I'm in the market for a Rex and will prolly venture down B16a swap road once I begin the modding. I currently own a VR6 equipped Jetta. The HP numbers expected from a long block rebuild with all the strength components can vary. I'd say anywhere from 200 to 300 HP, just from a rebuild using stronger than factory parts ie. pistons, rods, cams, and using OE crank.

I really want a CRX for it's power to weight ratio and practicality, tunability, and huge aftermarket. The only thing that would keep me from going with this car is a limit on potential horse power. So, is it possible to easily achieve between 200 and 300 HP just on a bottom end rebuild? By boring out the block, installing stronger parts, increasing displacement and with the usual bolt-ons?

Thanks,
Ant

 

no...not with a d16a6, with the b16a yes you can get 200hp to the flywheel by doing what you said.

 

Gator,

ummmmm, I don't think I ever mentioned a D series.

What I'm looking for is at least 250HP and at least 200 ft lbs of torque to the wheels not the crank. I know that 200 HP to the crank is attainable without a sweat, but I'm looking to surpass that considerably.

Another Q: How big can I bore out a B16A to get the max N/A HP and best possible pistons in there?

One more Q: What kind of HP are the most impressive CRX owners pushing to the wheels out there?

-Ant

 

Whew 250 hp/200 ft lbs torque NA? Big goals there. I think there is a CRX putting out around 220-230 hp to the wheels, it is either JUN or Spoon Sports I forget, dont take my word on it though..I think the only way to hit those #s would be FI, or at least itd be a lot cheaper to do so, but with big money anything is possible.

 

Why even go B16A? If you have the money then go for the B18C1 or B18C5...I'm starting to think that I should've saved a bit more and went with a B18C1.

 

Okay, so then let me ask: what is the best engine to go turbo? Let me also state that I'm not in the money so to speak. I heard that the B18B or B18C are the best possible all around ie. forced induction or all motor. Is that true?

How much HP can I expect from a B16A and a turbo strapped onto it? I know that I'm missing information regarding the different components that I would be including in the mix with the turbo, but just in general, what's the average HP with a B16A and what about other engines?

-Ant

 

I have seen a few b18c1 with around 290's to 300 horse power with FI. That is on the stock internals. With a built engine, a world of wonders will await you.

 

On a B16A you might be able to get 200 at the wheels with a lot of work. There's no way you'll get more than 130-140 lbs/ft of torque on a B16A N/A. Just go with a B18C1 engine, build it up to handle boost and turbo it.

 

Thanks, so I could fit a B18C1 in a 2nd gen CRX?

 

obviously...since it was stated above about using the b18c1 or c5.

 

Check out http://www.crvtec.com before you make your decision.....this engine is the the B18 block but with 2.0 litres (as opposed to the tegs 1.8) and a buttload of torque...you can do a frankenstein combo with the B16 head, the engines aren't in high demand so the come cheap like 1300 for the longblock, I've read numbers as high as 185 to the wheels with just the frankenstien combo...and 210 whp expected with a Type R components build...so no telling what you can do with this engine.

 

what about the d16 mini me swap. for a couple of hundred dollars you could have a mean sohc vtec by just swapping the head. what around 130hp??? for 300$ +/-

 

i'll 2nd that why not build a wicked d-series it can be done ! chk out last months scc they did an article on killer n/a engines, and bizi ezerio's civic made 215 hp to the wheels with a built d-series.


[Modified by sohc_boy, 3:11 PM 7/31/2001]

 

Would it be worth the trouble if the D engine had alot of miles on it?

 

I'm aiming for around 200 whp myself, and it will cost some bucks .....

I'm also very anti-LS-CRV/VTEC for the reliability thing ..... the amount of success stories is far overshadowed by the amount of people that blow their motors!!

The only way you'll get 250+/200 is to go FI.

You can get a streetable 215-220 all motor out of a B18C with some serious cashflow. But you also have to worry about bottoming out your header since you will need one with massive primaries to get that kind of power, and the B18 block sits lower than the B16.

Both Hytech and SMS make a B16 specific header to help avoid this problem as well as get big power out of the engine all motor.

 

crxgayder,

Thanks for wasting, oops, I mean thanks for the info.

If I did go with a B18C, I'd prolly buy a 5th gen HB. It'd be so much easier. And the concept of being able to get a quick, but not so expensive and practical car is what attracted me to Honda. Being that I currently drive an expensive as hell VR6. Just too much for it's aftermarket followings.

So cash is a factor with this upcoming project especially since I'll be attending Wyotech this January and will hardly be able to hold a job. I'll need something less draining on the greens.

The B18C1 sounds like a good place to start. I'm guessing the parts themselves will not be too expensive. I'll be in a school with all the tools a wrench turner like me could wet dream about, so money usually spent on labor will be saved.

How much would you guys say a complete N/A B18C1 long block with all necessary parts will end up costing me? Remember, I'll be doing all the installing. Not to mention block prep work. Yeeaaaah!

 

and how was my info not usefull, why because you really cant do anything that you wanted to the engine and make it have 200-300 whp. and also because i pointed out that your a dumbass and needed to read **** before you posted a stupid *** question. go back to working on shitty as VW's you "***" (only using words that ignorent people like yourself would use) KRAUTBOY!

 

Gatorbait,

Stop wasting oxygen for the rest of us that deserve to be here. No but seriously, if I set you of by saying that i didn't mention anything about a D series engine back at the top, then you, my foe, ought to take a couple notches off the size of your freakin head.

I can see how you thought I meant a bottom end build up of the original CRX motor, but I meant the B16A1. So stop killing more of your pathetic time on earth and do something worthy. And stop wasting my time.

 

"I'm in the market for a Rex and will prolly venture down B16a swap road once I begin the modding."

prolly-meaning probably-therefore i gave you two options to think about, being a nice person that i am with decent amount of knowledge i answered both scenerios whether or not you are staying with an A6 or going the B16a route.

"I really want a CRX for it's power to weight ratio and practicality, tunability, and huge aftermarket. The only thing that would keep me from going with this car is a limit on potential horse power. So, is it possible to easily achieve between 200 and 300 HP just on a bottom end rebuild? By boring out the block, installing stronger parts, increasing displacement and with the usual bolt-ons?"

once again i have answered your question. you are just thick headed, are ignorent and have no tolerance for something if you dont get your way or the answer your looking for. thus, in this case, you start saying stupid **** to try and alieve yourself of the disappointment and the fact that you have no clue about this at all. just like the people who always ask about making the crx awd with a civic wagon drivetrain and etc. so please shut the **** up, and dont speak unless you have something useful to say cause really you dont at all, KRAUTBOY.(and yes i went down to your level with that comment, maybe it will get into your head that you are a bitch)

 

Get the **** off my nuts already. Hopefully, the rest of the Tech-ers on here wont be so much a waste of life and help me to build a fast CRX or 5G. Perhaps I'll see you one day and we can have a real race fight.

Aside from all this can someone tell me the differnece between a B16A1, 2, 3's etc?

Thanks, to the order of all besides Gatorback.

 

I think BOTH of you guys really need to relax here.

The B16A is a nice engine in the cheapness factor, but if you're going F/I you'll be wanting to do some internal work, considering the C/R is so high (10.2:1). The B16A2/3 are both 10.4:1 CR, and they're probably harder to find. They're also OBD I and OBD II respectively, which means that not only would you have to deal with shitty OBD-equipped ECUs, you'd have to change all your wiring harnesses to accomodate the OBD-style plugs (which are OBD-generation specific). In case you're curious, the B16B is the JDM Civic Type R engine, which is (I believe) rated at 190hp, 130 tq. Good luck finding one.

Now, if you plan on going F/I with a cheapie budget, then I'd suggest a B18A/B. The '94+ model years have the strongest B18A/B engines, rated at 140hp/130tq. They fall flat on their faces on the top end, and thus are perfect for a turbo engine. The compression ratio is also more F/I-friendly. However, the GSR (B18C1) engine will make more power in stock turbocharged form, due to the higher redline, more aggressive cams, etc. Contrary to popular belief, the high-overlap VTEC cams do NOT hurt top-end power with F/I applications. However, the B18C1 will also cost much more, proportionally. I believe B18A/Bs can be had for anywhere from $500 to $1000 USD. B18C1's, on the other hand, run about $3000-4000 (this is all with engine/tranny/ECU included, all of which you'll need). The extra 0.2L of displacement may not sound like much, but remember that a Swift 1.3 has only 0.3L less than your stock engine. More is definitely merrier.

A turbo kit will probably run you about $3000 for a decent one (Drag Gen III comes to mind immediately). Nitrous, on the other hand, costs roughly $500 for a complete kit and will provide identical results with the downside of a bottle-filling addiction. You can build the engine for NOS, which you're practically planning on doing anyway, and achieve similar results for $2000 cheaper. From a budget perspective, sounds good to me. Personally, I prefer turbos, but you can't deny the cheapness of NOS.

What else... ahh yes, transmissions. Most transmissions are peg-leggers, meaning non-LSD-equipped. A shining example of what you want is the Integra Type R transmission, which comes with a factory gear-based LSD and 4.400 final drive ratio. Problem is, it'll cost you a shiteload of green. I'd suggest picking up a 94- (note, that means OLDER transmission) and dropping in a Kaaz LSD. With all the extra power, you'll be needing it badly. Now, remember to stick to the older transmissions if you're installing the engine into a 2nd gen CRX. This is because the older Hondas are cable-transmission based, while newer transmissions are hydraulic (beats me why they bothered to switch, mine works fine). For that reason the best (meaning cheapest) combo sounds like a 94+ B18B built for NOS with about a 75-100 shot. The ECU should match the engine, and the transmission should be an LSD-equipped cable B18A/B transmission. The FD ratios on these are taller, as are the gears themselves, but you should have the power to overcome that difficulty.

I hope that helped.

 

Wow, thanks a lot. It's beginning to sound like turbo isn't for the faint of wallet. As of now the B16A, B18C or the B18A/B N/A are sounding good. I don't have a lot of money, but then again I'm going to be doing most of the work to the car. Also planning on making this an ongoing project, so time isn't the most important thing. That B16B, is it 16V, DOHC VTEC, AND what's the going price?
If I went early B16A the ECU wouldn't be OBD anything then? So what is it and what's the difference? Pardon my Q's, I'm learning.
The B16B, is IT OBD or non OBD?
With NOS what needs to be done with lets say a B16B in the bottom and top end?And with a B16A, early and late?
What's the difference between B18A and B?
Although the B18 doesn't sound so good do to that drop at the top, but what about with a bottom end rebuild? Could the B18 prove to be indomitable?

Thanks, for now.
Ant

 

I don't know too much about B18A/Bs, but I'll give you what I have.

The B16B is DOHC VTEC, 16V, and will cost you roughly about $4-6k. Definitely a rough figure, because I've never heard of anyone swapping one into a car. For a little more than that amount of cash you could get an Integra Type R engine new from the factory, which is why no one bothers, not because the engine isn't great.

The early B16A engines are non-OBD, correct. OBD stands for On-Board Diagnostics. The earlier model OBD ECUs will actually do things like reset your timing back to stock if you advance it, etc. Basically a pain in the ***. The OBD-II system is like OBD-I, except with an extra O2 sensor (located in the catalytic converter, I believe). Again, it's fairly intrusive and unforgiving to modifications. I don't know if the B16B is OBD or not. Take my word for it, a B16B swap is NOT going to be worth it. You can probably pick up a B16A for roughly $1100 or so. In fact, I can give the website of a company that will provide them complete with engine, tranny, ECU for that price.

To build for NOS you do basically the same things as you would for a turbo - replace or clean up the crankshaft, go with a stronger valvetrain if you want more revs, run one step colder on the plugs, get some new pistons, etc. I forget if you want high-silicon pistons or forged for NOS applications. Shouldn't be hard to find out.

Far as I know the only difference between the B18A and B18B is the cars they came out of. Really, there's no important differences except that the B18B is reputedly more common. A good solution to the top-end problem on a B18A/B is to buy a B16A head, drill the B18A/B block for oil passages, and bolt on the B16A head. This is known as the Poorman's Integra Type R motor, and I believe a standard result is 180hp/130ft-lbs of tq. I don't recommend building hybrid motors like this, though. The major weakness of the B18A/Bs are their valvetrains - they're too weak to take high RPM unless replaced.

That should help for now. Let me know if you have more questions.

 

Reaneshadow,
You mentioned that you can link me with the company that sells B16A's for $1100, is that an early or later B16A? And just to make things crystal clear (cuz I'm retarded) which B16A (1, 2, 3) and from what car should I be looking for? You prolly suggest that I contact that $1100 company for that info, but if you could discuss which exactly is the engine best suited for N/A, NOS and turbo, I'd greatly appreciate it.
The B18C is beginning to sound expensive too. However the B16 series idea seems ideal due to it's easier fit than the B18C (I heard) so it's probably what I'll do. Yeah, I'd like that link to the $1100 B16A.

Thanks
Ant

 

I've heard there is a problem with oil pan clearance when you drop a B18 in a CRX...is this true with all year models?