I try not to post stuff like this too often, but I would like some input especially if you have either option installed.

I just came into some money from work unexpectedly. Decent chunk of change...I just recently did a y8 swap into my hx coupe, and if you click my d series trade link below you will see I have enough parts to put together another y8 to get built, plus a y5 tranny that thanks to marauder's input, I can install a quaife and SRR final drive and have a pretty nice tranny.

Well with the money I just got I can either pick up a JRSC for a $1000 from a friend brand new, plus GSR F/R brake swap & some new shocks. OR...

I have enough to get a complete B20 swap, and sell all my d series stuff. I was thinking along the lines of $600 for all the stuff in my link plus a JDM B16 block and clean crank.

Now I know not alot of people like the JRSC because of the price to power, but I may be able to get it for only a $1000. And from what I heard around town and the occasional Autox event, it is actually pretty fun. I also know most of you guys would say just go ahead and do the B20 swap, but remeber, I only have enough to do the complete swap, no real preformance add ons, so it will be pretty much stock for a while.

Looking at the figures for the JRSC I will have about if not more performance than the B20 stock. So what is the better deal? Have a more complete car for the money with the JRSC + extras, or just the B20 and wait it out for the rest...?

 

b20, it wont be smog legal though

 

Actually, this is just for cali - I sent an e mail to BAR (beauru of Automotive Repair) and asked about dropping a B20 into a civic, if there was any problems with classification...here is the exact email & reply from BAR...

Dear Sir,

I have read and understand the rules regarding engine changes and engine
replacements. However I do have a technical question I need help with.

This has to do with vehicle classification - Would I be able to certify a
97- up USDM Honda CRV B20 engine in a 1997 Honda Civic Coupe? I know I
would need to run all the proper OBD II emissions, wiring, ECU and whatnot.

But if I install this engine to all of the requirements; meeting emmisions
and visual, can I get BAR certification?

All information in this matter is greatly appreciated, thank you for your
time in advance.

Louis


Hi Louis:

If you install all of the emission control equipment required for your
vehicle on the Honda engine you are installing
it will be classified as an engine change. It will be required to pass the
visual, functional,and tailpipe inspection before
it can be labeled. It will be required to be OBDII compliant.

Sincerely,
Editor
----- Forwarded by bareditor/Smog Check/DCANotes on 06/19/2003 08:09 AM
-----


So based on this I think I can do a legal B20 swap, however I also have a call into my local ref to see if i really can get a b20 passed, wouldn't want to do all that work and have it fail badly

 

well i think its written somewhere in stone that you can't swap motors between different classes of cars, i.e., an SUV motor in a car, or a car motor in a pickup truck.

 

I don't know about the BAR and all that but eventually I think you'll outgrow the JRSC SOHC and with the B20 and some time you'd have a killer if you spent the same time and energy on that motor. Think about the possibilities of that built B20/VTEC or str8 B20 turbo or built B20 nitrous. Just trying to help you make the transition to the DOHC side. Oh the possibilities. HA HA HA LOL

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jigga008_99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know about the BAR and all that but eventually I think you'll outgrow the JRSC SOHC and with the B20 and some time you'd have a killer if you spent the same time and energy on that motor. Think about the possibilities of that built B20/VTEC or str8 B20 turbo or built B20 nitrous. Just trying to help you make the transition to the DOHC side. Oh the possibilities. HA HA HA LOL </TD></TR></TABLE>

True, but the BAR certification is important in Cali at least, if my car wants to see the road, If what the BAR guy said is true, you're right I can get the B20 certified, then go NA B20, or CRVtec later... Thing is I'm not really sure what funds will be avail later, since we also have a house that needs some work(my wife's project, lol)

 

Go with the B20 man..Then NA tune that sucker No replacement for displacement plus the JRSC sucks

 

supercharged sohc will be great all around motor and will be smogged legal here in cali. torque on demand, carb'ed legal but you're very limited on boost. as for the b20notec will have many options i.e vtec head(not the best idea) or crower internals with lsd b16 tranny(perfect for auto-x or just having fun on the streets).

either way this will take you about 3-4 months to decide. many phone calls to friends, hot flashes and nightmares and you'll come to the conclusion that the b20notec idea is the best for the cash you have.

btw thanks for posting that letter from b.a.r. about the b20 swap into the civic chassis. i'ved been telling people about the possibility of a b20 carb'ed and it could be resolved by just calling or writing a letter. crv and civic/integras are considered passenger vehicles hence, making the swap possible.


Modified by eg6si at 10:38 AM 7/2/2003

 

ok here is my .02:

who cares about the switch to DOHC. therer are plenty of people on here that will tell you the same thing. there are several good posts on the build up of a SOHC. i personally like this option cause you can get away with less money and out perform most of them. instead of typing a long *** response i am going to direct you to read the following post for all the info you need:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=335078

i personally think that for the money you can build the Y8 to out perform the B20. if you are just wanting to build it for driveability and fun go with the Y8. i would only trouble myself with the B20 swap if you had tons of money and time to invest in it. i know personally of 5 or 6 guys that did this swap in their cars and when they tore into the motors to build them they ran into tons of trouble. if you insist on going DOHC id say stick with the LS motor...its been proven to out perform and last longer than the B20. lastly, if the B16A2 has roughly 130whp (not that 160-170 that most people swear their stock Si has...thats to the flywheel dummy...check wheel horsepower next time and you will realize why i out run you)...like i said if the stock Si motor has roughly 130whp and for less money than a swap you can get brand new pistons, rings and wrist pins from a 89-91 D16A1 engine, pair them with LS rods from the B18 motor, have them shot peened, replace the bearings and rod bolts, upgrade a little on the head and have 12.5:1 compression ratio with no mill on the head and have around 160+ wheel horsepower (depending on what else you do). whos gonna argue with that?

i did this same build up on my gfs 98 EX, including close to what you are talking about with the tranny, as well as a NOS Wet Manifold kit spraying about 100 shot when its actually used....not many cars can keep up, but keep in mind we dont drag race, its a daily driver on 92 octane fuel, nitrous is rarely used, and there have been no problems in a the 6 months this has been done.

hope that helps you out. my opinion on the JRSC...decent, but make sure you change out the rods and everything...especially if you upgrade the pulley on the SC.

 

Go with the built dseries like you were saying man...just my 2 cents.

 

I would go with the JRSC, all that torque run like a 9 PSi Pulliey you will love it, not bnad 160 to 170hp, more then u need on the street to have fun

 

Okay the SC'd or NA built SOHC is pulling ahead...since everything is already there...plus some extras...also I don't drag or race on the street, this will mostly be daily/autox/roadcourse, don't need to snap any necks... Any shop recommendations for reassembly with the ls rods/piston combo mentioned above? How much did it set you back total?

 

I think you should stay a single cam freak, save some money. and build the b series for another day (or another car). The home is first (if not the wives would make sure our cars remained pretty stock ). Just my 2¢. Call me up if you need help.

 

Ernson!!! Heyhey, glad you showed... yeah prolly keep the SOHC...all the stuff is there...

 

You can build a 1.6 or 1.5 to hell and back... but you will never have the torque or powerband of a motor with more displacement. I'd rather have a stock b20 with bolt-ons than a builtish SOHC... especially for autocrossing and around town.

Nothing wrong with SOHCs at all though, just my opinion.

 

i would say, d-series like you originally planned.

btw, crv is not a light truck vehicle, it's a recreational passenger vehicle.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can build a 1.6 or 1.5 to hell and back... but you will never have the torque or powerband of a motor with more displacement. I'd rather have a stock b20 with bolt-ons than a builtish SOHC... especially for autocrossing and around town.

Nothing wrong with SOHCs at all though, just my opinion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I fully understand the possibilities with the DOHC swap...and I know more displacement is usually better, however the more I add it up, the more I can do to a d with what I have, plus this new money. If I go B20, it will take more cash...and still be bone stock.... I know more people in here who have swapped, so I could prolly take a ride in any of those cars to see the difference...I've only met 1 person who actually has a SC'd Y8. I've also owned a GSR before and a DOHC VTEC sol. And I actually had more fun in the sol, at this point tho I'm not sure if it was the engines or the targa of the del sol.

 

Personally I would avoid that big B20 swap...And just fiddle with the SOHC.

 

Very nice debate so far, but I would have to agree with Bryan and say go with the B20. Reason being that if you go with the SC'd single cam, you're pretty much done. If you aren't happy with it, well tough noogies there ain't much you could do other than ditch the SC and start over. With the B20, however, you could go many different ways. Looking at the long run, I would say go B20 because of the potential it has. Want boost? Cool! Toss in a snail, or hell, SC the B20! Want to go NA VTEC? Ok, slap on a head, tranny, some internal work and bam! Want to go NA non-vtec? Not a problem either. Toss in a B16 tranny with LS 5th for freeway and you have an excellent Auto-X setup!! Thats just my .02 with a look at the future rather than short term.

 

I totally agree, especially if its your daily driver

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evolved247 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I totally agree, especially if its your daily driver</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wait, who do you agree with? SOHC or DOHC?

This really is important to me seeing as this is a lot of cash and I know I won't have cash like this for a loooooooong time. So I have to make sure I do this right without setting myself too far in the hole.

If I do a b20 swap, I know the longblock is $750, tranny $800, $400 install... how much more will I need beyond the $2000 I have to complete the swap?

And if I do the swap, would anyone be interested in buying everything in my D trade link below, plus a bare JDM B16 block & clean crank for $700 obo? That will make a big difference...then I know I'd be able to get closer to finishing the swap.

 

Wait, who do you agree with? SOHC or DOHC?

i think he agrees with Ekology in the previous post.

This really is important to me seeing as this is a lot of cash and I know I won't have cash like this for a loooooooong time. So I have to make sure I do this right without setting myself too far in the hole.

If I do a b20 swap, I know the longblock is $750, tranny $800, $400 install... how much more will I need beyond the $2000 I have to complete the swap?

we'ved discuss this and you know you'll be able to save some serious cash if you do the labor yourself...and yes taking it to a shop guarantees the work...but we all have seen how helpful people can be here in h-t. and you have many supporters here on the board. maybe another tech day and this time a full weekend of work.

And if I do the swap, would anyone be interested in buying everything in my D trade link below, plus a bare JDM B16 block & clean crank for $700 obo? That will make a big difference...then I know I'd be able to get closer to finishing the swap.

selling all the other crap you have will take some time...h-t now isnt the h-t last year. im sure you want to give someone the deal of a lifetime dseries and bseries. only time will tell.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we all have seen how helpful people can be here in h-t. and you have many supporters here on the board. maybe another tech day and this time a full weekend of work. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So does this mean you'll actually be here to turn wrenches this time? LOL

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RSZero1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So does this mean you'll actually be here to turn wrenches this time? LOL</TD></TR></TABLE>

was, i the only one that didnt turn wrenches that last techday you had? you're getting old you bastard .

 

Yes, very helpful are you... lol

Okay new update, BAR ref has called me back and says the B20 swap hinges on CRV classification, but he thinks it IS a passenger vehicle. He will confirm and call me back monday. So I will keep all you guys updated muhuhahah