im about to get a tranny with a kaaz lsd i was wondering what kinda fluid you guys use... i was thinking about using some syn 80w-90 with lsd additive...

 

I've had good results with Redline MTL + Ford Fric modifier....

though I wonder if the GM syncromesh with their LSD additive will be just as good if not better...

juss remember to change it frequently.... every oil change ..the tranny fluid should be done as well.

Don't ask me how or why I know...... (3 tranny rebuilds and change later...)

 

Where would I find the Redline MTL? I've been using Honda MTF and Ford friction modifier and it has worked pretty good, I'd say better than the Kaaz fluid.

 

http://www.redlineoil.com/


Click on (Our Dealers) and it will show a list of places that Redline is sold.

 

you definitely need the friction modifier if you're not using Kaaz's pricey 80W90 GL5 rated gear oil. I had used Redline 75W90 without Redline's friction modifier and the clutch plates never grabbed as well despite proper break-in procedure and changing of the oil after the break-in and at Kaaz's recommended schedule.

Mobil 1 makes a 75W90 GL5 synthetic gear oil as well. I currently use the kaaz oil just as a no brainer after I switched back from a 2 way to 1.5 way. Ray's a pretty good resource at Newport if you just ask him...really good guy...

 

Redline MTL is only a GL4. Aren't you worried about wear?

 

go with the kaaz. they have them in stock. and not too expensive. the fluid is made for there lsd.

 

I just purchased GM synromesh friction modified for mine today. Paid 9.99 a quart. I will be putting it as soon as I get my oil changed next week. Ill let you guys know how it works. From what i've heard its top of the line.

 

how many qt. do i need?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fd3st04r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go with the kaaz. they have them in stock. and not too expensive. the fluid is made for there lsd.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Their fluid is good if you run on the track (lots of heat) otherwise it's like putting molasses in the tranny.....it's too thick for daily drivin' IMO, while the fluid might be good for the LSD....it's not good for the syncros cuz it's so heavy.

Again.... dun ask me how I know..... I can already hear the A&J guys laffing someplace.....

 

that has been my experience. The kaaz fluid f'd up my syncros.

 

i've been using Castrol 80w-90 with Ford Friction modifier and its worked just fine for me for the past 15,000miles. i change fluid ~5000 miles. next change i may give the GM stuff a try and see how it does.

 

i got some stuff called
Sta-Lube Limited-Slip Hypoid . SAE 80w90 Gear oil API/GL-5* PLUS

On the back it says to fill manual transmissions, with hypoid type diffs, limited slips/ twin grip/trac-lok/sure grip differentials.... wondering if this worked.... also it says NOTE: " Some manufacturers require an additional additive for their differential to prevent chatter, noise & vibration. Use sta-lube Equa-Torque (SL2411) to meet this requirement..... wondering if i order this will everything work rite?

.... or if i have to return it and get some mobile synthetic 80w90 and some other friction modifer... speaking of which where in the hell can i get it!?!?

 

bizzzump?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RagingAngel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Their fluid is good if you run on the track (lots of heat) otherwise it's like putting molasses in the tranny.....it's too thick for daily drivin' IMO, while the fluid might be good for the LSD....it's not good for the syncros cuz it's so heavy.

Again.... dun ask me how I know..... I can already hear the A&J guys laffing someplace..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

that's weird. when I used the Redline synthetic 75W90 GL5 gear oil for LSD's without their friction modifier, my 4th gear synchro fried (first symptom was that it popped out of gear). Gave me a chance to convert the 2 way back to 1.5 way. Ray at Newport tells me I was the first Canadian customer for a Kaaz LSD and back then I decided to try a 2 way instead (being drag racing oriented back then)...I learned the hard way about the understeer issues. Anyway, I guess my point is that even with the 75W90 gear oil, the synchros also did the "surrender" trick.

So you trade LSD clutch wear with a 75W80 GL4 not being to able get into the crevices of an LSD at high temp. for saved synchros? Is this the compromise?

My advice is if you aren't going for the kaaz hypoid oil then definitely add a couple of capfuls of friction modifier in the mix at the very least with your gear oil. I can't really comment on the use of GL4 vs. GL5 in a daily driven LSD.

What does ATS, Cusco, and Mugen (other clutch pack LSD's) use in terms of LSD oil?




Modified by Michael Delaney at 9:35 AM 7/26/2003

 

hrm thats bad.... what oil should we use then to prolong the life of the syncros?

 

here's the info off the Redline site:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LightWeight Gear Oil - a 75W/80W GL-5 gear oil designed to lubricate transmissions and transaxles which recommend 80W GL-5 gear oils. It has excellent low- temperature flow which allows easier shifting when cold. Also has good synchro compatibility. May be used to obtain maximum power transfer in racing differentials which do not see high temperatures.

SuperLight Gear Oil - a 70W/75W GL-5 gear oil with the viscosity of an ATF. This is used when temperatures are not high and when the maximum power output is required such as in qualifying laps.

DIFFERENTIALS - Red Line 75W90 Gear Oil provides excellent protection in nearly all differentials, conventional and limited slip, in both racing and street use. 75W90NS can be used in certain limited-slip units in racing to lock-up the differential. 80W140 should be used in commercial hauling, problem limited-slip units, racing applications which see tremendous torque at low speeds, and where noise deadening is desired. LightWeight or SuperLight can be used to obtain maximum power transfer in racing differentials which do not see high temperatures.

TRANSMISSIONS - MTL® can be used in most manual transmissions and transaxles for both street and racing use unless the manufacturer requires the additional protection of an SAE 90 or the extreme-pressure protection of a GL-5. In those situations the MT 90 (GL-4) or 75W90NS (GL-5) will provide good shiftability and synchro compatibility and extra gear protection. LightWeight Gear Oil can be used in transmissions calling for a 75W or 80W GL-5.

Limited-Slip Differential Friction-Modifier/Break-in Additive is a friction modifier designed to reduce limited-slip noise and to aid the proper break-in of any differential. This can be added to any gear oil to reduce temperature during break-in and prevent gear softening. Replaces manufacturers' limited-slip additives. Can be used to perfectly tune a limited-slip unit. Red Line 75W90 and 80W140 Gear Oils already contain this additive . The recommended nominal mixtures are: for drive axle break-in use: 8% of the total lubricant capacity and for normal lubrication of a clutch-type limited slip differential: 4% of the total lubricant capacity.

ShockProofTM Gear Oil - a unique lubricant containing a suspension of solid microscopic particles as an extreme pressure agent. The viscosity characteristics allow the lubricant to resist throwoff and provide a film thickness greater than an SAE 250 grade, with the same low fluid friction as with our 80W140. Recommended for offroad racing and problem gearboxes.

MTL® Manual Transmission Lubricant: a 70W80 GL-4 gear oil (SAE 5W30/10W30 engine oil viscosity) designed for use in manual transmissions and transaxles. Provides excellent protection of gears and synchronizers and its balanced slipperiness provides a perfect coefficient of friction, allowing easier shifting.


MT-90 Manual Transmission Lubricant: a 75W90 GL-4 gear oil designed for use in manual transmissions and transaxles. Provides excellent protection of gears and synchronizers and its balanced slipperiness provides a perfect coefficient of friction, allowing easier shifting.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

So Redline has added to it's product line up a lighter "low temp" 80 weight and 70 weight GL5 gear oil for "street" diffs. This is new to me.

I would choose that over the MTL 75W80 GL4 personally if you don't plan to do any lapping, drifting, or autocrossing.

Not having used it myself, I can't comment on the longevity issues obviously.

So they compromised on the viscosity for high temp protection to allow the gear oil to be thin enough for the synchros at lower temp.

So to answer your question, as long as you don't see high temp often, the way to go is a 75W80 GL5 gear oil with a 4% of the total volume as Redline friction modifier (you'll have to measure it out but my recollection is a couple of capfuls should do it...it took about 3L for me to fill my tranny before the gear oil overspilled to get all the bubbles out).

If you do a bit of autocrossing and lapping use the 90 weight gear oil. Again, here is another example of where the street car can't be a race car. If you are using kaaz's 90 weight oil, you don't have to add any friction modifier.

I don't have mobil 1's most recent material safety data sheet to check if it came with modifier already blended in but if it doesn't, I recommend the 4% total volume as friction modifer there as well, especially if your clutch is making that clunking sound as you go around a bend slowly in the pits or parking lot.

If you don't know what a GL Rating is:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

GL RATING

The gear oil's GL rating measures how well it will perform under extreme pressure. Gear oil is manufactured with anti-wear additives to stop metal surfaces from welding together. The GL rating ranges from 1 to 6. Gear oils rated 1 to 4 are considered anti-wear products, whereas GL 5 and 6 products are for use under extreme pressure. A typical situation is the regular transport of heavy loads.

from the CRC website

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has designated a grading system that classifies gear oils by their viscosity. Normally, oils are graded at one temperature (usually 100° C). Winter oils are also graded at -18° C. When the oil is graded at the lower temperature it is given the suffix “W” (i.e. 80W). Many oils are formulated to meet the requirements of more than one classification. Multi-grade oils are designated by two grade numbers such as 80W90. This number indicates the oils lowest and highest grading.

While viscosity is important, the American Petroleum Institute (API) classification is critical in determining proper gear oil. The API has classified gear lubes (GL) into several categories based on applications, properties and additives. The classifications are GL-1, GL-2, GL-3, GL-4, GL-5 and GL-5* (GL-6 has been replaced by GL-5*). Vehicle and equipment manufacturers have specific gear oil requirements and viscosity grades. This information should be specified on the gear case or in the service manual.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I consider thumping your car a lot = "regular transport of heavy loads"

cheers


Modified by Michael Delaney at 10:24 AM 7/26/2003

 

so I was sauntering over to check out the Champion Audi pits when they were here at Mosport because I heard they were tearing down Galati's diff. after qualifying and putting in the race setup. Guess what gear oil they use?:



those are pretty distinctive looking bottles.

 

Michael Delaney, the boards need more people like you.... thanks for the help and good information!!!

 

also these would be the two to get right?

LightWeight Gear Oil - a 75W/80W GL-5 gear oil designed to lubricate transmissions and transaxles which recommend 80W GL-5 gear oils. It has excellent low- temperature flow which allows easier shifting when cold. Also has good synchro compatibility. May be used to obtain maximum power transfer in racing differentials which do not see high temperatures.

SuperLight Gear Oil - a 70W/75W GL-5 gear oil with the viscosity of an ATF. This is used when temperatures are not high and when the maximum power output is required such as in qualifying laps.

75w/80 GL5 light weight gear oil... where can i get this stuff at??? thanks alot

josh

 

75 weight (70W75) GL5 is for special conditions as they stated. Probably a little too light for daily driving...maybe if you like changing for 1 day for a drag race? maybe. but even then probably not. I suggested synthetic 75W80 GL5 above for non-racers with clutch pack LSD's, I believe.

there's probably a Redline oil retailer in your area, especially in California. LOL.

 

So Redline 75W80 GL5 with Ford friction modifier is good?

 

"back in the day" when I used my KAAZ, Redline didn't release the oils you posted up esp. the lighter weight GL5 so I went with what suited me which was 85% on the street driving with some spirited romps here and there.

ATS uses their own oil, Endless makes good stuff from what I hear apparently...though I'm not sure what Mugen recommends.

I'd stick with what's now available from Redline.....It's done me well in the past despite being a GL-4

 

So for the stock diff, is the Honda MTF good enough to do the job.

note: My car see frequent autox'ing.

 

just to be clear: everything we've posted in this thread is for an LSD and NOT a stock diff.