Hi everyone,

After attending the EXPO at Buttonwillow, I think it was a great experience and something that we should continue on an annual basis. My thoughts are that we should try to do the next one in the central region either at:

Gingerman raceway in South Haven, MI http://www.gingermanraceway.com

or

Heartland Park in Topeka, Kansas http://www.kcrscca.org/clubrace/hpt.htm

Gingerman is by far a safer course as it has less walls (only one on the front stait). On the other hand, Heartland Park also has a drag strip, so those ITR's that are more into the drag racing can also attend. Something like:
Friday - Drag racing
Saturday & Sunday - Road racing.

I would be more than willing to start researching this further assuming there is interest. Lets be practical with our thoughts and see if we can't continue this gathering of ITR's and their awesome owners.

 

fuq drag racing.

D

 

I'm interested, and I would prefer Gingerman... Both because of the shorter drive from Boston, and it's just such a great track to push the limits on without worrying about walls.

Jim

 

I am in for Gingerman

 

I am in to help plan.

 

just a suggestion, and it has nothing to do with the fact that i live in pittsburgh (will be moving in a month anyway)... but they're in the process of building Beaver-Run Motorsports complex... http://www.beaverun.com/, nice elevation changes, and it will be pretty brandy new. Worth a look.

D

 

The next EXPO should be in the middle of the Nation. Those two tracks would be good. If we were to have an EXPO on the East side of the country, I'd say VIR would be great because you can run the south course, north course, full course over a 3 day weekend. But, holding the next EXPO in the Middle would be key for most people. .02$

 

I Like the idea someone mentioned about having 2 expos one in one part of the year another later in the year.
I also like the idea of Having something to do with the HONDA/ACURA Assembly plant in Ohio
If we can get VIR for 2002 so be it if not gingerman sounds ok.

D I like the track maps of that course (BeaverRun)

 

I would suggest not planning to have an event at any track until it's completed, for a couple of reasons: (1) the track might not be done in time for the event; (2) you won't know how safe the track will be, or how much fun it will be, etc, until it's done and people drive it.

 

yeah, bad idea to schedule events at an unbuilt track. the local nasa chapter had 2 events scheduled at a new track (rausch) which still isn't built so both events are likely to be cancelled.

 

Here is a suggestion on how we should start to plan:
1. We should organize a group of people who will plan. (break it up into regions. Cali/West, RockyMtn, Midwest, Soutwest, Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast) I can help in the Northeast
2. Decide on a region to host event (I think Midwest/Chicago area or wherever Gingerman is located seems to be the consensus or at least logical)
3. Decide on what to do for the expo (track, banquet, etc.)
4. Start talking to venues (track, banquet halls, etc.)
etc. etc.

 

I vote for heartland park

 

Based on safety factors and nsxtcjr background, I think the best place to have it is Gingerman. If nsxtcjr is still willing to be the lead man, I think we should foregor the discussion on which track, and start worrying about dates. Given the info from the various threads, this event at Gingerman is VERY, VERY doable, and basically it is almost happening on its own with all of nsxtcjr connections with CGI. For heavens sake, we get to pick our dates.

So, my thoughts are that the track HAS been decided upon, now we need to move on to the next steps! Just because it is going through CGI doesn't mean we will be limited to 24 cars, or just 1 day.

Again nsxtcjr , if you don't mind, lets proceed. I am behind you 100% and will give you ANY backing you need.

 

I second White Dragon. Let's get moving. I can talk with about 30 ITR owners over here in the NYC/NJ/Conn area (numbers decreasing daily due to theft !!). We have a meeting soon and I will bring this up.

 

Let's discuss for the moment how the event would be run, since Anil brought it up. (And no, I do not propose that it be run exactly how CGI runs its other events - and yes, they'll modify the format for us.) Incidentally, most of what follows below is true for all track events, so pay attention - particularly those who might be planning track events elsewhere.

The capacity of a track event is determined by two factors, both of which affect the quality of a track event:

a) the number of drivers in each run group

b) the number of run groups

Multiply (a) by (b) and that's how many people can participate.

The more cars in each run group, the higher the capacity - but the more cars, the more traffic that is on the track at any given time, increasing the possibility of cars "bunching up" often, waiting for an opportunity to pass. As a practical matter, the maximum number of cars you want to have on the track any time is no more than nine for each mile in length of the track. So at GingerMan (1.8 miles long) it's 16 cars in a run group.

The more run groups, the higher the capacity - but the more run groups, the smaller the amount of track time that each run group has. Divide the amount of track time during the day (normally eight hours) by the number of run groups, and that's the amount of track time each driver gets.

Multiply the two numbers, and that's how many drivers you can handle. The more drivers, the lower the cost for each registration. So there's a balancing act here - ideally we want to have a low cost (which means more cars) and we want to be able to accept as many people as want to come (which means more cars) while at the same time limiting the amount of traffic on the track (which means fewer cars) and giving everyone as much track time as possible (which means fewer cars).

CGI usually runs one-day events with 20 cars, 10 in each of two run groups, with no separate run group for instructors. However, they are willing to deviate from this format however we would like. And I'm sure we would all like to have as many cars as possible (so everyone can come and we can keep the cost down) while still having a quality event.

My suggestion for a GingerMan event is that we plan on having 14 to 16 cars per student run group, plus a separate run group for the instructors. The number of student run groups will be determined by how many people sign up, but should be no more than four. That way, we will be able to handle up to 64 participants, and each driver will get at least an hour and a half of actual track time each day. (If we only get 48 sign-ups, then we'll have three student run groups, and each driver will get even more track time than that.)

People will have to sign up in advance. In order to prevent the event from losing money, we're going to have to do two things: (1) if the event isn't full by a couple of weeks before the event, we're going to need to open it up to other makes of cars (but since everyone's going to want to come, this probably won't happen); and (2) we won't be able to issue refunds for last-minute cancellations unless someone can take your place (we'll have a waiting list for this purpose if the event is full). This way, we can be sure that the event collects money for all the places that are being held, and we can minimize the sign-up fee. I expect that it will be similar to the first Expo in cost, including some kind of dinner on Saturday night.

I recommend adding Memorial Day to the list.

Couple of problems with that: (1) Many folks have family vacations and other plans for the holiday weekend. (2) I can't make it (am instructing at another event).

 

is this event going to be particular to R's? I noticed in the many pics from this years expo that there were some hybrids and others there as well as teh R's?

I think it owuld be nice to keep it open to everyone. Just a thought.

 

What about seeing how many R's sign up first...and leave the 'other' category open based on availibility...Kinda like the waiting list that was mentioned earlier.

 

Good thinking David !!
I will be there Both the Mini R Expo at Lime Rock ( Sept ) and future R Expo

 

I think ITR's should receive preference during the registration process. If the event isn't full by a couple of weeks ahead of time, then at that point any applications from other, non ITR cars can be accepted. That is what happened with the first ITR Expo, too.

 

Here is a suggestion. Let all the ITRCA chapter Presidents figure it out. That's their job. Otherwise all of us could hold a "ITR Meet" anywhere anytime. Each ITRCA chapter should encourage all of it's members to attend the event. If this is an ITRCA offical event (which I have yet to see any official membership anything) then it must be organize through the ITRCA.

Having people sign up before to get a number is a bad idea. Look at the last list. They expected 150 cars and had 33 cars in reality. For me July 21-22 Buttonwillow was not going to happen.

Scheduling an event an a vapor track it a bad idea if people have to planing long trips. Local stuff doesn't matter.

Heres the best plan I can think of we need to unite ITRCA, and become a fully functioning body, like BMWCCA, PCA, A4, etc... They have lots of pull with track and santioning bodies alike. They a have huge turn outs too!

Then after they choose N. Cal let me know and I will arrange the whole thing.


[Modified by itr1275, 10:14 AM 7/27/2001]

 

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If this is an ITRCA offical event (which I have yet to see any official membership anything) then it must be organize through the ITRCA.[/QUOTE]

If they're willing to figure out who is going to contact the tracks and make all the arrangements, fine. Are they? I don't know who they are or if they've been involved in these discussions.

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that people shouldn't sign up in advance? Or that you won't know how many people you are going to get until you start accepting paid registrations? Or something entirely different? Please clarify.

What do you mean, "vapor track"? A track event that might not take place?

What I am saying about GingerMan is this: If CGI runs the event, it WILL take place.

Yes, and they (for example, BMW CCA) also charge $35 a year for membership dues, and they have 50,000 members and an annual budget of over a million dollars a year. The NSX Club of America is much smaller, and started with about 300 members and now has 950 members, each of whom pays $40 a year.

If anyone (Brett?) is interested in creating a legal entity for the ITR Club of America, by all means feel free. I'll be glad to assist with advice based on the formation of the NSX Club. You'll probably want to develop a business plan. Keep in mind that this means you'll need to file government documents to form a non-profit organization as a corporation. Plan on spending a few hundred dollars for filing fees, plus maybe a grand each year for an insurance policy, and figure out how much you'll need to pay for expenses to cover whatever you determine you want to provide as member benefits - newsletter mailings or whatever. And you'll need to have enough members join, with high enough membership dues, to pay for everything you want to do. Oh, and in order to maintain tax-exempt status for the organization (you'll want this), you'll need to restrict participation in club events to members only. Which means if you want to go to the ITR Expo, you MUST be a member who has paid membership dues.

As noted above, I'll be happy to advise (and I've exchanged e-mails with Brett about this in the past). But there are a lot of things to take into consideration in deciding whether to proceed in this fashion. In particular, keep in mind that there are a lot of people on this board who would probably not be willing to pay $35-40 a year for membership dues, and who would prefer that things stay the way they are. It can all be done, though - if that's what everyone decides should be done.

 

Just thought I would chime in about ITRCA as a "club"... I dont see ITRCA becoming a full-fledged club like the NSXCA, unless someone else wants to take the reigns and set it up. I just dont have the time. I work full time, and also own my own company. Forming another legal entity just isnt in the cards for me. If someone else wants to do this, please let me know....or post here. I can still do website updates and the like, but thats about all I will be able to handle.

When I started ITRCA.COM, I didnt realize the Type R would see a 4 year production run, and I didnt think owners would be so active on the internet. I mainly started it to help organize things via the internet, and to start a Type R Registry. If owners want it to be more than that, STEP UP NOW. Maybe its time for me to step aside and let someone get an "offical" club going. And again, I would assists with website work, etc.

Thoughts?!?!?

 

Started a new topic on this. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?&i...=404270#404270

 

Thanks, Brett.

Just to add one more thought: There's a lot to consider in forming a club. And the real question becomes, "Why?" IOW, "What can't you do now, as a loose, Internet-based group?" My O is that you can probably do pretty much most of what people want to do, without bothering to become a formal organization.

That could change if, for example, people found that tracks aren't willing to rent to individuals who have never held track events before, but that's why I suggested going through CGI for an event at GingerMan. And we can probably find similar assistance elsewhere.

If you want to become a formal organization, you can - but it takes work (as Brett noted) and money (as I noted). And I'm not sure exactly what you're going to get for all that work and money.

 

I agree with nsxtcjr. In the NYC area, we are planning a track event. It is sort of like a mini-expo. But, "we" are not doing it. We are going to go to a local organization and see if during one of their track days they can have a Honda/Acura run group during the normal track day.

We really do not need to become a full legal club. I like to plan events, but I have a full schedule. I work full time, autocross, church, bicycle racing, dating/socializing/family, etc. Running a "real" club takes work. What we do in NYC is someone sends out an email, "Lets get together" then we plan it and it is done. Informal and lots of fun. We have anywhere from 3 cars to 15 cars at events. No hassles.

Can we stay focused on planning EXPO #2 and then maybe as a side note plan a "real club". The only issue with this way is that people need to be honest and responsible since a person may need to put up money as opposed to a club.