I have a 93 civic hatch with a 2001 B18C5 in it with the five lug conversion. I have JDM 4-1 headers, apexi world sport exhaust, hondata stage two, with a weak *** aem short ram intake. I don't know if i should stay all motor or go forced induction? I don't want to turbo it because I don't believe in degrading to upgrade, but I could supercharge it. I kind of wan't to stay all motor with it and get the toda spec "b" or "c" head package but i can't make up my mind?? I was looking at the apexi S-AFC but I want bigger and better things first. let me know your opinion's on what i should do?

 

Bump

 

ON yuor R motor? dumbass. Turbo on R motor = NFG 8 outta 10 times.
go all motor.

NFG = no ******* good

 

do whatever the hell you want...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by navin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do whatever the hell you want...</TD></TR></TABLE>

whos car is it? yours? then do what you want!

I want you to put on a big shopping cart wing... but dont turbo a b18c5.... the are built for NA... but its your car, your money

 

First of all how did you fit more than one header on your ITR motor?



Also, what would you mess with any sort of S-AFC if you already have Hondata?

You're confusing me a bit bro.

First thing I'd do if I were you is get some sort of fuel management (in case you were mistaken about the Hondata stuff) and hit the dyno and see where you stand. See what your currecnt A/F ratios are and go from there.

I thought my ITR swap was running good because it had baselined 175/123 (but with weak-*** low and mid power and torque) and powered my car to a 13.3, but after installing a V-AFC (and not touching any settings) I took it to the dyno the same day and for the first time had a wideband 02 put in for tuning.

My A/F ratios were at dnagerously lean leveels of up to 18:1!!!

After tuning my A/F returned to safe levels and my midrange picked up +20whp and +20ft-lbs. of torque! Totally different driving experince now I must say.

As far as boost goes, you theory of not liking to tear down to upgrade would also apply to all-motor.

Mild cams seem to perform best with the stock 10.6:1 CR bottom end, so if you want good cams look at Toda A cams or Skunk2 Stage 1 cams if you want more user-friendly tunability with nice far mid and peak power with the stock bottom end.

I've not seen a lot of success with big cams on stock USDM ITR bottom ends because most big cams like higher CR, but the best guy possible tpo ask would be b18cxr/Jack from P1 Automotive. This guy is the premier tuner for all-motor Honda goodness. IM him and ask him to look at this topic. This is the guy that tuned individual throttle bodies and Toda (B's or C's I can't recall at the moment) and had it idling like STOCK and got sick numbers from it to.

Boost?

You can boost anything if you have the paitnence, plans, and most of all, MONEY.

I'd look st the JRSC with the new Hondata JRSC chipped ECU...you will never touch those numbers with an all-motor streetable engine unless you want to spend 3 times as much on it, and you'd actually never touch the torque figures.



Notice the major H22A ownage in the low/mid in those graphs to.



How does 260whp with 180ft-lbs. of torque sound?



Tubro could easily ruin those numbers with a B16A, but the key is that lack of lag and the more reliable JRSC experience.

 

The Toda head package sounds nice. Get rid of that short ram. With what you have, you could have a low 12, high 11 second car on slicks. Stay all motor, you don't need to go boost. I'm not telling you what to do, this just my opinion.

 

id go toda style but do what you want

 

jrsc looks like a nice option

 

Tom, those were actually Toda VTEC Killer cams in the car with ITBs that idled sweetly @1000rpm!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WAFFLES &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tom, those were actually Toda VTEC Killer cams in the car with ITBs that idled sweetly @1000rpm!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the clarification. Some people cannot even get VTEC killer to idle, let alone at 1Krpm with ITBs!

 

Not flaming on you or anything..But I think anyone who Turbo or Supercharge an R motor is dumb. R's are good for N/A. But to those with a turbo or SC setup, good job but just ask how much they spent thus far.

If you want some N/A power than try these:
1. Upgrade pulleys
2. Flywheel
3. Get a performance catback
4. V-AFC
5. ITB's (This should be the last thing)

Just some idea's. Good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18cR-EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not flaming on you or anything..But I think anyone who Turbo or Supercharge an R motor is dumb. R's are good for N/A. But to those with a turbo or SC setup, good job but just ask how much they spent thus far. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Now how am I supposed to take you seriously when your first suggestion is this?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1. Upgrade pulleys</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pulleys rarely do ****. If you are really serious then you remove P/S and A/C, thus negating the need for "upgraded pulleys" and only needing a one-rib lighter crank pulley.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2. Flywheel
3. Get a performance catback</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now you sound like the lady on the NOPI hold music.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4. V-AFC
5. ITB's (This should be the last thing)</TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all you forgot to add cams, higher CR pistons, headwork, cam gears, etc.

Secondly do you not realize that ITBs and a V-AFC don't really mix? Anyone serious enough that buys ITBs will buy a real stand-alone ECU - period.

Please don't call others stupid for having an opinion when your suggestions make little sense to begin with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18cR-EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you want some N/A power than try these:
1. Upgrade pulleys
2. Flywheel
3. Get a performance catback
4. V-AFC
5. ITB's (This should be the last thing)

Just some idea's. Good luck.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

ITB's on that setup would be overkill. no cams, no real way of tuning (IE: Something a little more flexible then a pigy back).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18cR-EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not flaming on you or anything..But I think anyone who Turbo or Supercharge an R motor is dumb. R's are good for N/A. But to those with a turbo or SC setup, good job but just ask how much they spent thus far.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nothing wrong with turboing a ITR motor. Speak to some of the guys in the FI forum with stock bottom ends on turbo's and SC. ITR motor's require more fine tuning when it comes to boost but you can get the same power out of it with less boost then say a LS/GSR/SI motor.

ITR owners probably spend just as much as your average Honda owner boosting.

The only time I'd say an ITR motor isn't worth boosting is when you want to tear the motor down completely to go with high *** boost (which is kinda pointless to me anyway).

Do what the hell you want. Figure out you're horsepower goal go from there.

You want 180-210hp to the wheels: Go N/A. You can get that without going crazy with ITB's.
You want 210-240hp to the wheels: Go Supercharger. Easily can attain this number.
You want 240-300hp to the wheels: Go Turbo


And I can not stress this enough get a programmable ECu and take your car to someone who knows what the **** they are doing.

 

My question is how many 2K1 B18C5's can there be in Hybrids, seems like every guy and his brother have 2K1 B18C5, I say stay with the motor and tune, mine keeps me happy all the time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Now you sound like the lady on the NOPI hold music.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

LMAO!

Speaking of Nopi, did everyone at the Forest Park store get laid off? Last time I went in there, I didn't recognize anyone.

 

Scott: Fired
Lee: Quit....came back.....then Fired
Justin: Walked out
Bobby: Promoted to work upstairs in the phone room (Where the real money is made)
Me: Quit (It was only a temp thing anyway)
Juan: Quit. Works for another local car shop that offered him more money
Chris Jr (aka: Chris Ellington's Love child): Quit or something like that. Think he works @ a honda dealership now).


No one else worth mentioning.

Oh yeah Eric: Quit. He's gone back to school.

 

I was just giving examples ... They weren't meant for any specific order. I can't tell him to remove A/C nor P/S cause he never stated if he had them or not. Well, none the less you are still correct. for good info.

I never called any stupid. I said I THINK, and if H-T took it the wrong way then my apologies. I did say good job though.

 

Didn't take anything you said personal.

 

get a new motor = )

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ironcheftony &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get a new motor = )</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was not helpful and you are in for it buddy. Why would he have to get a new motor?

 

get a new motor = )

After only 17 short years of being on this world you come up with a phrase like this. WHOA.................. Ok what motor do you recommend and why? Personally I think TOM should make you do tons of research and submit and essay back to him within 24 hours on which motor is better and why. Or ban your stupid *** for such a smart *** remark.

 

What about Alan?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil_Wizard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get a new motor = )

After only 17 short years of being on this world you come up with a phrase like this. WHOA.................. Ok what motor do you recommend and why? Personally I think TOM should make you do tons of research and submit and essay back to him within 24 hours on which motor is better and why. Or ban your stupid *** for such a smart *** remark. </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol

 

LMAO! I told him that he was in for it. Why, oh why?