VTEConly

When I ordered the springs along with new Advance Design shocks, the GC guy and I had agreed on 7" long springs. The rates are 650F and 750R.
I received the 650s in 7" length and the 750s came in 6". Does anyone else have 6" in the rear? Especially on an Integra?

The only reason I see them providing a 6" spring in the rear is because the rear of the car is lighter and it won't compress the spring as much, especially when it's a higher rate.. Whereas in the front which is much heavier, and the spring rate I ordered is "moderately light", the spring gets compressed more, so they give you and extra inch.
Anyone else have any other input or a better explanation why the 6" for the rear? Is there an advantage of having a 6" spring vs 7" with my spring rates?

I called GC this morning and they said that they recommend the 6" when it comes to 700lb/in. & up. They just look so tiny.. The ERS that are on my car now are 8" in the front and 7" in the rear but they 're between 400-500.
Also the ADs came with a full length bump stop! I didn't expect that. I thought they 'd be half lenght or shorter.. The GC guy's answer to that was: "they 're long because you 're supposed to hit the bumpstops all the time". That's when I ended the call.

0philstireservice

I run 6" 1200lb in rear ....works great

VTEConly

1200? is that all?
but I bet your car is used for road racing. This is mainly for auto-x. I would think I want a little compression when turning, no? 6" sounds to me like it 'd be really hard to make a 750lb/in. spring to compress at 30mph. I 'm just guessing.. I 'm probably wrong though..

GSpeedR

I would be worried about inadequate load on the spring such that it could cause the top hat to bind if the spring displaces laterally (improper seating). Since you have GC's you can thread pretty high to avoid this.

On my G2, a 6" spring would not be anywhere near long enough.


Modified by GSpeedR at 3:00 PM 7/18/2003

Tyson

6" is fine on my crx (900lb). certainly isnt long enough when lifted in full droop to not rattle, but neither would 8".

i suppose what they are saying about the bump stop is that they utilize the bumpstop to make the springrate progressive.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSpeedR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On my G2, a 6" spring would not be anywhere near long enough.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even 7" in the rear was a bit too short. I went to 8".

RJ

Tyson

i know for fact 6" work fine on integras actually. ive seen em used fine.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know for fact 6" work fine on integras actually. ive seen em used fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This was on a G2 that was driven to the track... i wanted to keep ride height reasonable.

Tyson

blah, just try it and tell us how it works out.

JeffS

I've got AD shocks on my civic and I run 7" rear and 8" front. 7's in the front left the car very low (tires tucked) with the lower spring seat all the way up. I'm sure 6's in the back would leave me in the same situation.

These are ITR model shocks though so maybe that makes a difference.

VTEConly

so you guys are saying the springs may rattle when I 'm driving on the streets because it's possible they won't be compressed at all and the top urethane hat may even become displaced?

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEConly &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so you guys are saying the springs may rattle when I 'm driving on the streets because it's possible they won't be compressed at all and the top urethane hat may even become displaced? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The top hat isnt displaced. What happens is they will rattle against the lower perch because they get unloaded over speedbump and bumps on the highway.

Watkinsm3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The top hat isnt displaced. What happens is they will rattle against the lower perch because they get unloaded over speedbump and bumps on the highway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Or when it lifts its leg to **** on a cone for that matter. Harry... I just talked to Chris and I'll pass on what I told him... I think 8s up front and 7s in the rear are fine. I run 8s all on all corners for swappablility if I so choose so that would be my suggestion. As for rattle/spring displacement ? As soon as I get back from Topeka this year (I don't want to touch the suspension between now and then) I'll be adding helper springs to clean that up.

My 0.02

VTEConly

thanks Matt. Chris sent me a a page and a half of your IMs. Ignore my e-mail. I thought I had sent it like 2-3 hrs ago, but it was sitting in the background because it got busy at work and I never clicked on 'send'..

Shoot. This means I won't have this stuff up on the car for another 2 weeks. I 'll see if GC can expedite the springs. It's their screw up anyway. I had asked for 7" springs all around.

VTEConly

Called GC. Eibach doesn't make a 7" 750lb spring. I asked for 8" all around (650F/750R) but they tried to persuade me to keep the 6" and was told not to listen to others, blah blah blah. He says he did the calculations and the 6" is perfect for the rear. Then he tells me: You haven't been listening to me in the last 20 min. So he insults me on top of that.. I told him that the statement he made was insulting to me. Then he says I insulted him by not listening to what he 's trying to tell me, which is: that the top hat won't bind, the springs do not move at all (yeah right!) when hitting bumps or when at droop, I 'm going to love the 6" springs, and I should give it a try, etc. etc. PLEASE spare me! Then he goes on and on how I 'm listening to people that don't know what they 're talking about, blah blah. I told him I spoke to a National Champ too (Chris S.). He doesn't care. He says: "regional, divisional, national, doesn't matter.. " He said he 's the suspension and racing expert. Yeah, they have 1 Civic and they keep throwing that at our face, like everyone that works there races that 1 Civic.. Does he have a g3 Integra? Does he race it with 6" 750lb springs in the rear? That's what I want to know. If he said yes, then fine I 'd keep what they sent me..

Got pulled into an emergency meeting as he was telling me that he was willing to ship all 8" springs with next-day delivery (Monday) so nothing was accomplished or concluded with that call because I had to hang up. That was really a distrurbing phone call and I cannot believe I got insulted and pretty much yelled at multiple times, when I never asked for 6" springs. The should 've told me in the beginning that they don't make 7" 750lb ones. I asked for 8" or 7" whichever ones they had in stock. Watch out for Dale. He has a temper and can be abnoxious and insulting. I don't know why these people are in a customer service oriented business. I didn't spend $1860 (with ADs) to get insulted by this guy and being told that my friends and people I get advice from, don't know squat... Oh, and then he says, "you shouldn't be driving the car on the street at all! Race cars are not street driven.." What do you say to this guy? He kept talking to me about 1,000 & 1100lb springs, and I kept reminding him that I have an auto-x car, not a roadrace one.. I 'm glad I got called to a meeting because I was getting to the point where I 'd lose my temper. This is the first time I had a bad experience with GC. Well come to think of it, I normally order stuff from them and pay them. This is the first time I wanted to return something.. it figures. They 're nice when they want your money, and not when they don't make anything out of the deal.

GSpeedR

I have 8" rear springs. When I bagan lowering my car from the jackstand, the upper spring was not seated with the hat, because it's too short. As I lowered it further, it finally does contact the upper hat. When it's completely lowered (at the height I want it at), it is properly seated and the spring is compressed. As I was lowering I noticed that the spring was displaced a little bit such that it could seat improperly. This is all that I am discussing when I say "binding". I saw it with my own eyes. It was not an issue with my car, because the springs are plenty long, but I think it's something that you should should consider if trying a 6" spring.

VTEConly

Yeah I have 8" ERS springs now and I know exactly what you 're talking about. That is not what concerns me. What concerns me the most, or actually what I 'm trying to understand is, will the 6" spring compress less than an 8" spring when driving around on the street, thus giving me a really rough ride. I think the answer is yes, and that an 8" spring in the back would make the ride more bearable because it would compress a little more and allow the shocks to do some damping. I think I might use the 6" springs just to try them out though and then maybe go to 8" to see if there 's a difference. What the hek, it's only money right? I 'm sure coil binding shouldn't be an issue.

Matt: What's that formula you use? Can you calculate the travel before coil binding and the force required for such an ugly thing? The calculations you gave to Chris were based on a 600 rate, not 750.. Or is it as simple as adding 20% to those #s?

.RJ

A spring will not compress less because of its length nor will it have any factor on ride quality. Thats what the spring rate determines.

For a street driven autocross car i'd lean more toward a slightly taller spring. If the 6" spring does work for your application and you can set a correct ride height with the spring perch, it will work fine - however in this case it seems you could use a longer spring and just adjust the perch down on the sleeve a little more.

Tyson

why all this speculationa and trouble. just put the stupid thing on and see. remember also that AD shocks are fully threaded, which may or may not be the same length as a normal GC sleeve, so all comparisons are off when ppl are giving their input. and yes, the integra i did see a 6" 1200lb spring mounted work on a AD rear shock. just try the damn thing, quit causing arguements and tell us your findings. if it THEN doesnt fit, you have full righ to bitch. if youre going to be stubborn, stop doing it out of ignorance.

oh and by the way a 6-inch, 800 lb per inch spring is still going to compress the same inch per 800 lbs as a 8-inch, 800 lb per inch spring. get it? the difference between the two would be distance til coil binding, and quite frankly, youre fine in that respect. the shock would not see any difference.


Modified by Tyson at 4:03 PM 7/18/2003

HondaCivicEx98

If after u installed and set at ride height that u like, and find out when the car at full droop have play between the mount and the spring, then having a longer spring with the same rate wont help. If u just swapped the longer spring without adjusting the spring seat, sure u can get the spring preloaded but the ride height is higher then what u want. So in turns, u need to adjust the spring seat lower to get the ride height u want and u spring may eventually leave the gap between the mount and the spring.
If u have this problems, u best way is to get a helper spring, so that u wont have have at full droop.

krshultz

I have 6" 1000lb springs in the back and it works fine. But they're at a fairly severe rate (nothing for Phil here though ) and as a result just don't compress much. There is a good deal of "slop" when the car is on jackstands between the spring and the lower perch. I don't much care.

With a softer spring though, I'd say 6 is a bit on the short side. I'm with Tyson - put 'em on and see if they're workable.

Sorry to hear you had bad dealings with Ground Control. I had great luck with their customer service, but that was many years ago.

VTEConly

Thanks Karl and Tyson. I made my decision several hours ago before your posts, to give them a try and confirmed my appt. to have the car corner weighted tomorrow as well because I 'm tired of driving an unbalanced car. Should I drive around for a few miles to get the suspension settled before putting the car on the scales?

DB2-R81

Typical GC service here is the part number for EIB0 700-225-0750 7" X 2.25" X 750LB EIBACH ERS SPRING EIBACH $65.00

Not only did they insult you they lied to you!

On my G2 Integra I run 8" all around 650 in front and 850 in back on AD dampers. Yes, drive the car a bit to let the dampers break stiction on the top seals, and the springs to settle into the upper spring mount rubber before you corner weight. Also keep an eye on the upper piston rod seals, the first set I received lost a seal after 3 Solo II runs. When returned, GC accused me of using vise grips on the piston rod to install them. Haha! If the damper were not so nice I would have turned the whole deal over to the CC company and let them deal with GC. Most times I think Jay and his employees are on drugs when they answer the phone.




Modified by DB1-R81 at 7:24 PM 7/18/2003

VTEConly

I actually spoke to Jay too on my first phone call early this morning. He was much more curteous and treated me with respect. The other guy (Dale?) was the one I had problems with and his attitude.
Anyway, the 2nd guy DID ask me after I was insisting on 7 or 8" springs, if I wanted a 2.25" spring. I said no, not really. Again in his abnoxious way he said, "well why not, they 're lighter, why wouldn't you want a lighter spring?" I said no thanks I feel more comfortable with the 2.5" ones. He didn't say that Eibach makes a 750 in 2.25.. He just simply said Eibach doesn't make a 7" spring in 750 earlier in the conversation, so I assumed he was trying to talk me into a different spring rate and a lighter spring.

Was the shock with the broken seal, leaking fluid? There was one guy at an auto-x event 2 weeks ago, with a weird squealing sound that was coming from one of his rear ADs (on a Miata) but we couldn't find any leaks. The noise was internal to the shock when we pushed down on the suspension. He only had them for a few weeks and had done 2 auto-xes on them.
GC told me a month ago when I ordered mine that they 're working on a more "streetable" AD shock for auto-xers that drive to the events. They 're supposed to have more heavy duty parts in them that can withstand regular street driving and the shocks won't require "maintenance" as frequently, which I take it he meant they won't break that quickly. I thought IT cars beat the hek out their ADs because some tracks really suck plus they 're going a lot faster with them than we would on the street or auto-x.. I don't get it.. I guess they 're just trying to improve them which is a good thing and maybe next time we get our old ones rebuilt, they 'll put some of the new parts or seals on them when they come out with them.
Too bad there's noone here that has had both 6 & 7" or 6 & 8" springs to tell me their experience or differences. If I don't like the results I 'm getting, I 'll most likely switch to 8" next year and report back.

DB2-R81

Hello VTEConly,

You wrote;
"Was the shock with the broken seal, leaking fluid?"

Yes, it was very visible and the gas charge was gone. Anyway once you get them setup I think you will be very happy with there dampening qualities. Did you have them valved for the springs you are running? Did they send you a dyno graph of their valving? I would be curios to see the dyno differences from my setup. Once I got the problems straightened out with the leaker I have been very pleased with their performance and qualities.