you driving your “car” in the middle of a flood/washed out area or during a hurricane anyways?

Interfooler? Is this the scapegoat all of you use to hide behind when commenting on this style of intake? This intake was not intended to appear as an intercooler for a visual orgasm on you car. It was made with a purpose; more direct and cooler air temps. Front Mount Intercoolers are placed in this location for a reason, Maximum Air Flow for Maximum cooling. The makers of Arospeed, R-1 and Dynamic Auto Design (unlike AEM and their counterparts) placed the filter in the direct path of the on coming air. At speeds of 30mph+ the airflow will give you an even cooler and more direct air charge. In theory, doesn’t that mean… More power??? The airflow will have a cooling affect and also help charge the intake pipes to a more efficient flow rate in some way. Not saying you will get positive pressures, but will help neutralize the pressures so the engine doesn’t have to work as hard to intake the air.


AEM vs. Front Mount? I don’t know the answer to this because I haven’t put money into testing the 2 products to get “hard” evidence. I have owned both and Must say they are both nice peaces. When I had the front mount on my car, the upper RPM range at higher speeds felt superior over my 3’ AEM cold air. But what dyno have you been to that has a 60mph wind gust to give the Front mount intake its edge over its rival, AEM style cold air intakes? I did run my car at the track with both intake’s but I had other add-ons to affect the performance so I couldn’t take note of an accurate performance to “just” the front mount.

Car: 92 Prelude Si
Engine: H23a, fresh rebuild
Weight w/ Driver: 2,704lbs


RUN #1

Power Adders:

3” AEM cold air intake
2 ¼” Catco Cat
2 ¼ Catback exhaust
Ported intake manifold w/ removed flappers


60- 2.317
330- 6.299
1/8- 9.640
mph- 72.57
1000- 12.564
¼- 15.043
mph- 90.74


RUN #2

Power Adders:

**2.5” R1 Front mount intake**
**4-2-1 Ceramic DC Sports header **
**2.5” Test Pipe**
2-¼ Cat back exhaust
Ported intake manifold w/ removed flappers
**Advanced distributor all the way**
**Added 110 octane to prevent knock**

60- 2.302
330- 6.258
1/8- 9.488
mph- 76.84
1000- 12.281
¼- 14.643
mph- 95.43


So this concludes my write up and don’t flame a product you haven’t tested yourself. I think it’s a nice power adder for $60 - $120. Just think, them JDM fog lights cost $70-$100+… talking about useless and wasted money… Get off the bandwagon and start thinking for yourselves.

--
Brad

 

me for not reading the whole thing but it seems that the 2 runs are not very fair to compare when concerned with how much power a SINGLE mod can make. Don't you think that the header, test pipe, advanced timing, and better octane fuel had more to do with the better ET than the intake itself.

Not trying to flame, just seems like a weighted comparison to me.

 

reading this write up gave me another reason to never buy a front mount intake... sorry dude

 

haha, thats no real proof, go to a dyno, dynos dont lie

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIMPASSBEOTCH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you got too much time on your hands to be typing that much...get a girl or a job. </TD></TR></TABLE>

haha sorry... my girl is at work.. and today is my day off. Its raining outside so i was bored. I knew i would get flamed, just not this bad lol. I kinda did it hoping some people would come forward with real evidence on what the intake has to offer. But only people with remarks have come forward.
just like Ive added "and the flame most have to offer"

Oh well.. I'mma just buy both intakes again for my new setup and check it out and do a better write up. This write up was kinda a waist of time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by synergy004 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ALthough a lot of people dislike it I have found it to be a good system. Check out the forced induction site. Well we have one here in TX on a 95 coupe EX sohc vtec. The car only has a header and the FMIS, stock exhaust and no other mods. The car runs consistant 15.5's. We tested this versus the ice man and the AEM. They both fell short. Everyone wonders about the length of the tubing. Actually the length seems to build velocity as lay off the throttle. As far as rain we just added the air bypass valve and use the shield it comes with. This car is actually the first in TX to have one installed. It was bought before advertising and when it was not known. It looks good to some and not to others. The sound after full velocity builds is great. You can hear it loud when at idle. If you have any other questions just email me.
synergy004@aol.com

hope this helps even though its not a GSR swap.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Flamed............ F*** everyone atleast this guy had the ***** to try it and not worry about someones views about it were. Dude if it's running a 15.0 with out it and running 14.5's with it I could care less how it looks or what people say. They're just the ones thinking their headers and rear section exhaust will given them major HP #'s. Just like when I blew up my turbo ZC motor I got alot of " I told you it would blow up " But not many people can say they had a turbo honda motor or even got as far as to have one on there car's. So many people in this game just do what everyone else does and doesn't try to be different. Keep spending money at your local performance shop and being raped by their prices.. it just makes my wins that much sweeter when I beat you and spend half as much , didn't half *** the install , and actually I do my work and not oh so and so does all my own work but it's my car. Props on the write up and forgtet about what fools think most of them just make fun cause everyone else does and they're affriad of being blasted.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Typesi2nv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Too Many Bends? These intakes are for N/A applications and come with 2.5” diameter pipes with “smooth” bends. The Average TB is 55mm-60mm (2.25’ - 2.5”) so why does it need to be any bigger then that anyways unless it’s a highly modified motor that has a larger Tb with a purpose. </TD></TR></TABLE>

#1 - You want the piping to be 25% larger than your TB. This helps make the incoming air navigate the turn effectively in the IM. The average intake is 2.5 -&gt; 3" depending on the motor. The prelude engines really should have larger ones due to their bigger displacement.

#2 - Any time you make a drastic turn, smooth or not, it causes the air to become turbulent. I have seen plenty of these intakes in person, and they all have this problem.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The bends are much like what are used on Greddy, DRAG and HKS Charge pipes for a maximum efficient route from the front of the car to the throttle body. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are compairing charge piping on a forced induction motor to an NA motor? I am sure you understand its completely different and is not a good compairison on why it should work.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It was made with a purpose; more direct and cooler air temps.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It may have been made to have people *think* thats what it did, but it certinly does not.

Once your car is moving, the air tempatures are going to be almost the same regardless if you have a FM, CAI, or Shortram. Neouser on TI has done tests, and they are always with in 1-2 degrees of each other. It takes an 11 degree difference to make a 1% increase in power, so its nothing to even consider.

It doesn't give you more air by any means. There is no lack of air around the filter regardless of where your intake points. Just because you have oncomming air heading towards the filter doesn't mean you are getting any sort of "ram-air" effect. First the piping is facing the wrong direction for it to work, any air being "rammed" in is just becoming turbulent because all of a sudden it has to make a 90 degree turn.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Front Mount Intercoolers are placed in this location for a reason, Maximum Air Flow for Maximum cooling.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Intercoolers work completely different and serve a different purpose than intakes. It is placed in front so the oncoming air can help disipate heat, no get sucked in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
At speeds of 30mph+ the airflow will give you an even cooler and more direct air charge. In theory, doesn’t that mean… More power??? The airflow will have a cooling affect and also help charge the intake pipes to a more efficient flow rate in some way. Not saying you will get positive pressures, but will help neutralize the pressures so the engine doesn’t have to work as hard to intake the air.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

See above, doesn't work.

----------------------------------------------------

Honestly I don't beleave your timeslips are accurate, sorry. Too little details and I doubt any intake would make that big a difference on a non built motor.

I am not flaming you, but you can't just make stuff up and expect it to be proven theory. Front mount intakes don't work for a reason, and its proven. If they did work, we would all be using them period.

 

I've always wondered what kind of adverse affects these things have on operating temperature. You're effectively blocking most of the radiator cooling when it's installed. Heat is the enemy of horsepower and even if there was a performance advantage (which there apparently isn't), it would be presumably negated by the higher operating temps of the motor.

 

I still want to know about this, since weapon*r has a ramjet setup that works in the same fashion. Their intake up front, though, is not as large as some of the front mount intercooler looking ones. But since it is effectively the same concept and they offer it as an upgrade to their short-ram type intake, along with a heat shield, they think as you that it is an improvement. And they compare it on the dyno (their test, granted) to AEM, Injen, Comptech. One difference is the piping, in weapon's case not metal tube but something plastic like a dryer hose (they say is heat resistant). Personally i like their setup better because it is discrete and keeps the people from flaming you on your intake.
regardless, if you do the setup again, do another write-up and try to compare them evenly. why are only a few companies putting the front mounts out?
below: it's a name.... like spoon i guess


Modified by Jagan'92 at 2:20 PM 7/30/2003

 

I would never buy anything from any company with a name like Weapon-R....just my stance on the subject.

 

I have a supercharge gsr. What would a front mount intake do for me ???? Not saying i am going to get one. just curious

 

Nothing.. these intakes are not designed to perform well, period.

They play on false ideas that consumers have how intake systems work.

 

1/4 times say jack **** for a power addon.

Dyno's speak of the differences.

 

you all talk **** yet NONE of yall even have "dyno" proof YOUR crazy idea is correct. hipocritical MUCH.

"they suck and dynos prove everyting"
-- oh really?
-- have you used one?
-- have you dyno'ed one?
-- do you have a dyno chart to share with us? THEN GET ONE!

"they are wanna be FMIC's"
-- you have an active imagination...
-- they were designed to be an intake
-- a intake is AN INTAKE!!!!
-- some are better then others. BUT WHERE IS THE DYNO PROOF!
-- stfu about stuff if you dont have facts yourself.


once again. thanks to all you people that like to Flame and act like A-Holes on <U>HONDA-TECH</U>

This is a tech site, If you wanna be a " hater " then go join a f-ing colt

The original post was just tryign to get the point out about WE NEED MORE INFO ON THE PRODECT because their is none out there. I did not intend to make a hate thread for you all to bash me with your waisted words. Now quit acting like a much of immature computer gurus and do what this site was intended for. HELP spread REAL data about a product that has been given a BAD name by a lot of haters that havent used the product, havent dynoed or SEEN a dyno of the performance aspects.

once again... thank u much honda-TECH. This site is goign down hill. too f-ing bad the "mods" can't get in control and make it a "real" technical site for Honda/Acura owners to come and Help or be Helped or spead REAL data. It seems like this site is now overwelmd with people thinging this site is for the people with high post counts and lack of knowlege.

spanks a million..

LatA

 

you guys haven't even used the product but you continue to diss it based on the rumors of other people. not very helpful in the tech department.

i don't believe the product is bad. it is basically a long tube with a flat filter on the end of it. if that's a bad thing, why in the hell do so many cars have flat air filters instead of conical ones? has anybody thought of how the increased surface area of air that is delivered might affect the intake's performance? or is this strictly limited to the intake tube size or does velocity have anything to do with it as well?

perhaps you guys should have asked those questions in an email to the makers of the product or any motoring experts in here. yeah it's basically a wannabe FMIC to fool idiots on the road, but it's still an intake after all, and people keep saying AND proving size, width, diameter and velocity make a difference. anybody have any meaningful insight?

 

I gave you plenty of proven, factual reasons why this intake is not benifical.

You are the one who is trying to spread misinformation with this thread, not anyone trying to point out the reasons why this product does not work the way you think it does. This is not something you can come up with your own theories and think it will work.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i don't believe the product is bad. it is basically a long tube with a flat filter on the end of it. if that's a bad thing, why in the hell do so many cars have flat air filters instead of conical ones? has anybody thought of how the increased surface area of air that is delivered might affect the intake's performance? or is this strictly limited to the intake tube size or does velocity have anything to do with it as well?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its bad for the following reasons

1 - The piping is way to small. The optimal size for the intake pipe is 25% larger than the TB bore. This is a *PROVEN* theory.

2 - The piping is too long. Yes longer piping increases intake velocity, but you can go to far. Imagine sucking water through a straw, now make that straw twice as long. The engine is essentially an air pump, and it has to do just that.

3 - Too many bends. These bends cause turbulence in the air, this hurts performance. This again has been proven.

People *think* its benifical because it sits in front of the car where air is rushing straight into the filter. This isn't benifical though, because regardless of where the filter is there is no lack of air. This intake doesn't induct any more air because of its location period.

Once you get up to speed, the difference in tempature is no different regardless of where the filter is mounted.

Once the air does get into the filter, it has to make a 90 degree turn. This causes the air, from the start, to become highly turbulent.

It just don't work the way people think it does, period.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Typesi2nv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The bends are much like what are used on Greddy, DRAG and HKS Charge pipes for a maximum efficient route from the front of the car to the throttle body. Bends in the intake pipe shouldn’t be a problem unless your motor is the problem.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

D'oh, comparing charge piping from a turbo setup to a N/A intake system? A turbo setup is greatly pressurized within the piping and works completely different from a N/A intake.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poison &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1/4 times say jack **** for a power addon.

Dyno's speak of the differences.</TD></TR></TABLE>

On a side note.

Races are won by quarter mile times, not dyno charts. Unless of course you're only doing dyno competitions....

--
Tom

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by real9999 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

On a side note.

Races are won by quarter mile times, not dyno charts. Unless of course you're only doing dyno competitions....

--
Tom</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I know that, but you can't say any product is better than another by comparing 1/4 times. barometric pressure, humidity, altitude, and especially driver comes into play.

 

Typesi2nv, calm down there, buddy. Have a
No one is trying to personally attack you, they're just stating thier own opinions and sharing the info they have , much like yourself.
And for the love of god, DON'T TAKE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR ON THE INTERNET SO SERIOUSLY!!!

 

If there is never a lack of air why are there hood ducts? If the air inside the engine is the same temp. as outside, why is my intake tube so friggin hot? How much longer is the piping on a CAI than that on the FM intake really? Twice as long? Don't know.....
Anyone know of turbulence defusers inside the pipes? Some intake tubes have these, mine for instance.
Granted - at driving speeds we can't really expect to RAM air into our engine like a jet - but wind speed does lower temperature - and increase pressure (denser), so there may be some gain in this setup.

 

I think more effort went into the original post than designing the intake. It's junk for several technical reasons not because of the original posters flame fetish. he called it.

the "tests" leave typesi with no credibility at all. Make 3 changes and attribute the "gain" to an e-bay special?!?! give us a break.

 

Hmm,

personally, I agree that its not going to make any difference. If behind the large filter, the intake tapered to a output directly inline with the air-flow, it would help, with the side exit its a big turbulence issue.

A note, though, dyno testing wouldn't necessarily tell the differences between them, if there is, in fact, any 'ram-air' effect.

I'm an automotive engineer here in Motown.. anyway a few years back, I worked for a year in a chassis dyno. Not talking about the little toy dynojets & mustangs, talking about a real dyno that we use in the industry. single rolls, 8ft in diameter(twin roll dynos cause usually about 4-6% extra parasitic loss over a large diameter single roll dyno, through tire friction). Anyway, one of my jobs was to study the airflow accuracy versus field data. Even with a 175,000cfm squirrel cage blower, we coudl never get airflow correct like real world testing. This was a study done with about 20 anemometers and over 60 thermocouples. The airflow and various temps underhood(and also fuel temps....this was when I worked for Walbro working onfuel pumps) just never coudl be simulated correctly.

So, on a dyno liek most people are actually tuning on, the air flow and temps aren't going to matter much. Its simply going to measure the efficiency of the filter and piping.

That said, I think that filter probably probably actualyl flows less at high speed due to turbulence building up in it. If the area behind that flat plate filter was maybe 16" deep, smoothly tapering to a 3" output, then you might get some ram-air effect.

I think if thats what you are after, you'd be better building a large duct in the air-dam, and run that into a cold-air box with a traditional filter.

I'd also be worried about something small, like a 1/4" piece of road gravel penetrating the filter at 80mph..

We got a lotta road salt here in michigan, I know front air dams always get caked in salt and snow and ice.

My, I'm going to run a short ram with a home made cold air box bringing in air from in front of the right tire(in a 91 hatch)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jagan'92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If there is never a lack of air why are there hood ducts? </TD></TR></TABLE> Hood ducts along with underside reverse ducting are meant to pull air across the motor, to help alleviate air temps, and assist the radiator in removing heat.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jagan'92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the air inside the engine is the same temp. as outside, why is my intake tube so friggin hot? </TD></TR></TABLE>
As you so eloquently put it, your intake tube is "so friggin hot" because it's aluminum, aluminum conducts heat like any metals, that it picks up off of the running motor...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jagan'92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyone know of turbulence defusers inside the pipes? Some intake tubes have these, mine for instance.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm assuming your talking about the AEM V2? If so, they're not diffusers, it's a Helmholtz resonator, which I'm sure you understand.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jagan'92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but wind speed does lower temperature - and increase pressure (denser), so there may be some gain in this setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wind speed does not lower temperature, or make the air any "denser"..colder air is more dense, hence the main reason for a CAI in the first place

To TypeSi2nv,
your right, this is Honda- <U>TECH</U> thats why when you inquired, people gave TECHNICAL explanations of why this isn't a good product. Your explanations lack technical backing, or even any technical understanding for that matter...And I'd watch who you disrespect around here. Talking back at poison is a nice way to get yourself a certain "reputation"
just my $0.01
~james