so, i have a fully built b18c1. 9.8:1 compression and a built head. Im running the JRSC @ 9psi currently.

So my car used to have the JR FMU, and JR map contoler as the only thing running with the supercharger, so i decided to step it up and buy hondata and get it fully tuned. I got s200 with boost and RC440's.

I install everything and the car runs really reallly slow. I figured that the base map my tuner gave me was just pulling to much timing out up top to be safe untill i could get it on the dyno. So today we put it on the dyno, and go to tune it. 140 whp and 139tq on a mustang dyno. !1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he said it starts to rev hard and vtec kicks in then it just falls off right on its face. I did a compression check last week and everything was fine, 210, 210, 220, 212.

So to me it feels like the timeing is just getting pulled back really far, but my tuner told me that same map put down 225 whp on a hatch with the same motor. My car was really fast before the hondata, and sence it has been really really slow.

So, i just left my car at the tuners shop, untill i can try to figure out what else to do about it. I guess just take the hondata and 440's out and put it back to how it was and see if it gets better.

any suggestions?

 

hey give us more info:

What cams do you have ?
what are you cam gears set at ?
do you have a print screen of your timing maps ?
are you sure it was 9psi do you have the datalogs of your dyno runs ?
what exhaust do you have ?
Are you sure VTEC is engaging ?

 

sell me your hondata

 

With him being a tuner, shouldn't he be the one fixing the problem where it falls off after vtec engauges?

find a new tuner.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by salt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey give us more info:

What cams do you have ?
what are you cam gears set at ?
do you have a print screen of your timing maps ?
are you sure it was 9psi do you have the datalogs of your dyno runs ?
what exhaust do you have ?
Are you sure VTEC is engaging ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And to add to that, do you have copies of the dyno runs with a/f plots?

 

i have stock GSR cams,
my cams are set at stock,
my timing is set at stock,
he said that it was boosting 9psi he whole time, which i know it has been
i have the 5-zigan fireball exhaust,
and from what i could tell, vtec engages, you can hear it.
the only thing i question is that i have the MSD ignition system, including SCI, and Blaster, and distributor.

when you get to like 7000rpms, it just feels like the car hits a wall, and stops....

 

i dont have the dyno plots, as i didnt go up there to get my car. he said he was taking 15% fuel out up top, and its like 11:1 a/f ratio at high rpms.

 

Can't say much without seeing the results. Sounds to me like a tuning problem

 

Sounds like way too much valve overlap. If you have too much overlap then, it will force the air into the combustion chamber and right back out the exhaust valves. Overlap usually occurs when VTEC engages, I believe. Do you have adjustable cam gears?

 

find a competant (sp) tuner that knows about hondata and hondas...

 

Pretty much sounds like your tuner can't tune....Try to find a better tuner before you give up on Hondata.

 

Your Tuner = Teh Sucko

Suprdave

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siis2fast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but my tuner told me that same map put down 225 whp on a hatch with the same motor</TD></TR></TABLE>

Every motor is different, even with the SAME parts.

Find a "real" tuner.

 

a/f ratio would be nice?

 

payn tech was tuning my car so..... he basicalyy was the guy with all the maps before everyone else. he is actually the one of the only people i do trust wiht my car.

 

11:1 AF, then it feels like the power hits a wall at 7000?

What you think, 94goldjungsr... sound like your buddy's bogging problem at 4500+ rpms with wack fuel maps? (psst... this is Joseph Davis posting under Todd's account, at his house)

I don't want to hop on the "find a real tuner" bandwagon, seeing as how there could be some underlying mechanical problem, but... that is the most likely problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Overblown-Teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">11:1 AF, then it feels like the power hits a wall at 7000?

What you think, 94goldjungsr... sound like your buddy's bogging problem at 4500+ rpms with wack fuel maps? (psst... this is Joseph Davis posting under Todd's account, at his house)

I don't want to hop on the "find a real tuner" bandwagon, seeing as how there could be some underlying mechanical problem, but... that is the most likely problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly... I hope that you did not quote your tuner verbatim when you said that he claimed that map should make 225whp because it did on another similar setup...

 

yeah, it used to feel like the car hit the wall at 6000rpms and the baseline dyno was only 120whp....then they kept leaning it out and got it to pull a little bit better till 7000rpms but only gained 20 hp.

tomorrow im just gonna get it, and pull all the hondata **** off and put the jr map contolroer and FMU and stock injectors back on and see what happens.

im hoping that it was a problem with the MSD ignition pulling out too much timing, so instead of pulling out 10 degrees at full boost, its pulling out 20. who knows,

 

screw taking the hondata out... get rid of that pathetic blower + msd and get a turbo like you want.

if u need help pulling **** out tomorrow call me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siis2fast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im hoping that it was a problem with the MSD ignition pulling out too much timing, so instead of pulling out 10 degrees at full boost, its pulling out 20. who knows, </TD></TR></TABLE>
Um, are you saying that you had the MSD pulling timing under boost in addition to running hondata???

 

no, im saying i hope thats what it is. obviously if i had both hondata and the msd pulling timeing that would b the cause of the problem.

 

They are base maps you can't go by base maps. Base maps are used to start up the car and drive slowly to the tuner. You can't base anything on base maps or from now on, it will be known as start up maps. I'm pretty sure you must have misheard or something because Tom Payn is a pretty with tuning.

Edit - Remember you on a mustang dyno so it will register lower than compared to a dynojet. (about 15% lower).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have the MSD ignition system, including SCI, and Blaster, and distributor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not sure if this is a factor or not, but doesn't Hondata work better with stock ignition components. Personally, I would not use all that stuff, sometimes it can do more harm than good. All those upgraded ignition components seem like they would be working against Hondata. At least, that's what I have seen in the past. I could be wrong though. Maybe someone else will confirm this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekb18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Edit - Remember you on a mustang dyno so it will register lower than compared to a dynojet. (about 15% lower).</TD></TR></TABLE>

i put down about 150whp on a jdm b18c with just bolton's, and made over 180whp with a 55shot running REAL rich.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxim &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not sure if this is a factor or not, but doesn't Hondata work better with stock ignition components. Personally, I would not use all that stuff, sometimes it can do more harm than good. All those upgraded ignition components seem like they would be working against Hondata. At least, that's what I have seen in the past. I could be wrong though. Maybe someone else will confirm this.</TD></TR></TABLE>


That's what I was thinking... just use the KeepItSimpleStupid idea. That's the glory of having a fully tunable system like Hondata. Good luck working things out, though.