Wasup honda fans i need your help guys. I'm about to order Toda Spec B cams for my ITR. On my ITR i have a AEM cai, jdm type r headers, and apexi N1 catback exuast, Apexi Vafc, AEM fuel regulator and fuel rail and skunk 2 cam gears. I know that the Toda cams are great but on the toda website they said that you have to use the toda valve springs. Is this true??? Is any one using the spec b cams??? What do u guys sugget?????

 

if you stay below 8600 revs, stock springs are fine.

you'll see 15-20hp ish gains in the mid range and around 10-15 peak hp gains.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you stay below 8600 revs, stock springs are fine.

you'll see 15-20hp ish gains in the mid range and around 10-15 peak hp gains.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree, you need toda (or at least upgraded) springs due to the increase in lift on the cam (not to mention that you will want to raise compression a lot to maximize the cams). It's expensive to run them right, don't say I didn't warn you.

 

Go for the full head package (springs, retainers), and the stronger belt (PE or TODA), you'll kick yourself if it goes **** up because of something you should have chnaged failing.

 

you will see some gains, but to max the potential of those cams, a nice P&P job with a mill to up the CR. those cams love high compression.

 

Yeah get the compression upto 12.1-12.4:1 to get the best out of them, it's no coinsidence that TODA's pistons give 12.x:1 CR

CTR pistons will give you around 12.3-12.4:1 CR and are a cheap route.

That said it's all going to mount up, my bills have, just the Honda parts cost make me cringe.

 

Spend your money on a good header and exhaust instead (if you're not going to change compression ratio).

You will get similar power gains from the stock cams.

See Grandpa's dyno chart.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah get the compression upto 12.1-12.4:1 to get the best out of them, it's no coinsidence that TODA's pistons give 12.x:1 CR

CTR pistons will give you around 12.3-12.4:1 CR and are a cheap route.

That said it's all going to mount up, my bills have, just the Honda parts cost make me cringe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
nuh uh... CTR pistons in a b18c5 will get u 11.8:1 give or take. my gsr crank with b16 head and ctr pistons (which is about the same thing) have about 12:1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allmtr: now at 95% &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
nuh uh... CTR pistons in a b18c5 will get u 11.8:1 give or take. my gsr crank with b16 head and ctr pistons (which is about the same thing) have about 12:1</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lol, here we go again. Steve, where are you........?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type R Bob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I disagree, you need toda (or at least upgraded) springs due to the increase in lift on the cam</TD></TR></TABLE>

I put ~8k miles on Toda B's with stock valvetrain, compression, etc. Fuel tuning was controlled by V-AFC.

Did it make more power than stock? Definitely.

Was it making as much power as it could have? Definitely not.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allmtr: now at 95% &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
nuh uh... CTR pistons in a b18c5 will get u 11.8:1 give or take. my gsr crank with b16 head and ctr pistons (which is about the same thing) have about 12:1</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you take into account the difference in compression height between the ITR and CTR pistons. If you use the CR calc on cspeed without taking the difference in compression height you get about 12.1:1 but if you take the compression height into account (change the Piston-to-Deck Height to 0.010) it is nearer 12.4:1 CR

compression height in image form (images copied to avoid stealing bandwidth)



Modified by RICHJ at 8:36 PM 7/23/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You will get similar power gains from the stock cams.

See Grandpa's dyno chart.</TD></TR></TABLE>

"Grandpa's dyno chart" includes the use of Hondata and a full port and polish I believe.Not that I'm saying you shouldn't go down that route but these things have to be taken into account.

 

I believe if you are going to go TODA Bs then you should go the whole hog. This is my list:-

TODA B Cams
TODA Cam Gears
TODA Springs
Ti Retainers (Portflow)
CTR Pistons
JDM 2.5" collector style header
2.5" hi-flow cat
2.5" custom exhaust
Comptech Icebox
K&N Filter
RC 440cc Injectors
PowerFC (and FCCommander, hoping to order FC-Dataloggit soon)

Crank, Flywheel, Pulley, Rods, Pistons balanced (rotating)
New valve guides, seals (where the oil was going), recut valves

Doesn't include the Honda parts, I replaced Oil and water pumps, all bearings, all gaskets, etc...


Modified by RICHJ at 7:46 AM 7/24/2003

 

I disagree, you need toda (or at least upgraded) springs due to the increase in lift on the cam (not to mention that you will want to raise compression a lot to maximize the cams). It's expensive to run them right, don't say I didn't warn you.


Once again, stock springs at factory rev limit will work fine.

 

"Grandpa's Old Dyno Chart" included only the Icebox, and SMSP pieces.

He is now running with the worked head, etc.

 

it will be safer if you get toda valvesprings, u know, just to be on the safe side, dont want nothing to happen 2 your motor now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Splat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I put ~8k miles on Toda B's with stock valvetrain, compression, etc. Fuel tuning was controlled by V-AFC.

Did it make more power than stock? Definitely.

Was it making as much power as it could have? Definitely not.</TD></TR></TABLE>


but pat you were a stunna and your car never saw anything over 4k.....

 

i understand all of ur views im not tring to go all out, im not tring to get new pistons and stuff the only thing i wanna change is the cams so if the spec b are to much for the motor then i will get the spec a's or skunk2 stage 1.

what i wanna ask is what cams are the best to get when keppin ur internel work on a ITR stock

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


but pat you were a stunna and your car never saw anything over 4k.....</TD></TR></TABLE>



4k? Daily. 8200? Only occasionally. Like Yack said, stay out of the limiter and it will be fine

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Crank, Flywheel, Pulley, Rods, Pistons balanced
</TD></TR></TABLE>

definatly, would a neutral balance on all the individual parts be sufficient, or should you do a rotating balance on the whole assembly?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I believe if you are going to go TODA Bs then you should go the whole hog. This is my list:-

TODA B Cams
TODA Cam Gears
TODA Springs
Ti Retainers (Portflow)
CTR Pistons
JDM 2.5" collector style header
2.5" hi-flow cat
2.5" custom exhaust
Comptech Icebox
K&N Filter
RC 440cc Injectors
PowerFC (and FCCommander, hoping to order FC-Dataloggit soon)

Crank, Flywheel, Pulley, Rods, Pistons balanced

Doesn't include the Honda parts, I replaced Oil and water pumps, all bearings, all gaskets, etc...</TD></TR></TABLE> dyno chart?

 

I want to know the same thing pretty much. On B18C5 with say, a clutch and lightened flywheel, toda header and t1R cat back, comptech Ice box, a hi flow cat and say a vafc or hondata, which cams will give you the best performance for daily driven and occasional track days. (based on stock internals) I think thats what he is trying to ask. He wants to get the most power out of his motor by only adding cams as far as internals go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I disagree, you need toda (or at least upgraded) springs due to the increase in lift on the cam (not to mention that you will want to raise compression a lot to maximize the cams). It's expensive to run them right, don't say I didn't warn you.


Once again, stock springs at factory rev limit will work fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Let me rephrase: can you? yes. Should you? I don't think so. To those who have done it, check your cams after you pull them out of the car as compared to cams run w/ Toda valve springs and tell me what you see.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type R Bob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Let me rephrase: can you? yes. Should you? I don't think so. To those who have done it, check your cams after you pull them out of the car as compared to cams run w/ Toda valve springs and tell me what you see.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My cams were used when I bought them. Looked 100% perfect. They looked 100% perfect when they were removed after 8k miles on stock valvetrain. NO wear whatsoever.

Wouldn't Toda valvesprings put *more* wear on them than stock, due to the higher forces needed to actuate the valves?

 

so you guys think i should go with the toda spec b's but stay out of the revlimiter. Or just be safe and go with the spec a or skunk 2 stage 1