What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc
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What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc
I have some 14x6" wheels now that are 15lbs. So I'm planning on getting new wheels that I'll put some Azenis on for racing. The price difference in the 14 and 15" azenis is pretty big so I was wondering if 15" wheels and tires are worth it?
I was thinking of looking for some HX wheels to put the 195/60 azenis on. Are these wheels wide enough?
Any recommendations are welcome
I was thinking of looking for some HX wheels to put the 195/60 azenis on. Are these wheels wide enough?
Any recommendations are welcome
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (model x)
After doing more research I've decided to keep my 14x6 and put the 195/60 Azenis on them and then eventually put toyo ra-1 225/50 on them once I get money and then get a wider lighter 14" wheel. The widest RA-1 for a 15" wheel is still 225 so there isn't that much of an advantage to getting the 15 other than you can find wider 15" wheels easier than wider 14"s.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (model x)
If you're planning on running in G-stock with th 90 crx si, you dont have a choice. You have to run 14's. And you need to find wheels with the same width and a similar offset as stock.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (model x)
There are several issues here. First off if you're in CSP you should be on r-compound tires. Secondly r-compounds only come in useful wide sizes in 13" or 15" sizes, 14" are usually only narrow . Thirdly you have to consider your gear ratio. If you go with 13"s then you will accelerate faster but if your stock gears are too short then you will have to shift all the time. 15" will be just the opposite.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Geratol)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geratol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are several issues here. First off if you're in CSP you should be on r-compound tires. Secondly r-compounds only come in useful wide sizes in 13" or 15" sizes, 14" are usually only narrow . Thirdly you have to consider your gear ratio. If you go with 13"s then you will accelerate faster but if your stock gears are too short then you will have to shift all the time. 15" will be just the opposite. </TD></TR></TABLE>
the overall diameter of the rim+ tire determines gear ratio, not the rim itself.
Without considering weight and weight distribution,smaller diamter of rim + tire only makes linear accleration slower.
the overall diameter of the rim+ tire determines gear ratio, not the rim itself.
Without considering weight and weight distribution,smaller diamter of rim + tire only makes linear accleration slower.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (model x)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by model x »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have some 14x6" wheels now that are 15lbs. So I'm planning on getting new wheels that I'll put some Azenis on for racing. The price difference in the 14 and 15" azenis is pretty big so I was wondering if 15" wheels and tires are worth it?
I was thinking of looking for some HX wheels to put the 195/60 azenis on. Are these wheels wide enough?
Any recommendations are welcome</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would go with 15's. The tires on 15' will most liekly have thinner sidewalls than tires for 14'. When it comes to cornering, we don't want the sidewalls to flex.
I was thinking of looking for some HX wheels to put the 195/60 azenis on. Are these wheels wide enough?
Any recommendations are welcome</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would go with 15's. The tires on 15' will most liekly have thinner sidewalls than tires for 14'. When it comes to cornering, we don't want the sidewalls to flex.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Mr.Integra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Integra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Without considering weight and weight distribution,smaller diamter of rim + tire only makes linear accleration slower. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to elaborate on this a little? I'm really curious...
Without considering weight and weight distribution,smaller diamter of rim + tire only makes linear accleration slower. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to elaborate on this a little? I'm really curious...
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Mr.Integra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Integra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the overall diameter of the rim+ tire determines gear ratio, not the rim itself.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was implied as tires in the 13" size will almost always have a smaller diameter then 15". I thought it was apparent but I guess not.
the overall diameter of the rim+ tire determines gear ratio, not the rim itself.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was implied as tires in the 13" size will almost always have a smaller diameter then 15". I thought it was apparent but I guess not.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Mr.Integra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Integra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would go with 15's. The tires on 15' will most liekly have thinner sidewalls than tires for 14'. When it comes to cornering, we don't want the sidewalls to flex.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm assuming that this is a typo. In any case, sidewall stiffness has more to do with the chord tension than the thickness of the rubber.
Look at what's competitive in CSP: not 15s. Isn't the wheel of choice for CSP/DSP the 13x8" or a 13x9"? Small diameter and wide as the rules (and your fenders) allow.
Modified by GSpeedR at 5:53 PM 6/30/2003
I'm assuming that this is a typo. In any case, sidewall stiffness has more to do with the chord tension than the thickness of the rubber.
Look at what's competitive in CSP: not 15s. Isn't the wheel of choice for CSP/DSP the 13x8" or a 13x9"? Small diameter and wide as the rules (and your fenders) allow.
Modified by GSpeedR at 5:53 PM 6/30/2003
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (jsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Care to elaborate on this a little? I'm really curious...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the driveshaft spins 10 times, would you go further with a wheel that's 10 or 20 inch in diameter?
obviuosly 20" because it's got a larger circumference. So each rotation by the driveshaft would cover a larger distance.
Care to elaborate on this a little? I'm really curious...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the driveshaft spins 10 times, would you go further with a wheel that's 10 or 20 inch in diameter?
obviuosly 20" because it's got a larger circumference. So each rotation by the driveshaft would cover a larger distance.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Mr.Integra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Integra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If the driveshaft spins 10 times, would you go further with a wheel that's 10 or 20 inch in diameter?
obviuosly 20" because it's got a larger circumference. So each rotation by the driveshaft would cover a larger distance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Obviously, but how would that make acceleration faster vs a 10 inch rim? Cuz you said:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...smaller diamter of rim + tire only makes linear accleration slower.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A smaller diameter tire will cover less distance with each rotation but that has no bearing on acceleration. A smaller diameter tire will accelerate faster because.
1. The reduced diameter increases effective final drive ratio / torque multiplication on the ground much the same way a shorter final drive would
2. Reduced unsprung weight (also beneficial to handling)
3. Reduced rotational inertia since more of the weight is concentrated closer to centerline
There's also the added benefit that at most given speeds, the engine will see higher RPM, putting you closer to the torque/hp peak. But that could sometimes work against you as it is possible (and likely) to run out of RPM and force you to upshift too soon on some courses...
If the driveshaft spins 10 times, would you go further with a wheel that's 10 or 20 inch in diameter?
obviuosly 20" because it's got a larger circumference. So each rotation by the driveshaft would cover a larger distance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Obviously, but how would that make acceleration faster vs a 10 inch rim? Cuz you said:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...smaller diamter of rim + tire only makes linear accleration slower.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A smaller diameter tire will cover less distance with each rotation but that has no bearing on acceleration. A smaller diameter tire will accelerate faster because.
1. The reduced diameter increases effective final drive ratio / torque multiplication on the ground much the same way a shorter final drive would
2. Reduced unsprung weight (also beneficial to handling)
3. Reduced rotational inertia since more of the weight is concentrated closer to centerline
There's also the added benefit that at most given speeds, the engine will see higher RPM, putting you closer to the torque/hp peak. But that could sometimes work against you as it is possible (and likely) to run out of RPM and force you to upshift too soon on some courses...
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (jsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Obviously, but how would that make acceleration faster vs a 10 inch rim? Cuz you said:
A smaller diameter tire will cover less distance with each rotation but that has no bearing on acceleration. A smaller diameter tire will accelerate faster because.
1. The reduced diameter increases effective final drive ratio / torque multiplication on the ground much the same way a shorter final drive would
2. Reduced unsprung weight (also beneficial to handling)
3. Reduced rotational inertia since more of the weight is concentrated closer to centerline
There's also the added benefit that at most given speeds, the engine will see higher RPM, putting you closer to the torque/hp peak. But that could sometimes work against you as it is possible (and likely) to run out of RPM and force you to upshift too soon on some courses...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Without looking at weight and weight distribution, the driveshaft spins the same amount regardless of which size tire/rim u use. Just think of a single geared bicycle with a 1:1 gear ratio.. Would you want a rim that is 20" in diameter or 10" in diameter? Obviuosly 20 because each time the gears rotate once, the tires would rotate once and 20" will cover more distance in time than 10's.
Obviously, but how would that make acceleration faster vs a 10 inch rim? Cuz you said:
A smaller diameter tire will cover less distance with each rotation but that has no bearing on acceleration. A smaller diameter tire will accelerate faster because.
1. The reduced diameter increases effective final drive ratio / torque multiplication on the ground much the same way a shorter final drive would
2. Reduced unsprung weight (also beneficial to handling)
3. Reduced rotational inertia since more of the weight is concentrated closer to centerline
There's also the added benefit that at most given speeds, the engine will see higher RPM, putting you closer to the torque/hp peak. But that could sometimes work against you as it is possible (and likely) to run out of RPM and force you to upshift too soon on some courses...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Without looking at weight and weight distribution, the driveshaft spins the same amount regardless of which size tire/rim u use. Just think of a single geared bicycle with a 1:1 gear ratio.. Would you want a rim that is 20" in diameter or 10" in diameter? Obviuosly 20 because each time the gears rotate once, the tires would rotate once and 20" will cover more distance in time than 10's.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (GSpeedR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSpeedR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm assuming that this is a typo. In any case, sidewall stiffness has more to do with the chord tension than the thickness of the rubber.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Assuming chord tension and tire sidewall construction to be similar(which it is in most tires), then your sidewall height becomes the determining factor for how much the tread of your tire will deform under a given cornering load.
The height of the sidewall will be directly proportional to its total deflection based on any given force. So more sidewall = bad.
Alot of higher HP cars go with LARGER wheels + tires in the SP classes since the wheel inertia isn't as big of a deal. Little weedwacker powered Hondas(*ducks!*) need all the help they can get in a straight-line, so the smaller diameter wheel+tire combo is usually the way to go.
I'm assuming that this is a typo. In any case, sidewall stiffness has more to do with the chord tension than the thickness of the rubber.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Assuming chord tension and tire sidewall construction to be similar(which it is in most tires), then your sidewall height becomes the determining factor for how much the tread of your tire will deform under a given cornering load.
The height of the sidewall will be directly proportional to its total deflection based on any given force. So more sidewall = bad.
Alot of higher HP cars go with LARGER wheels + tires in the SP classes since the wheel inertia isn't as big of a deal. Little weedwacker powered Hondas(*ducks!*) need all the help they can get in a straight-line, so the smaller diameter wheel+tire combo is usually the way to go.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Def)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Def »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Assuming chord tension and tire sidewall construction to be similar(which it is in most tires), then your sidewall height becomes the determining factor for how much the tread of your tire will deform under a given cornering load.
The height of the sidewall will be directly proportional to its total deflection based on any given force. So more sidewall = bad.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, but I'm not talking about sidewall height, but thickness: a measurement of the amount of rubber contained in the sidewall. I thought that's what Mr. Integra was talking about as well. A thicker sidewall will not deflect as much as a thinner sidewall, for similar reasons regarding a shorter versus taller sidewall. I never said "height", and neither did Mr. Integra.
We are arguing terms, anyway, so maybe I misunderstood Mr. Integra's post.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Without looking at weight and weight distribution...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you trying to give wheel buying advice, while making this assumption??
Assuming chord tension and tire sidewall construction to be similar(which it is in most tires), then your sidewall height becomes the determining factor for how much the tread of your tire will deform under a given cornering load.
The height of the sidewall will be directly proportional to its total deflection based on any given force. So more sidewall = bad.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, but I'm not talking about sidewall height, but thickness: a measurement of the amount of rubber contained in the sidewall. I thought that's what Mr. Integra was talking about as well. A thicker sidewall will not deflect as much as a thinner sidewall, for similar reasons regarding a shorter versus taller sidewall. I never said "height", and neither did Mr. Integra.
We are arguing terms, anyway, so maybe I misunderstood Mr. Integra's post.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Without looking at weight and weight distribution...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you trying to give wheel buying advice, while making this assumption??
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Def)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Def »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Alot of higher HP cars go with LARGER wheels + tires in the SP classes since the wheel inertia isn't as big of a deal. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll betcha if Hoosier made a 245/40-15, the BMWs in DSP would be running it. Those overgrown, bloated landyachts need the width and pay for it with larger wheels.
Alot of higher HP cars go with LARGER wheels + tires in the SP classes since the wheel inertia isn't as big of a deal. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll betcha if Hoosier made a 245/40-15, the BMWs in DSP would be running it. Those overgrown, bloated landyachts need the width and pay for it with larger wheels.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Mr.Integra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Without looking at weight and weight distribution, the driveshaft spins the same amount regardless of which size tire/rim u use. Just think of a single geared bicycle with a 1:1 gear ratio.. Would you want a rim that is 20" in diameter or 10" in diameter? Obviuosly 20 because each time the gears rotate once, the tires would rotate once and 20" will cover more distance in time than 10's.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes it will. Which is great, if you want higher top speed... Unfortunately, it also takes more TORQUE to accelerate that 20" wheel at the same rate that you accelerate the 10" wheel. Since engine torque is essentially fixed, the best way to increase the effective torque of the engine is to change the gearing. The easiest way to change gearing is thru rolling radius changes, in this case, reducing the rolling radius.
Acceleration is key in autox, not top speed. Without considering shifting, you want the shortest gearing possible.
Yes it will. Which is great, if you want higher top speed... Unfortunately, it also takes more TORQUE to accelerate that 20" wheel at the same rate that you accelerate the 10" wheel. Since engine torque is essentially fixed, the best way to increase the effective torque of the engine is to change the gearing. The easiest way to change gearing is thru rolling radius changes, in this case, reducing the rolling radius.
Acceleration is key in autox, not top speed. Without considering shifting, you want the shortest gearing possible.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (allenp)
As I said above, Toyo RA-1 come in 225/50R14 and 225/50R15. I know the smaller diameter of the 14" is gonna give me better gearing and probably be lighter.
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (maxQ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'll betcha if Hoosier made a 245/40-15, the BMWs in DSP would be running it. Those overgrown, bloated landyachts need the width and pay for it with larger wheels.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, I bet they would not. I am betting the total surface area reduction by running 15" tires would cause them to overheat the tires. In the GRM article on Fauth's car he said that the 245/17's he is running are as wide as he can go with out cutting the fenders. He said that these work fine as long as he is not running two drivers on a hot day. At that point there begins to be overheating problems.
Back the to the question at hand, for a CRX you should look into 13" wheels specifically 13x8 as a minimum width. Since you seem to be an autocross noobie, I would suggest you start with a set of Azenis on your stock 14" wheels to begin. Then when you are getting the most out of them I would move up to the 13" wheels with 205/50/13 Kuhmo victorracers. These will provide good grip and will last a significant amount of tire that you will get your money worth. You can them move up to the Kuhmo Ecsta or Hoosier for the best performance available. I would not suggest you start with these as you will be waisting your money. As a noobie you will be burning them up more then actually using them correctly.
I had run a CSP CRX for 5 years. This is the proper format to follow. If you look at all the national level drivers, they are all running this. It is the best way to go.
Good luck with your project.
Modified by Crosser at 8:31 AM 7/2/2003
I'll betcha if Hoosier made a 245/40-15, the BMWs in DSP would be running it. Those overgrown, bloated landyachts need the width and pay for it with larger wheels.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, I bet they would not. I am betting the total surface area reduction by running 15" tires would cause them to overheat the tires. In the GRM article on Fauth's car he said that the 245/17's he is running are as wide as he can go with out cutting the fenders. He said that these work fine as long as he is not running two drivers on a hot day. At that point there begins to be overheating problems.
Back the to the question at hand, for a CRX you should look into 13" wheels specifically 13x8 as a minimum width. Since you seem to be an autocross noobie, I would suggest you start with a set of Azenis on your stock 14" wheels to begin. Then when you are getting the most out of them I would move up to the 13" wheels with 205/50/13 Kuhmo victorracers. These will provide good grip and will last a significant amount of tire that you will get your money worth. You can them move up to the Kuhmo Ecsta or Hoosier for the best performance available. I would not suggest you start with these as you will be waisting your money. As a noobie you will be burning them up more then actually using them correctly.
I had run a CSP CRX for 5 years. This is the proper format to follow. If you look at all the national level drivers, they are all running this. It is the best way to go.
Good luck with your project.
Modified by Crosser at 8:31 AM 7/2/2003
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Re: What do most prefer 14" or 15" for solo 2 etc (Crosser)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Actually, I bet they would not. I am betting the total surface area reduction by running 15" tires would cause them to overheat the tires. In the GRM article on Fauth's car he said that the 245/17's he is running are as wide as he can go with out cutting the fenders. He said that these work fine as long as he is not running two drivers on a hot day. At that point there begins to be overheating problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How gallons of water have you personally sprayed on overheated Azenis?
Does that not work with R-comps?
Andy
Actually, I bet they would not. I am betting the total surface area reduction by running 15" tires would cause them to overheat the tires. In the GRM article on Fauth's car he said that the 245/17's he is running are as wide as he can go with out cutting the fenders. He said that these work fine as long as he is not running two drivers on a hot day. At that point there begins to be overheating problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How gallons of water have you personally sprayed on overheated Azenis?
Does that not work with R-comps?Andy
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