Building a street prepared car
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From: calgary, Canada
Building a street prepared car
Hey everyone, as some of you know I just started solo2 this year and b/c of my coilovers I am in the street prepared class. I don't intend to do anything to the car this year because I am just gonna concentrate on the driving aspect of it.
However, I would like to learn how to build a competitive or relatively competitive car in DSP. How would I go about doing this maximizing the preparation pts? This of course will be a slow process as I intend to slowly mod the car up and learn how to drive it at the same time, but I would love to hear what some of you will do if it were you.
thanx
However, I would like to learn how to build a competitive or relatively competitive car in DSP. How would I go about doing this maximizing the preparation pts? This of course will be a slow process as I intend to slowly mod the car up and learn how to drive it at the same time, but I would love to hear what some of you will do if it were you.
thanx
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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: Building a street prepared car (SuperRice)
The best advice I can give is to find somebody with a known competitive car and ask to co-drive. I say this for several reasons. First, the Civic EX is outgunned by the GSR - you'd be wasting money to build an all out DSP car. Second, building a DSP car is expensive, regardless of what platform is being used. And third, it takes a level of skill that is beyond most of us (when we start out) - you can learn more by seeing what a more experienced driver does with his own car - and if you're codriving, you'll get to feel the changes as well.
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From: boldly scornful of higher mental function, US
Re: Building a street prepared car (SuperRice)
My advice would be to go find the guy/girl who is beating you, and pick their brain. Ride with them, get setup tips and tire pressures from them, etc. Seat time will be your biggest asset, so get as much of it as possible. Tires and suspension are more important than power in DSP, at any rate. Good luck.
If that fails, you could always co drive. Lord knows the only way I finish in the top 5 is in someone else's car.
If that fails, you could always co drive. Lord knows the only way I finish in the top 5 is in someone else's car.
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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: Building a street prepared car (madhatter)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If that fails, you could always co drive. Lord knows the only way I finish in the top 5 is in someone else's car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly my point. Now, co-drive and pick brain and eventually you might figure out what/why/how to build your own.
Exactly my point. Now, co-drive and pick brain and eventually you might figure out what/why/how to build your own.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: Building a street prepared car (SuperRice)
Maybe I can give you some insight into this route since it was the one I chose myself. It is not an easy road to learn to drive and learn how to properly setup a street prepared car. This has taken the majority of my time & loads of cash (you might as well buy a dump truck now to remove the money from your bank and deliver it to retailers' hands).
Where to begin? A little history? I attended my first autocross in march of 2001. The car was stock except for a set of 16" SSRs, Intake and a strut tower brace. Not knowing any better I ran the car in DSP. I was hooked... I did about 20 events that season. Convinced the car was slow and not me the driver I added a header, exaust, a swaybar to the back, a Koni/Ground Control Kit and some Kumho "R" Compounds. This was enough for me to win a race or two here and there by the end of the season.
Having actually read the rules for my second season I realized how under prepared the car was for DSP. I ran the begining of 2002 in STS (about 12-15 events). I changed my spring rates for this season as well. I was competitive, but could never grab the win (locally). Finally in the begining of June of that year I made the ireversable jump to DSP. I added a LSD, Flywheel, clutch and, of course, 13x8.5 wheels with hoosiers. I attended another 40 events that year in DSP trim including two national tours and the National Championship in Topeka. Got my a$$ handed to me...
We're almost current now, bear with me... After some research and driving a fellow DSPer's car I decided to revise my setup for 2003. New Advance Design shocks and new spring rates rounded out the suspension. ITBs and a Tec3 went on the motor. I just did my 4th event of the season and the car appears to be competitive now.
If I had to do it over again? (this is, of course, a trick question since I didn't know what I know now when I started) Anyways, Here is what I would start with :
1 : A good suspension setup (this is very hard to do when you're starting out)
2 : Tires (Street tires in STS till you get to step 3)
3 : LSD, Clutch & flywheel
Once that is sorted (and this is the problem with starting out... you think its sorted but its really not) you can continue...
4 : Any weight reduction you can do.
5 : Add some power on. In the begining I'd say stick to Items that will reduce the overall weight of the car. Weight is one of your biggest enemies in Autocross. (example : Replace stock iron manifold with a lightweight header)
6 : EDITED and added to step 3...
7 : Exotic power stuff.
8 : Keep tuning things...
Having said that though... you have coilovers? run STS while you build up the car and get it dialed in. This ended up being much longer then I had planned. Anyways, I hope it helps... Let me know if you have any questions.
...and for the record... I spent WAY too much money!
Modified by Watkinsm3 at 4:32 PM 7/9/2003
Where to begin? A little history? I attended my first autocross in march of 2001. The car was stock except for a set of 16" SSRs, Intake and a strut tower brace. Not knowing any better I ran the car in DSP. I was hooked... I did about 20 events that season. Convinced the car was slow and not me the driver I added a header, exaust, a swaybar to the back, a Koni/Ground Control Kit and some Kumho "R" Compounds. This was enough for me to win a race or two here and there by the end of the season.
Having actually read the rules for my second season I realized how under prepared the car was for DSP. I ran the begining of 2002 in STS (about 12-15 events). I changed my spring rates for this season as well. I was competitive, but could never grab the win (locally). Finally in the begining of June of that year I made the ireversable jump to DSP. I added a LSD, Flywheel, clutch and, of course, 13x8.5 wheels with hoosiers. I attended another 40 events that year in DSP trim including two national tours and the National Championship in Topeka. Got my a$$ handed to me...
We're almost current now, bear with me... After some research and driving a fellow DSPer's car I decided to revise my setup for 2003. New Advance Design shocks and new spring rates rounded out the suspension. ITBs and a Tec3 went on the motor. I just did my 4th event of the season and the car appears to be competitive now.
If I had to do it over again? (this is, of course, a trick question since I didn't know what I know now when I started) Anyways, Here is what I would start with :
1 : A good suspension setup (this is very hard to do when you're starting out)
2 : Tires (Street tires in STS till you get to step 3)
3 : LSD, Clutch & flywheel
Once that is sorted (and this is the problem with starting out... you think its sorted but its really not) you can continue...
4 : Any weight reduction you can do.
5 : Add some power on. In the begining I'd say stick to Items that will reduce the overall weight of the car. Weight is one of your biggest enemies in Autocross. (example : Replace stock iron manifold with a lightweight header)
6 : EDITED and added to step 3...
7 : Exotic power stuff.
8 : Keep tuning things...
Having said that though... you have coilovers? run STS while you build up the car and get it dialed in. This ended up being much longer then I had planned. Anyways, I hope it helps... Let me know if you have any questions.
...and for the record... I spent WAY too much money!
Modified by Watkinsm3 at 4:32 PM 7/9/2003
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From: The Original DSP Integra
Re: Building a street prepared car (Watkinsm3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Watkinsm3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After some research and driving a fellow DSPer's car I decided to revise my setup for 2003.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Biggest mistake I ever made?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...and for the record... I spent WAY too much money!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Much more than me, and I'm still faster!!
You are getting it dialed in tho...
As for the original post...run STS a while, work on the driver, then if you have a small fortune and you really want to come play in DSP, follow Matt's build-up.
Good luck.
Mike
Biggest mistake I ever made?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...and for the record... I spent WAY too much money!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Much more than me, and I'm still faster!!
You are getting it dialed in tho...As for the original post...run STS a while, work on the driver, then if you have a small fortune and you really want to come play in DSP, follow Matt's build-up.
Good luck.
Mike
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 950
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: Building a street prepared car (RacerMike)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerMike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Biggest mistake I ever made?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most likely, I still have to learn to drive it...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerMike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Much more than me, and I'm still faster!! You are getting it dialed in tho...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
All in good time...
Biggest mistake I ever made?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most likely
, I still have to learn to drive it...<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerMike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Much more than me, and I'm still faster!!
You are getting it dialed in tho...</TD></TR></TABLE>
All in good time...
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Re: Building a street prepared car (Watkinsm3)
The only change I would make to Matt's build up plan is do the Flywheel and Clutch at the same time as the LSD. You are already in there and a Flywheel will make more of a difference then you can imagine.
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: Building a street prepared car (Crosser)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only change I would make to Matt's build up plan is do the Flywheel and Clutch at the same time as the LSD. You are already in there and a Flywheel will make more of a difference then you can imagine. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You know... That's the way I did it. I'm not sure why I separated it out. Anyways, good addendum.
You know... That's the way I did it. I'm not sure why I separated it out. Anyways, good addendum.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: calgary, Canada
Re: Building a street prepared car (SuperRice)
I knew I could always count on you guys for some good advice. I'm starting to think maybe it's a better idea to just sell the coilovers and go with a shock and spring set up and run in a lower class and polish up my skills till I can afford to get another car.
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From: Surrey, BC, Canada
Re: Building a street prepared car (SuperRice)
Since you are in Canada, and run under different rules, you should maybe focus your questions to other Canadian competitors. http://WWW.VCMC.CA has tons of info about your questions. I run an 89 Civic STD in CSP.
For those of you south of the border, our SP class is quite different from yours. We base all our classifications on prep points (ie: a header is 2 points, an LSD is 1 point, Coilovers are 3 points, and up to this year were not permitted in Super Stock, the class one down from SP). Our SP calsses are like your Prepared class, but no slicks, and the prep is a little less extreme.
If you look carefully at the rules for this year, and depending on what rules your club is using, you might discover that the coilovers are legal in DSS under CACC rules for 2003. They are not yet in the rule book, but they are legal for sure. You have to take the 3 points, but that still leaves you 3 more points in DSS (6 points allowed).
Is your car Vtec? I can't remember for sure. If it is, you get to swap an SiR DOHC Vtec drivetrain into your chassis without taking any points in DSP. If not, you're pretty much stuck with the D16Y7 block, since the non Vtec 96-00 Civics are in FSP.
If you have any more questions, feel free to PM/email me.
For those of you south of the border, our SP class is quite different from yours. We base all our classifications on prep points (ie: a header is 2 points, an LSD is 1 point, Coilovers are 3 points, and up to this year were not permitted in Super Stock, the class one down from SP). Our SP calsses are like your Prepared class, but no slicks, and the prep is a little less extreme.
If you look carefully at the rules for this year, and depending on what rules your club is using, you might discover that the coilovers are legal in DSS under CACC rules for 2003. They are not yet in the rule book, but they are legal for sure. You have to take the 3 points, but that still leaves you 3 more points in DSS (6 points allowed).
Is your car Vtec? I can't remember for sure. If it is, you get to swap an SiR DOHC Vtec drivetrain into your chassis without taking any points in DSP. If not, you're pretty much stuck with the D16Y7 block, since the non Vtec 96-00 Civics are in FSP.
If you have any more questions, feel free to PM/email me.
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Building a street prepared car (SuperRice)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperRice »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I knew I could always count on you guys for some good advice. I'm starting to think maybe it's a better idea to just sell the coilovers and go with a shock and spring set up and run in a lower class and polish up my skills till I can afford to get another car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The way I see it is that you'll get better in whatever class you compete in. However, you will improve faster with stiffer competition and always ask for rides and ask the top dogs to ride with you.
The way I see it is that you'll get better in whatever class you compete in. However, you will improve faster with stiffer competition and always ask for rides and ask the top dogs to ride with you.
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From: socal, ca, US
Re: Building a street prepared car (Watkinsm3)
hey Watkinsm3...are Tein HAs too harsh or overkill for the kind of racing you went through? i pretty much have everything setup on my EF except for tuning, clutch and flywheel...i have a GSR swap with a LSD tranny...bottom end is built, head has type R cams and cam gears...no valvetrain though...not yet...any suggestions?
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: Building a street prepared car (acydphryck)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by acydphryck »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey Watkinsm3...are Tein HAs too harsh or overkill for the kind of racing you went through? i pretty much have everything setup on my EF except for tuning, clutch and flywheel...i have a GSR swap with a LSD tranny...bottom end is built, head has type R cams and cam gears...no valvetrain though...not yet...any suggestions?</TD></TR></TABLE>
unfortunatly I have very little experience with Tein products. I will say this tho... if the suspension is not properly prepared ANY shock/spring combo has the potential to be harsh or perform poorly. Harshness tends to be a result of inadequate or over damping of the springs. Mostly the shock is not valved properly for the springs that it is using.
The car you're mentioning is more a street modified car then a street prepared car.
unfortunatly I have very little experience with Tein products. I will say this tho... if the suspension is not properly prepared ANY shock/spring combo has the potential to be harsh or perform poorly. Harshness tends to be a result of inadequate or over damping of the springs. Mostly the shock is not valved properly for the springs that it is using.
The car you're mentioning is more a street modified car then a street prepared car.
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