Hey guys,

What do you guys think about buying a camber kit (front 2 wheels) vs. simply bending the forks? Is it true that most camber kits don't even adjust enough if you car is lowered dramatically, and that the shop would have to bend the forks anyways?

I have a 99 Civic Si, dropped about 2"-2.5", already fixed the back with washers.

Thanks

 

It would be great if you could explain the "bending the forks" part.. I can't picture it.

 

Yeah, me too... and what it would do to the suspension geometry / handling. I say NO to whatever the heck "bending the forks" entails. Get a camber kit that will allow sufficient adjustment. I think Ingals has several kits.

Dan P.

 

one word......JIGRIG......

 

It sounds ghetto, but I don't see anything wrong with it if you found a proper way to do it (not with a hammer). It's sounds like a more solid solution than a camber kit...

 

Done, car is aligned and cambered perfectly! If I ever need to go back to stock, I picked up an extra pair of forks for $20!

Now I can spend all the money I saved on REAL mods!

 

It just seems to me bending fork would make them weeker and prone to bending more.... But do what you need ot do.

 

Actually if you bend metal it tends to make it stronger....it's called cold working.

Anyways, CivicCLMT, how did you end up bending them?

Okocim...mmmmm

 

SO WHAT IS THIS BENDING? WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT IT!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually if you bend metal it tends to make it stronger....it's called cold working.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Edit: just to clarify, bending metal one time simply causes dislocations. Cold working requires many dislocations to form such that they bind preventing more deformation. Bending a fork one time won't acheive this, simply making it weaker.


Modified by GSpeedR at 3:03 PM 6/26/2003


Modified by GSpeedR at 10:38 AM 6/27/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSpeedR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL

Edit: just to clarify, bending metal one time simply causes dislocations. Cold working requires many dislocations to form such that they bend preventing more deformation. Bending a fork one time won't acheive this, simply making it weaker.


Modified by GSpeedR at 12:45 PM 6/26/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Beat me to it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually if you bend metal it tends to make it stronger....it's called cold working.

Anyways, CivicCLMT, how did you end up bending them?

Okocim...mmmmm </TD></TR></TABLE>

I had an alignment place do em

 

How do they get the forks perfectly even? All those performance mods aren't gonna do jack when your suspension is rigged like that.

 

What fork got bent? The one that connects the strut to the LCA? Bending that will do exactly jack ****. The only way you can adjust camber on a double wishbone set up is to relocate the mounting nodes of the SAI(the upper and lower ball joints on the upright) either inward or outward.

 

Fork, suspension arm, knuckle, whatever u want to call it, it's bent.

 

in california theres couple alignment shops that dobending...most its to correct your camber say when you get in an accident...my bro's car and mine have been bent (we're never gonna raise our car back up hahaha) and its been 2 yrs...went back just recently to check it......still the same

 

upper control arm, it has to be what he means. When you buy a camber kit for the front it either replaces the back two pieces (bolts) of the upper control arm, or it just replaces the whole UCA and there is an adjustment piece toward the end where the ball joint is. I dont know about this bending thing though. Sounds shady.

-johnny

 

The big problem with bending the knuckles is that it would be hard to get things even close to being perfect. You would have no choice but to bend a little and then check, over and over again. Also, although the part will be strengthened at first, it will eventually start to crack and weaken as it is bent repeatedly. For these reasons, a camber kit is the better way to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSpeedR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Edit: just to clarify, bending metal one time simply causes dislocations. Cold working requires many dislocations to form such that they bind preventing more deformation. Bending a fork one time won't acheive this, simply making it weaker. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I understood that introducing any dislocations strengthens the part...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I understood that introducing any dislocations strengthens the part...</TD></TR></TABLE>

The slip (or dislocations) occuring on the atomic level creates new crystalline planes, and when these planes begine to intersect then the metal becomes stronger (tougher and harder, I believe). So bending a piece of metal 5 degrees probably isn't going to cause many of these dislocation planes to intersect, like cold-rolling a piece of metal will. As for whether it gets weaker, it depends on application, so I removed the "LOL" because I definitely had to rethink it.

The stretching of steel (tensile with respect to the grain) can indeed make it stronger. However, one side will stretch and the other side will compress, and it's the compression side that you need to consider. There is a trade-off between dislocations and the surface irregularities which lead to stress risers etc.

What I don't want to happen is for every kid on here to read that and start bending all their suspension components. Bend it once and correctly and you increase its strength, bend it twice and it's weaker than before.

 

Bending the forks??!!!!! WTF are you talking about? If its a 99 then its a double wishbone design and 'bending the fork' won't achieve anything except possible f'in up the shock and besides, "bending" ANYTHING isn't the way to achieve a proper setup.

Do it right or don't F' with it.

Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I understood that introducing any dislocations strengthens the part...</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, Its called work hardening and it doesn't really involve 'bending' per-se. Thats just metal fatigue and it's NOT the same as shot peening or cryo hardening.

Study up on metalurgy, There's a lot of good info on the web.

P.S. I suppose you could think of cold working or forging as a (very specific) type of "bending" but like stated above. I have terible visions of hordes of ricers atacking their suspension parts with hammers and vices Not a good thing

Mike

 

Maybe I didn't look deeply enough into it, but cold working, strain hardening, work hardening, whatever term you wish to use is simply stressing a metal beyond its yield point. If you bend it such that it yields...then it's cold working.

It's not fatigue, that's cyclic stressing of metal below its yield point.

Like I said, I didn't look too deeply into it, but I found this graph that shows that yielding metal a little bit can have a huge effect on its strength.
http://www.engr.ku.edu/~rhale/...4.htm

Whatever happens, the point I was making was it's not going to weaken it. The slight bend required is not going to have any catastrophic structural effects. It seems to me that an adjustable camber kit is much more ghetto than a properly (that's the key word) executed bend of suspension pieces. Any time you have something adjustable, it's going to be more flimsy then a solid metal piece. And, I mean, they have machines to straighten entire frames of cars. I'm sure they can properly bend a fork or knuckle or whatever it is they need to.

Sure, if you go in there with a hammer or god knows what you're probably going to mess it up. Lets not discourage a possibly good practice because there's a chance that some jackass is going to screw himself trying to do it the wrong way. I could just as easily tell everyone not to do anything to their cars because there's a possibility that a ricer will fug it up. I could just as well say that they shouldn't have cars in the first place becasue a ricer will take one and race it and crash it into a wall. I don't like that line of thinking....if everyone thought that, then nothing would get done. Screw the ricer, not everyone else.

I fully back up CivicCLMT on his decision.


Modified by Lsos at 10:49 PM 6/29/2003

 

why dont you post pics of this???

 

i would tell you to spend your money in a camber kit, i had this done by a shop that called it a camber kit. when i got home, i told my friend where and what i had done, and he told me that they just bendt my forks. he was right, there was no camber kit installed on my upper a arm. after six months, i once again had negative camber. it sucked, because for the price they charged me i could of bout a real camber kit and a set of new front tires!