autocross tips
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From: sioux falls, sd
autocross tips
here is a post that one of the guys made on our local solo 2 message board, thought it might be helpful to some people
1. As soon as you pass the start line, you are only losing time.
Minimize how much time you lose. It's not just going faster, it's
spending less time on the course.
2. The trick is to drive 10/10ths. A novice will drive 7/10ths and then
not realize that they went to 13/10ths. Learn the edge and drive it.
That may mean some cones get hit and you spin. It's what teaches you
where 10/10ths is.
3. There are fast parts and there are slow parts. Learn the difference.
4. Don't square off the corners and point and shoot drive. A lot of
corners are parts of smooth arcs you can make. It's faster to drive a
smooth arc than a short straight and two jerky turns.
5. Be aggressive in chicanes. Attack them, stay in front of the turns
and as straight as you can. Getting "behind" in a chicane is a bad
thing.
6. Doing this well means being smooth. Being smooth DOES NOT mean you
are slow. To drive the car smoothly may require controlled chaos in the
car. Fast hand and foot movements do not mean you are not smooth.
7. Know your line you intend on driving. Understand it. Look for it. If
you drive such that you are forcing yourself off that line, you made a
mistake and need to slow down. The line is everything, unless you are
wrong about where the line is...then you need to change your mind.
8. Look ahead to where you want to exit the turn. Adjust your speed into
the corner to make sure your car will be on the right spot when your
exit the corner.
9. It's better to corner under acceleration than braking. Brake earlier
and then get on the throttle as quick as you can.
10. The earlier throttle points will be faster. Give up the end of the
straight to make your corner exit faster. That speed coming out of the
corner will carry thru the whole straight following the corner.
11. Do not try to save runs. If you get screwed up, go off course or mow
down cones. This saves tires.
12. Understeer is often caused by going in to a corner too hot. To
reduce understeer, straighten out the steering and/or reduce throttle
input.
13. A lift or quick stab at the brakes can cause the front of the car to
weight and allow better turn in.
14. Alignments are important.
15. If you start going slower or are less succesful than you should be,
check the car. Sometimes things change and it's hard to notice.
16. Seat time is important.
17. Autocross deliberately. Try to drive deliberately. Not just
reacting...but control the steering and drive the line. Then do it
faster.
18. Don't worry about long lists of tips. Work on one or two things at
a time. Don't try to adjust everything, put in a new swaybar and struts,
try out Hoosiers, and decide to use left foot braking all in one
weekend. Make changes one at a time and see how they feel.
19. There are many ways to setup your car and your driving can
accomodate them. Spend more time on your driving than your car setup.
Human nature is that it's easier to point to your car, or the classing,
or maybe someone else is cheating, or they spent more. But the biggest
variable in autocrossing is still always the driver.
and here is another
For real beginners:
1. If the back end gets loose in a corner DO NOT LIFT.
2. "In a spin, two feet in."
3. Not all of us have a Z06, momentum is everything.
4. If the car is pushing, wind off lock until it hooks up again. Adding lock will only cook your tires.
5. "It's a corolla not a rally car, quit trying to drive it sideways!"
6. Utilizing your brakes to their fullest will save more time than your accelerator ever will.
7. When they say the slolem is optional it doesn't mean you can go around it.
8. If you hit a cone don't let it throw your concentration, remember, you ran it's punk *** over
9. Don't let your hands get crossed up during a run. Practice proper hand technique every day on the street.
1. As soon as you pass the start line, you are only losing time.
Minimize how much time you lose. It's not just going faster, it's
spending less time on the course.
2. The trick is to drive 10/10ths. A novice will drive 7/10ths and then
not realize that they went to 13/10ths. Learn the edge and drive it.
That may mean some cones get hit and you spin. It's what teaches you
where 10/10ths is.
3. There are fast parts and there are slow parts. Learn the difference.
4. Don't square off the corners and point and shoot drive. A lot of
corners are parts of smooth arcs you can make. It's faster to drive a
smooth arc than a short straight and two jerky turns.
5. Be aggressive in chicanes. Attack them, stay in front of the turns
and as straight as you can. Getting "behind" in a chicane is a bad
thing.
6. Doing this well means being smooth. Being smooth DOES NOT mean you
are slow. To drive the car smoothly may require controlled chaos in the
car. Fast hand and foot movements do not mean you are not smooth.
7. Know your line you intend on driving. Understand it. Look for it. If
you drive such that you are forcing yourself off that line, you made a
mistake and need to slow down. The line is everything, unless you are
wrong about where the line is...then you need to change your mind.
8. Look ahead to where you want to exit the turn. Adjust your speed into
the corner to make sure your car will be on the right spot when your
exit the corner.
9. It's better to corner under acceleration than braking. Brake earlier
and then get on the throttle as quick as you can.
10. The earlier throttle points will be faster. Give up the end of the
straight to make your corner exit faster. That speed coming out of the
corner will carry thru the whole straight following the corner.
11. Do not try to save runs. If you get screwed up, go off course or mow
down cones. This saves tires.
12. Understeer is often caused by going in to a corner too hot. To
reduce understeer, straighten out the steering and/or reduce throttle
input.
13. A lift or quick stab at the brakes can cause the front of the car to
weight and allow better turn in.
14. Alignments are important.
15. If you start going slower or are less succesful than you should be,
check the car. Sometimes things change and it's hard to notice.
16. Seat time is important.
17. Autocross deliberately. Try to drive deliberately. Not just
reacting...but control the steering and drive the line. Then do it
faster.
18. Don't worry about long lists of tips. Work on one or two things at
a time. Don't try to adjust everything, put in a new swaybar and struts,
try out Hoosiers, and decide to use left foot braking all in one
weekend. Make changes one at a time and see how they feel.
19. There are many ways to setup your car and your driving can
accomodate them. Spend more time on your driving than your car setup.
Human nature is that it's easier to point to your car, or the classing,
or maybe someone else is cheating, or they spent more. But the biggest
variable in autocrossing is still always the driver.
and here is another
For real beginners:
1. If the back end gets loose in a corner DO NOT LIFT.
2. "In a spin, two feet in."
3. Not all of us have a Z06, momentum is everything.
4. If the car is pushing, wind off lock until it hooks up again. Adding lock will only cook your tires.
5. "It's a corolla not a rally car, quit trying to drive it sideways!"
6. Utilizing your brakes to their fullest will save more time than your accelerator ever will.
7. When they say the slolem is optional it doesn't mean you can go around it.
8. If you hit a cone don't let it throw your concentration, remember, you ran it's punk *** over
9. Don't let your hands get crossed up during a run. Practice proper hand technique every day on the street.
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From: Eating Ramen, CA
Re: autocross tips (matt j)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by matt j »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5. "It's a corolla not a rally car, quit trying to drive it sideways!"
[/B] </TD></TR></TABLE>
[/B] </TD></TR></TABLE>
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: sioux falls, sd
Re: autocross tips (SWFTSHIFTER)
not a problem guys,
here is a link to right and left hemisphere concentration, its an excerpt from speedcraft (great book). it details your brain and driving.
http://supervroum.free.fr/pilotageetcerveau2.htm
edit spelling ownes my white ***
Modified by matt j at 3:23 PM 6/24/2003
here is a link to right and left hemisphere concentration, its an excerpt from speedcraft (great book). it details your brain and driving.
http://supervroum.free.fr/pilotageetcerveau2.htm
edit spelling ownes my white ***
Modified by matt j at 3:23 PM 6/24/2003
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: up yours
Re: autocross tips (matt j)
I need to make myself understand #6 for beginners and pretty much everything before and after that. Thanks!!! These are great tips!!!
My only gripe about autox is the amount of runs you get in. In my region, there are just so many cars that we only get 3 runs in. Then i have to wait another week to get only another 3 runs in. I really dont feel like I am comfortable in the car, but with more runs during the day I think I can get a little better feel.
Im just bitter. After a week I forget everything that i learned the previous week....
My only gripe about autox is the amount of runs you get in. In my region, there are just so many cars that we only get 3 runs in. Then i have to wait another week to get only another 3 runs in. I really dont feel like I am comfortable in the car, but with more runs during the day I think I can get a little better feel.
Im just bitter. After a week I forget everything that i learned the previous week....
Thread Starter
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From: sioux falls, sd
Re: autocross tips (Art Vandeleigh)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Art Vandeleigh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I need to make myself understand #6 for beginners and pretty much everything before and after that. Thanks!!! These are great tips!!!
My only gripe about autox is the amount of runs you get in. In my region, there are just so many cars that we only get 3 runs in. Then i have to wait another week to get only another 3 runs in. I really dont feel like I am comfortable in the car, but with more runs during the day I think I can get a little better feel.
Im just bitter. After a week I forget everything that i learned the previous week.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
i know exactly what you mean. I only get three runs in then some fun runs (if a subaru doesnt wreck) and then i have to wait like another month before we race again, the last event we had here was may 25th and the next one isnt till august 3rd. I guess i have to make the trip to LA this weekend and run up there for more seat time
My only gripe about autox is the amount of runs you get in. In my region, there are just so many cars that we only get 3 runs in. Then i have to wait another week to get only another 3 runs in. I really dont feel like I am comfortable in the car, but with more runs during the day I think I can get a little better feel.
Im just bitter. After a week I forget everything that i learned the previous week....
</TD></TR></TABLE>i know exactly what you mean. I only get three runs in then some fun runs (if a subaru doesnt wreck) and then i have to wait like another month before we race again, the last event we had here was may 25th and the next one isnt till august 3rd. I guess i have to make the trip to LA this weekend and run up there for more seat time
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 42
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From: San Diego, Ca, USA
Re: autocross tips (matt j)
Yeah down in the SoCal area especialy in San Diego we are limited to spaces available. Although we have some of the largest lots to run on it is at a Stadium and we have to share it with the sports teams and other organizations. So our schedules are very limited especialy the first half of this year. It realy sucks.
The three runs you get is part of the whole auto-x structure. Puts it in the hands of the driver to go out there and lay down their quickest time with in those runs. Some of the smaller regions have more runs like 4 or 5 I have seen some places give six runs. It would be nice to be able to do that but at least down here we have an average of 250+ entrants at our events. The limited runs is especialy trying on nooB's and alot of them get turned off on auto-x due to this. The best way for nooB's is to attend schools and practices when and where available. You will get alot more seat time at those events.
But yeah here in SD we are in a bit of a delima with space availability but luckily the next closes region is only an hour and a half away.
MattJ remember to bring LOTS AND LOTS of water for sunday temps will be around 100!!!! I am going to freeze a bunch of bottles the night before and then pack the cooler for the day.
The three runs you get is part of the whole auto-x structure. Puts it in the hands of the driver to go out there and lay down their quickest time with in those runs. Some of the smaller regions have more runs like 4 or 5 I have seen some places give six runs. It would be nice to be able to do that but at least down here we have an average of 250+ entrants at our events. The limited runs is especialy trying on nooB's and alot of them get turned off on auto-x due to this. The best way for nooB's is to attend schools and practices when and where available. You will get alot more seat time at those events.
But yeah here in SD we are in a bit of a delima with space availability but luckily the next closes region is only an hour and a half away.
MattJ remember to bring LOTS AND LOTS of water for sunday temps will be around 100!!!! I am going to freeze a bunch of bottles the night before and then pack the cooler for the day.
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Hammonton, NJ
Re: autocross tips (matt j)
Yeah, I've heard you guys in CA have huge turn out to your events. On the east coast, I've had anywhere from like you guys say, 3 runs to 11, but the norm. is around 6 though.
I'm not sure if it was mentioned here already, but the best way to learn is to ride with an instructor while he/she drives, preferably, your car. It's like all the knowledge that you read about is layed out before you... as in a picture is worth a thousand words. Plus you get to see the course 1 more time.
I'm not sure if it was mentioned here already, but the best way to learn is to ride with an instructor while he/she drives, preferably, your car. It's like all the knowledge that you read about is layed out before you... as in a picture is worth a thousand words. Plus you get to see the course 1 more time.
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From: San Diego, Ca, USA
Re: (matt j)
Yeah I can do that. I was also thinking of making that the gas station we meet at in the morning before we go. Or we can all meet at Mark W's place. Well see. But either way you can bring it to me and we can meet there or I can fill it on my way to Marks.
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Re: autocross tips (matt j)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by matt j »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...then some fun runs (if a subaru doesnt wreck) and then... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Whoah, have you noticed that too? It seems those get outta control more often than the RWDs do. hmmmm... fancy computer.
...then some fun runs (if a subaru doesnt wreck) and then... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Whoah, have you noticed that too? It seems those get outta control more often than the RWDs do. hmmmm... fancy computer.
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: autocross tips (Art Vandeleigh)
<U>Tips for getting more then three runs or more seat time:</U>
I list these tips based on the format we run in the SF region but I'm sure they can be applied to other clubs.
1. Always do fun runs (duh)
2. Ask the event chair if you can purchase 2 entry cards (be sure to work twice).
3. If you really can't buy more runs, try riding with as many drivers as you can (not as good as driving but better then nothing).
4. Search around for smaller clubs that have ~50 entrants. Due to the smaller size they tend to have more runs.
5. Ever done two autocross clubs in one weekend?
6. Ever done two autocross clubs in one day?
For those of you in the SF Bay Area you can find an autocross almost every weekend, you just have to know where to look. For example, here are all the autocross events I know of:
SFR SCCA
Sacramento SCCA (temporally w/o events)
AAS
NASA
Competition Sports Car Club (I don't know if they're still around)
Empire Sports Car Club
PCA (you need a Porsche or know someone)* I got 16 runs at one of these
BMWCCA (you need a BMW or know someone)
Lockheed Autocross (invite only, once a month)
Duel at De Anza (once a year)
I bet there's even a few more that I don't know about but with this list you should be able to put together a lot of seat time.
I list these tips based on the format we run in the SF region but I'm sure they can be applied to other clubs.
1. Always do fun runs (duh)
2. Ask the event chair if you can purchase 2 entry cards (be sure to work twice).
3. If you really can't buy more runs, try riding with as many drivers as you can (not as good as driving but better then nothing).
4. Search around for smaller clubs that have ~50 entrants. Due to the smaller size they tend to have more runs.
5. Ever done two autocross clubs in one weekend?
6. Ever done two autocross clubs in one day?
For those of you in the SF Bay Area you can find an autocross almost every weekend, you just have to know where to look. For example, here are all the autocross events I know of:
SFR SCCA
Sacramento SCCA (temporally w/o events)
AAS
NASA
Competition Sports Car Club (I don't know if they're still around)
Empire Sports Car Club
PCA (you need a Porsche or know someone)* I got 16 runs at one of these
BMWCCA (you need a BMW or know someone)
Lockheed Autocross (invite only, once a month)
Duel at De Anza (once a year)
I bet there's even a few more that I don't know about but with this list you should be able to put together a lot of seat time.
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From: Southern, CA
Re: autocross tips (matt j)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">11. Do not try to save runs. If you get screwed up, go off course or mow
down cones. This saves tires. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I guess Michael Schumacher never heard this one...when he screwed up the first sector and then took pole from Raikkonen in Austria
down cones. This saves tires. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I guess Michael Schumacher never heard this one...when he screwed up the first sector and then took pole from Raikkonen in Austria
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From: Tejas, USA
Re: autocross tips (manveer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by manveer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I guess Michael Schumacher never heard this one...when he screwed up the first sector and then took pole from Raikkonen in Austria </TD></TR></TABLE>
But MS doesn't pay for his tires!
I guess Michael Schumacher never heard this one...when he screwed up the first sector and then took pole from Raikkonen in Austria
</TD></TR></TABLE>But MS doesn't pay for his tires!
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From: TX
Re: autocross tips (matt j)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by matt j »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. If the back end gets loose in a corner DO NOT LIFT.
4. If the car is pushing, wind off lock until it hooks up again. Adding lock will only cook your tires.
[/B] </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok what is the "lock" from #4 and what dose "do not lift" mean from #1?
1. If the back end gets loose in a corner DO NOT LIFT.
4. If the car is pushing, wind off lock until it hooks up again. Adding lock will only cook your tires.
[/B] </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok what is the "lock" from #4 and what dose "do not lift" mean from #1?
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: autocross tips (greebler)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by greebler »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok what is the "lock" from #4 and what dose "do not lift" mean from #1?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
"lock" is when you have the steering wheel turned all the way to the left or right until it doesn't turn any more.
"do not lift" means don't lift off the throttle. If the back end steps out in a FWD car the proper solution is to add more throttle. The reason the back end stepps out in the first place is usualy because you already lifted (or on the brakes).
Ok what is the "lock" from #4 and what dose "do not lift" mean from #1?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
"lock" is when you have the steering wheel turned all the way to the left or right until it doesn't turn any more.
"do not lift" means don't lift off the throttle. If the back end steps out in a FWD car the proper solution is to add more throttle. The reason the back end stepps out in the first place is usualy because you already lifted (or on the brakes).
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Re: autocross tips (Geratol)
"Lift throttle" is my first and only "driving trick" so far
The theory is when you lift the throttle going into a turn, the car will pitch forward (alot for some), and more weight will go on the front wheels, which is good for the traction in turning a FWD, but it doesnt stay there for good. :-b Also taking the weight off the rear will help induce it to "swang on aroun'"
The theory is when you lift the throttle going into a turn, the car will pitch forward (alot for some), and more weight will go on the front wheels, which is good for the traction in turning a FWD, but it doesnt stay there for good. :-b Also taking the weight off the rear will help induce it to "swang on aroun'"
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Re: autocross tips (hatch2k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">8. If you hit a cone don't let it throw your concentration, remember, you ran it's punk *** over </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm adding that to my sig
I'm adding that to my sig
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Re: autocross tips (CivicSiRacer)
One thing I normally do during autox sessions is for the first run, I take it slow. I try to pretend that I am just drinving down the street. This helps me concentrate on drving the course right, as opposed to driving the car fast.