I have a B18C1 that I recently purchased and I was going to have it rebuilt by RS Machines. Recent financial issues (i.e. no job) have deemed this impossible. What I need to know is if I can use 81mm or maybe 81.25mm pistons and new rings with a cylinder honing only. Would I still get a good ring seal?

Also, is it manditory to check bearing clearances after removing the rods and crank from a 65K mile engine? Will these bearings be a liability if I don't check clearances and replace them?

 

Someone can help me, right?

 

You can use a stock bore piston without anything but a hone, provided that your cylinder walls are in good condition. If there are any gouges or scratches in the wal that you can catch with your fingernail, you're going to have to bore them out. You will not want to use any pistons larger than stock without having a machine shop bore them to the correct spec for pistons you plan to use.

Are you putting on new pistons and rods? I would definitely recommend getting new bearings either way. If you're changing the rods, you will definitely want to check the bearing clearances. I think it might be possible to reuse the bearings if you aren't changing the rods... but please don't do it. Its relatively cheap to invest in new bearings when you've got your motor torn apart (~$100)... and $100 now is better than $$$ later for new bearings, a new crank and new rods because you spun a bearing at 8000rpm and destroyed your motor. I recommend ACL's... one-size-fits-almost-all setups.

 

If you going to hone them you you might as well hone them out to something worth your while. I would go 83mm or 84mm at which point your gonna have to resleeve them and get the same size pistons and rings to go with them. Is there anything wrong with the cylinder walls? if not I would leave them as is and get a block gaurd considering your financial condition. Also I believe its worth it to replace the bearing anytime you do something of this nature. A few bucks here is a lot better than hundreds or thousands later on.

 

Since $$$ is an issue, if your walls are in good condition, you can buy (or possibly rent) a honing bit (for use with a regular drill) from your local auto parts store and hone the cylinder walls yourself.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Redlineracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there anything wrong with the cylinder walls? if not I would leave them as is and get a block gaurd considering your financial condition.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How are these two related? Don't block guards just hinder heat transfer? Also most of the lateral loading on the cylinder takes place further down the bore.

Btw if the cylinders look good(i.e. cross pattern still visible and no lip at the top of bore) you can get away with a hone and stock bore rings. I'd suggest purchasing a flex hone, the one with the wires and dingle berries. As for honing fluid automatic transmission fluid will do just fine.

On the bearings get some plastiguage. It's cheap and if the engine only has 65k the bearings should still be within spec.

 

I appreciate the input guys. About the ACL bearings, how are those one-size-fits-all? I think I'm going to just have it bored and honed .25mm over so I can use my P73-A0s.

Just a few more questions.

Do the main bolts need to be replaced or are they good to go?
Is the "special tool" to drive in the crank oil seals necessary and where can I find one?
What are the key things I should do and look for with the block rebuild?
Any tips on how to make this as smooth and cost effective as possible?

Again, thanks for your help!

 

With ACL's, you don't have to match any sizes to your stock bearings.... you just put them in. Plastiguage them to make sure eveything is right, but very few people have had issues with the clearances being off with ACL's (I don't personally know anyone who has had a problem with them).

Main thing: get a HELMs manual (if you don't already have one). http://www.helminc.com. The best purchase you will make.

 

ok, first if you have never honed/have experience then i wouldn't use my baby as a guinea pig.take it to a shop, honing is cheap and for the same price they can do .25 over for you.
as far as bearings i use acl's and the quality to me is as good or better than honda, on my engine they plastigauged right were i wanted them (.015 and .017 for #3).
But you check your stamps on block/crank to see if they will suit your needs, if not you could mix acl's with oem's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Main thing: get a HELMs manual (if you don't already have one). http://www.helminc.com. The best purchase you will make.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can attest to that. Although I permanently borrowed my Chilton's from the library and paid $5 for a Del Sol S/Si/VTEC FSM when I worked at Honda. The best aquisitions I ever made, no doubt!

One more question:
Would I have to totally disassemble the head to have it milled and cleaned?

 

if you can do the disassembly/assembly yourself then I would.(im **** about cleanliness of engine components) If you have it done at a machine shop then they should have the proper methods of cleaning: ie: hot tank, etc. Just be sure to remind the shop of that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1_bad_EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you can do the disassembly/assembly yourself then I would.(im **** about cleanliness of engine components) If you have it done at a machine shop then they should have the proper methods of cleaning: ie: hot tank, etc. Just be sure to remind the shop of that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd hate to disassemble the head down to nakedness. I'm a perfectionist, so a naked head is a dangerous invitation to do a total rebuild that I can't afford. I just wanted to know if the hot water and solvent in the hot tank would damage the valve stem seals or it milling the head with the valves in could possibly hurt them of throw metal shavings into the head. I'm also **** about having a totally clean car, even the parts most will never see...

 

why do people in this post keep saying hone out the cylinders to increase bore size, i thought the only way was to bore them out. or is the same tool used when doing both of these procedures? im in the same boat as him with a b18c, how much should a bore and hone cost around ?

 

Yo, dylan, dont put the head in a hot tank with seals still on it. Did you get your car back yet? Are you shipping the motor to you house instead of RS? Dude, give me call, I have been getting some great ideas about intake manifolds for you...Oh, and you SHOULD be able to hone .25 over, barring any discrepencies in cylinder wall shape.

 

You're correct: you don't hone to increase bore size... ou simply hone to 'break the glaze' (sto to speak ) on the cylinder walls. You hone so that the new rings will seat against the cylinder walls.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notstock93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yo, dylan, dont put the head in a hot tank with seals still on it. Did you get your car back yet? Are you shipping the motor to you house instead of RS? Dude, give me call, I have been getting some great ideas about intake manifolds for you...Oh, and you SHOULD be able to hone .25 over, barring any discrepencies in cylinder wall shape.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Vince, they have all the parts ordered down at Metro, but they haven't started yet. I went down there and took the wheel off yesterday and it looks pretty bad. Willwoods are intact, and the Tein also appears to be, but it looks like I'm gonna have a Volk Racing planter on my hands! The subframe, knuckle, radius rod, control arms and fender are fucked. The strut tower also got pulled down about 3". I wonder if it can all be repaired... I hope so.

The motor and tranny are coming to town this week with my gf's dad. I'm gonna have all the machining done somewhere locally (they can't screw it up that bad, can they?) and you and Hung are helping me with assembly and the swap. I've already decided that for you. RS Machine is just to much for me right now. I'll get in touch with you. How do you like you headlights?

Will hot water only damage the seals? I thought the solvent might, but it's not really needed to clean the head.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since $$$ is an issue, if your walls are in good condition, you can buy (or possibly rent) a honing bit (for use with a regular drill) from your local auto parts store and hone the cylinder walls yourself.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i wouldn't

 

Bring it on, dude. What are you doing this weekend? Im totally down with helping you build the **** out of this engine for almost nothing...I can stretch a dollar REALLY far. Your fender is toast? I thought your frame was moved, but I didnt think your actual body panels were messed up...how the kaminari?

 

I would.... if I wasn't taking the block in to the shop for any other reason. I know multiple people who've honed themselves, and their motors run fine.

Having that said, if you're taking the block in its much better to get a machinist to do a hone.

Tweakmeister: you should give him a reason as to why "you wouldn't"

 

I have my own reason: I'd **** it up somehow! I really don't feel comfortable handling any aspect of the machining. One slip up and then my block is screwed. I'm going for a full rebuild and this motor needs to last another 100,000 miles. I can handle the assembly, but that's where I draw the line!

Anyway, I appreciate all of guys' help. Thanks!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since $$$ is an issue, if your walls are in good condition, you can buy (or possibly rent) a honing bit (for use with a regular drill) from your local auto parts store and hone the cylinder walls yourself.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't either. Your hand can't be as precise as a machine. I had my done at a machine shop. They measure for a taper and check out lots of important aspsect of the motor. Pay the extra dollar, it will save you money in the long run. I know from alot of shitty experiences.

 

I definitely agree that its better to have a machine shop do it... that's what I did.

But, I know multiple people who've done it by hand. If you're not going to pull your motor out of your chassis to do the build, then you can just hone it with a bit. I know of many successful engines that've been assembled still in the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I</TD></TR></TABLE>

I should explain, sorry. The DIY hone kits like those are no where near as precise. On most older domestics (even Hondas) it's fine, but on newer Hondas they have different and much more precise specs. I'm on the boat of doing it the best I can the first time for maximum power.