What do you guys think about the B series vs. K series
i believe that the K series is better b/c newer is better and K is bout as new as the come.
My friends though believe that the B series will always dominate

What are the pros and cons of each series?

 

I will say the K series, because how people have been talking that the K series is going to have a lot better after market potential that was never even imagined compared to the B series.. but thats just my 0.02 cents

 

Who told you that the Bseries will always dominate?
Fully built Bseries and a fully built Kseries is no match at all(power wise).
Kseries is the future.

 

I think it depends on what you do, but I will stick with B series, Lots of stuff out there to make them run. K series shows some killer potential. B series IMO opinion dominates right now, give it some time and I think the K will take over. The K definatly respondes better to mods than the B series IMO. Just from experience. Why no mention of the F20? aka s2k j/k B vs. K? I take the B.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 80884 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it depends on what you do, but I will stick with B series, Lots of stuff out there to make them run. K series shows some killer potential. B series IMO opinion dominates right now, give it some time and I think the K will take over. The K definatly respondes better to mods than the B series IMO. Just from experience. Why no mention of the F20? aka s2k j/k B vs. K? I take the B.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ah...I'm a fan of the Bseries too...absolutley love both the B16 and the B18c5...however the K series is the way of the future...look at the k20a2 programs offered by Hondata...w/ a simple reflash of the ecu and a intake people have been dynoing at high 180s, low to mid 190's....try getting that w/ a Bseries motor..to be able to get that w/ the B18c5 you'll need every bolton you can get your hands onto and some mild cams

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dacaveman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i believe that the K series is better b/c newer is better and K is bout as new as the come.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's perhaps the worst reason I've ever heard as to why the K series is better. Nevermind the increased displacement, the vtc, better flowing head, etc.

 

this thread is pointless. the B is old news and the K is the future. the car has been out for less than 2 years now (it was released on July 4, 2001) and the aftermarket support is still growing. an easy 20+ whp can be gained by tweaking the ecu on the K. i read an article written by honda's japanese designers and they stated that the K technology is a direct descendant from the 2001 F1 Honda engine program. of course there's more support for the B right now, it's been out for over a decade. in two years the support and performance from the K will make the B seem like a child's toy. same will be true when the Q-series replaces the K in 6-8 years. life goes on.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should see how red faced my ITR friends get if I say anything good about the EP3 or the DC5. LOL...

Life does change, but it's hard to accept sometimes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

true, true!!

there's even one road racer (on this forum who I know personally) who swore up and down that the K would never equal the B but now is considering the cost of swapping a K24 for his B18 because of the raw power to be extracted. haha i feel like i've been wasting my breath and now i'm kicking back in my EZ chair with a beer watching all the "old skoolers" finally crossing the tracks. i love my K but I know in time it too will be over the hill. got to keep an open mind.

 

K series will definately dominate if it hasnt already in its short life term so far

 

K series is already dominate. My friends are all like, "the RSX and Si's arent that fast", and that the K Series isnt all its cracked up to be, but they are rolling around and racing these cars with swapped hatchbacks and such. Full weight car to a stripped car...HMMM

The head is VERY key on a kseries and with more time the cams that will be produced will make some very nice gains. I wonder if the block will hold high compression. Is it open or closed?

 

You guys are comparing a 10+ year old engine with a brand new one.

If they were both geared for the same purpose, of course the newer one will become better.

This is stupid.

 

It is stupid. Honda would not build a new motor, and replace nearly all of their 4 cylinders with it, that was worse than the old powerplant.

If you want to crawl out from under the rock you've been stuck under, there's already a wealth of information out there on the new K-series motor. Take the time to read up rather than riding someone elses sack for an opinion.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stunna BEN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">K series is already dominate. My friends are all like, "the RSX and Si's arent that fast", and that the K Series isnt all its cracked up to be, but they are rolling around and racing these cars with swapped hatchbacks and such. Full weight car to a stripped car...HMMM
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Exactly. In my 2002 Si (ep3), I hang with eg hatches with b16s or b18s no prob. Even B's with cams and more. I have only intake/exhaust and a much heavier car, the b series really is not that impressive to me. My friend just spent 6 grand on a 2000 b16a2 w/ aem cams, i/h/c/e and a stage 3 clutch. I still womp him in 1st and 2nd ... he has a pull at the end of third BUT when I shift to fourth its over again... its like im ahead then he is ahead ... etc.. goes back and forth. For a car with i/e vs. i/h/c/e/clutch I'd say the K series shows its dominance quite easily.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dLo GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guys are comparing a 10+ year old engine with a brand new one.

If they were both geared for the same purpose, of course the newer one will become better.

This is stupid.</TD></TR></TABLE>

my sentiments exactly. the more valid comparison would be the k20 v.s. it's current peers - the engine platform it is currently competing with. the neon srt-4 motor, the ford focus SVT motor, the se-r spec v motor, etc.

against all of those motors, from an engineering standpoint, the k20 stacks up quite nicely. The one that comes the closest and is probably even more loaded with technology than the k20 is the celica gt-s motor - but it's lack of displacement and the difficulty of tuning the variable timing on intake & exhaust makes it less appealing than the k20.

as mentioned before, the k20 will not be king of the hill forever. the next generation celica is underway and you can bet they're aming to trump honda.

 

The ultimate potential of either engine is going to be similar simply because they are similar in displacement. A built to within an inch of its life, highly boosted B-series should make pretty close to the same output as a similarly built and boosted K-series. It all comes down to cfm and c.i.d.

However, the K-series is externally smaller and lighter than the B-series, uses friction-reducing roller rockers, has square bore and stroke dimensions (which I believe offers the best compromise between valve area and compression) and is controlled by a much more precise engine mangement system. For the average street motor, the K-series is superior.

As for the Celica GT-S motor, I don't care for the VVTLi's single complex rocker arm setup. For one, that's a lot of weight in the valvetrain. For another, it uses a spring-loaded pad to compensate for the extra lift of the big lobes when they're not in use. So what happens when you want to alter the cam's big lobe profile?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ultimate potential of either engine is going to be similar simply because they are similar in displacement. A built to within an inch of its life, highly boosted B-series should make pretty close to the same output as a similarly built and boosted K-series. It all comes down to cfm and c.i.d.

However, the K-series is externally smaller and lighter than the B-series, uses friction-reducing roller rockers, has square bore and stroke dimensions (which I believe offers the best compromise between valve area and compression) and is controlled by a much more precise engine mangement system. For the average street motor, the K-series is superior.

As for the Celica GT-S motor, I don't care for the VVTLi's single complex rocker arm setup. For one, that's a lot of weight in the valvetrain. For another, it uses a spring-loaded pad to compensate for the extra lift of the big lobes when they're not in use. So what happens when you want to alter the cam's big lobe profile? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, best post (in thread) ever.

 

the future is now. K-series are already on top.
Keep an eye on what the Hytech N/A engine kit will do to the RSX-s. And that's only the first kit coming out. Wait another year or 2 and you'll see more crazy power and all N/A

 

Im with, Taikahn, i have an EP3 (Si) (stock) i have raced many Hybrids (I/.E/h etc..). I take alot of them down, but it can be a drivers race many times also the mods they have. I still think IMO that the B motor rocks, thiers so much you can do to it for so little. But like the B give the K some time and it will rock....How about the K20 Vs. 2JZGTTE Vs. RB20 !!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chunky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

against all of those motors, from an engineering standpoint, the k20 stacks up quite nicely. The one that comes the closest and is probably even more loaded with technology than the k20 is the celica gt-s motor - but it's lack of displacement and the difficulty of tuning the variable timing on intake & exhaust makes it less appealing than the k20.

as mentioned before, the k20 will not be king of the hill forever. the next generation celica is underway and you can bet they're aming to trump honda.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Toyota engine is not even their own technology. It is Yamaha derived. Toyota trumping Honda in a 4cyl, that will be the day. The K has so much untapped potential, here in Japan, before it was released the Honda engineers said they easily, really easily could put the engine to 250 with just a new ECU map, but didn't see the reason for doing so as a daily driven vehicle in a FF platform. The Celica engine is nothing at all even compared to a B series let alone a K. The second iteration of the engine, didn't they need to lower the RPM's for survival stake!?! Toyota can try and try, they will never beat Honda in the 4cyl market, even with the help, oh wait stolen tech from Yamaha. What a sham, I really hate that company with a passion, they've got a shitload of cash and think that they can just buy their way into everything and come out on top. So glad Soichiro decided to stop selling them piston rings way back when and develop his own company, yes HONDA.

Chris

 

i cant say that K motors are wack. i never dove one. people are scared of change.. a k seris motor looks werid to me!!!

Ps why does the 03 si have a 2.0 and only 160 hp?????

 

That would need to be asked to Honda of America. Why they chose the K20A with only 160hp. There are 4 versions of the K20 available, the 160, 200, 215 and 220ps models. The only thing I could think, they didn't want the Honda to compete with the Acura RSX. Pretty shitty, as they are totally different cars, and each attract different buyers. I was in the predicament of choosing between the Civic R or Integra R. I went with the Integra, it was the much better value. It was about $600 more, but it included the Brembos, it weighed in at 40kg (88lbs) lighter, Integra has the lower aluminum front arms.

Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC5RK20A &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Pretty shitty, as they are totally different cars, and each attract different buyers.
Chris</TD></TR></TABLE> how do the attract diffent buyers? other than the si only has a rally 5 speed

 

The Integra (well RSX) there seems to be more upscale between the 2. The RSX has a higher price, though not really here when you get into the Type R models. Some people stateside have a thing called 'I need my **** stroked status symbolism', 'I can't drive around in a Honda, I'll get an Acura.' Sorry to say, it is a Honda regardless. It's funny reading stateside magazines that put down **** like Acura engineering. It is Honda engineering badged to fill that small **** syndrome in the states. If Honda put the K20 with 200ps in the Civic Si, and the price was about the same or a little less, would more people flock to it versus the RSX. That is hard to say, I gave you my reasons for choosing the Integra. I really like both very much, but they are 2 different vehicles. It comes down to personal preferance. Honda of America thinks it will take sales away from the Acura RSX if they delivered the Si with the same powerplant. And if it did, so what, it still all reverts back to ¥ for Honda in the long run. I honestly think Honda of America missed out by delivering it with the 160ps engine. They didn't take away sales in-house, they lost sales to other makes who are delivering more ps for around the same price. On average, most people purchase a car based on its power output and engine size (stateside). The Si is still a really good car, even down on power can hang, especially in driving situations, you know twists and turns, not a straight line situation. I really think they should of at least delivered the car with 185ps, then they actually would of sold more of them, stealing sales away from other makes besides Acura. People that do not like Hondas, really can't say anything bad about them, well except they have tiny 4 cyl engines with no stump pulling power, but damn they last forever and for some reason are still quick. I myself, will never drive any other make of vehicle, that is just me.

So in the end, they attract different buyers based on the needs of the buyer. The RSX with adequate space inside is upstaged by the Civic in that department. The hatch area in the Civic is incredible. Styling wise, some people hate the way the Civic looks, 'it is a tiny mini-van' is what you will here. Let me ask you, which would you prefer if they came with the same powerplant and why? Price being at the most $1000 different. I for one, would probably buy the Civic stateside, as I utterly hate leather interiors and sunroofs, options not deletable on the RSX S.

Chris

 

The only reason that i bought a rsx over a civic si was because it had a 6 speed tranny and it had 40 extra hp and its still a honda to me acura is just a divsion i would rather get honda badges for it cuz all of the windows say honda on them anyway and everywhere else says honda they should just get rid of acura all together and just make it one company like everywhere else

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dacaveman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only reason that i bought a rsx over a civic si was because it had a 6 speed tranny and it had 40 extra hp and its still a honda to me acura is just a divsion i would rather get honda badges for it cuz all of the windows say honda on them anyway and everywhere else says honda they should just get rid of acura all together and just make it one company like everywhere else </TD></TR></TABLE>

So if the Si came with the same engine and tranny, you would of gotten it instead?