Hey guys I'm contemplating getting spec C's, upgrading from my current Spec B's.

Do I really need to shell out $360 for Toda Valvesprings, or can I get away with using my Type-R outers with Portflow Inners?

I already have DPR's titanium retainers, stainless steel valves, Titanium VTEC-X-over pins, 11.8 Compression and a mugen headgasket.

Will I have piston to valve contact?

 

From what I have read on the TODA site and on H-T you have to go with the TODA valve springs due to there aggresive VTEC lobe

 

mmmmmmm...upgrading...jealous

you're problem: are there specs for your ITR/PF springs or can you find out what they can handle? one thing i saw today was "The Skunk2 Racing valve springs can be used with camshafts with lifts not to exceed 0.500 at the valve. Higher lift camshafts (up to 0.540) can be used if valve guides and valve seals are replaced with approved Skunk2 replacements." (not sure if that helps). they were $255 at diablo. ok, wait. they(toda) say you should have already upgraded to their springs for your B's. the C's look similar in lift and duration but maybe what looks to me like nothing is enuf to matter. uh, can't really help, i guess.
< http://www.todaracing.com/B16A.html >

so let me ask you: selling your spec B's? let us all know when you decide. are you running 11.8:1 on pump gas (w/o additives)? are you stock pistons/milled head/mugen 0.47 gasket to get to 11.8?

 

why chance it? spend the $300 or so on springs - or the $3000 on a new motor after a valve drops.

shortcuts lead to trouble!

 

Thought you were selling your car..Change your mind? Put those C's in get the Toda springs they are specifically designed for those cams. You should make some nice power now.

 

He's got the right idea. I've had ITR valve springs fail me before in my ITR motor with ITR cams. Then I went with JUN and never looked back. I say just get the springs. You alreadys spent thousands, what's $300?

 

ok, so going B to C you're increasing your lift (IN&EXH) from 12.0mm to 12.5mm which my calculator tells me is 0.472" to 0.492" ITR is 11.5(0.453")IN and 10.5(0.413")EXH. so maybe skunk2 is one way to go - maybe ask around.
i think you might have other concerns if you're gonna run C's with 9000rpm/stock pist/milled head/ high comp hd gask: (toda "If engine will be operating beyond 8400rpm, TODA valve spring kit must be used. Using Spec C camshafts on engines with milled cylinder heads, thin head gaskets, or non TODA Racing high compression pistons will cause valve-to-piston clearnace issues. For maximum performance, Spec C camshafts must be used with TODA high compression pistons and upgraded fuel injection system." d'oh! another $880 + ? just go for the "TODA RACING VTEC Killer Camshafts" so you won'r have to upgrade again. a steal at $1800

 

mifune:

yeah, my bottom end is stock. When I had DPR do my headwork, I had them mill the head, clove-leaf the combustion chambers so that I could have 11.8 compression. I didnt get pistons cuz I had no money to rebuild my bottom end so i used the cheap way out for higher compression. Yes, I'm using pump gas and 18 degrees timing, w/o any problems.

Dan from Godspeed told me that I need to get the Toda Valvesprings for their spec C's, yeah if I get spec C's I'll have to sell my Spec B's.

 

Fast: Nope I'm keeping it now.

When I said I was gonna sell the car I was saying out of emotions, but I solved my problem....I had a bad MAP sensor and just had to replace it....runs sweet now

 

As far as valve-piston clearances go I may just call DPR and see what they say, but anyhows, If I'm crazy enough to do it then maybe, whats another .5mm of lift gonna do anyhow? It shouldn't hit my pistons as long as I degree it properly ....

anyone can feel free to correct me on that....

 

I am not 100% sure, but I think the R valvesprings would bottom out with the spec Cs.

 

Thats good to know.

 

ur gonna have to get bigger injectors and remapped ECU for those C's but i think u have those already.
also hi compression pistons along with alot of fuel tuning ie. hf fuel pump, FPR,
and be wary of that loopy idle from the C's. it sounds nasty
i would definitely use toda valve springs and cam gears too

 

Vtecman,We talked last week. Dpr is doing my head right now and I have the same cam/spring set up you have. Dan told me that we are close to coil bind on the exhaust now so I would not recomend it. He also said the seat pressure on the exhaust side is alittle low for what he would like to see for reving to 9k.
Heres a quote from dan "spring heights were measured and checked as well as full lift pressures based on the cam specs supplied by Tom. Basically, we
found 58 pounds of exhaust spring pressure and 63 pounds on the intake.
The exhaust has only .020 of an inch safety clearance before coil-bind
and the intake has .060 safety margin. Full lift pressures on the
intake 175 pounds, and exhaust 185 pounds."

Also, toda does not recomend using the c's with a milled head or thinner head gasket. And you have both.




[Modified by Tbone, 7:37 AM 7/26/2001]

 

===============
Heres a quote from dan "spring heights were measured and checked as well as full lift pressures based on the cam specs supplied by Tom. Basically, we
found 58 pounds of exhaust spring pressure and 63 pounds on the intake.
The exhaust has only .020 of an inch safety clearance before coil-bind
and the intake has .060 safety margin. Full lift pressures on the
intake 175 pounds, and exhaust 185 pounds."
=================

All this is Chinese to me, I dont understand, but from what I get from all this I should stick with my Spec B set-up. Maybe I should save my $$$ to upgrade to better gear ratios and an ATS FD gear.
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Also, toda does not recomend using the c's with a milled head or thinner head gasket. And you have both.
--------------
Darn!


By the way how much are you paying for your headwork? How much compression, and what features are you having done? How long is the down-time?

[Modified by Tbone, 7:37 AM 7/26/2001][/QUOTE]


[Modified by VTEC-MAN95GSR, 2:03 PM 7/26/2001]

 

you need the toda valvesprings to runt he spec Cs. I have two sets of spec C cams and valvesprings for sale, email me privately if interested.

GReg

 

Basicly I'm getting a stage 5 . Because of my spoon jdm itr pistons combined with the lift on the b's and my mugen head gasket the tollerances were to close and my exhaust cam was retarded 1deg which made it worse. My exhaust valves were tapping the pistons when closing. On top of that my belt jumped and bent all the valves .So I am also putting in 1/2 mm over size stainless valves,new guides. I also had to pay for faliure anaylsis because he spent like 8 hrs measuring everything possible and a bunch of other stuff I'm not to get into now.(this was before I even decided to fix the head). Anyways I want to raise the cr to 12.0 but I dont want to shave the head because of the tollerances, so we decided to sink the valves into the head alittle and then weld the combustion chambers to gain the cr there. Unfortunately I can not afford to cloverleaf the chambers like you did. But what I'm doing will make for a better quench and burn and will help keep the detonation down while raising cr but giving me more clearance.(valve to piston) Whew, That was a mouthfull . Each case is different so I dont want to talk prices online. I'll im you.