Here is the link requested by Frank.
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D
Frank is driving the 240SX at a DE event in ButtonWillow.

Just to recollect on the incident:

Shaken up from the close brush with the F-car, I figured it would be a good idea to back off the Teg until the passing zone. After MagicMountain, the Teg unpredictably hit the brakes in a section where he's not suppose to. Unsure of his driving, I backed off and awaited for him to signal a pass. I began to position my car on the left side of the track for the coming straight when Frank made the pass. I was unprepaired for his actions and upset at the time. I will refrain from personal comments as I've alreay resolved this with Frank.

It would be nice to see the public's take on this?

[edit]
Frank, if you wish for this matter to stay private I will remove the link.


Modified by Raymund at 4:38 AM 7/20/2003

 

Frank probably doesnt want to hear this from me but....

1 - still driving student's cars at DE events *in student groups* is such a terrible idea. I thought we'd covered this already?

2 - That was as unsafe a pass as you can make in a DE event. No point by, flying through the inside of the turn. In a race group, pass wherever you have room. Not there. Not while the two cars you're passing are already executing a pass.

3 - I've seen this behavior at NASA-VA events. The end result is always the instructor being tossed for the weekend. I hope frank did not continue to drive (his car or anyone else's) or get in a student's car at the event.

 

Frank requested that you post that?

There was no signal given by the whatever car the video was shot from?

Just want to verify.

 

Since you asked for our opinion...

As someone who'd never done HPDE before, I can say that pass would have spooked me a little bit. I had to watch the clip again to really see how quickly it really happened. The silence in the camera car leads me to believe they were a little shocked.

I don't see the need to be so critical about the 'event', but that's just my opinion.

 

I was expecting the camera car to make a pass and that 240 came out of no where.

 

GR wanted to reevaluate the incident and has written a short summary in his fact/fiction page. Maybe I should have just sent him a link although I'm curious to see everyones take on this and I'm sure he is too.

On a side note. Much thanks to the f-car driver. There's a strong chance that a would have colided with him if he had try to move out of the way. It must have taken a lot of restraint on his part to behave in a predictable manner for both the teg driver and me.

 

i'd take the video down, matters such as this only cause arguments on here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU1337 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd take the video down, matters such as this only cause arguments on here.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I agree.
First off, sorry that happened to you Raymond. That sure was a ****-filled lap for you, although cudos to avoiding that F-car is what looked like a perfect line through there. That came up fast! Actually, your driving looked great that whole video, nice and smooth! Bottom line is that if I were you Raymond (driving a focus?), I would be super pissed. Although GR may have the cash to be able to write off his car, I sure as hell dont. Most of the HPDE drivers drive their street car, and need it to drive home at the end of the day. If someone pulled some stupid **** like that on me, and caused me to wreck my car and/or hurt myself,passangers,other driver(s),other passenger(s)... then yea. Quit that **** GR! Go w2w if you want to be superman.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siisgood00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Although GR may have the cash to be able to write off his car</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats the problem. He doesnt, and its not even his car and has asserted that if he wads up a student's car its no big deal its their problem to deal with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siisgood00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> if I were you Raymond (driving a focus?), </TD></TR></TABLE>

'00 Celica GTS acutally.

Man, I'd be pissed if I was the one getting passed that way.

Scott

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats the problem. He doesnt, and its not even his car and has asserted that if he wads up a student's car its no big deal its their problem to deal with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ummm... ok.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by celica73 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

'00 Celica GTS acutally.

Scott</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh cool, I thought that thing sounded pretty mean for a Focus!

 

I understand your points, and I realize that its not fair to anyone to jump on their case just because everyone else is. I was stating my points just from watching the video alone. I dont know any of the people involved in the incident, but I can tell you the action taken in the 240SX was dangerous, and most likely severely unexpected.

About your comment about those cars who are 5 sec faster... I'm sorry but thats though ****. Its still a HPDE. If you are really 10 whole seconds faster than someone in the advanced for instructor group, turn pro. Remember, just because you are in the advanced group dosent necessarily mean that you are fast.

 

If Frank had passed me like that we would of had words. That was Crazy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU1337 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd take the video down, matters such as this only cause arguments on here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. (But, can you wait 'till I finish downloading it? )

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL... Actually, in this case, they <u>were</u> pros.

These people really were that fast. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Then what was the big deal? What did they expect running a lapping day at the Expo?

All im trying to say here is that a HPDE is what it is: a place where you can cruise around at faster than normal speeds in a controlled environment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL... Actually, in this case, they <u>were</u> pros.
These people really were that fast. </TD></TR></TABLE>

George you really need to start running advanced, at summit there was a vw cabrio that I <U>lapped</U> almost every session, and then there were cars that would pass me like I was standing still, Warren, the white porche that couldnt stay on track, and others. The speed difference is to be expected, and is not an excuse for stupid driving.

 

No you didnt really say it was a big deal, other than it puts the faster driver "seriously off his game."
And yes it is definately a 2-way road, but I would give precedence to the slower driver. Its a lot easier for the faster driver to drive slower than the slower driver to drive faster.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I agree. It might also mean, it seems to me, that you should be experienced enough to know that you will be on the track with fast cars, and that you will have the presence of mind to look out for them.

I think we might've been diverted by a side issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point here.

 

The guy in the blue Integra used to be or still is a member of H/T. I've met him before.

While on the race course, I have been in both situations such as the ones Raymund experienced and I must say I can understand him being shaken. Other than that, I've seen this almost every time I go to the local tracks. Faster car comes up on slower traffic and the slower car will not give the point by. What is going on in people's heads?

 

Just because the Teg didnt give the point by dosent mean that Raymund or GR can take it upon themselves to make the pass. It can be annoying to get tied up, but it is a HPDE and those things happen.

 

I don't know Frank, nor have I ever met him, so could someone tell me if he instructs around here (MD/NOVA). Because I don't know him I don't want to accuse him of anything, but I would want a different instructor if I was given one that wouldn't feel bad about crashing my car.

 

He lives in Cali.

 

There's always going to be cars paced at varrying speeds in any given group. Be it beginer, advance or even a race. In most case, it's usually 100 cars shoehorned within four groups. Running a faster pace doesn't give you previlage to make exceptions to the rule. The teg was the one holding up Frank not me. It would have been proper track etiquette for him to wait for me to make a pass first. The gesture thrown by the teg driver was my cue to pass. I gave no such signal to Frank and had no need to. I would have no such problems letting cars by if it clearly shown I has holding traffic.

 

Ah, no problem then, thanks JMU.