Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart...
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Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart...
All I can say is "Wow!"
I have always known his finished product is good stuff, now that I've actually spent a day watching him work, I understand why. The guy is really, really good, and very much a perfectionist.
For example, if he doesn't like something, or if a bar comes out as little as a couple of mm off, he pulls it out and re-does it. And the bars themselves... lets just say that the cage would fit together in the car and stand up without being welded . The fit of everything is just that damned good. I think this is what I was most impressed with.
Oh... and there are no grinds on any of the welds. It isn't needed.
I've always been a big fan of true, custom cages built by someone who knows what they're doing if you intend to race W2W. This year has solidified my position greatly. So far I've seen a professional cage stand up to a VIOLENT multiple roll with no give at all, I've watched a professional build a true cage, I've seen split ERW tubing from an Autopower bolt-in, and I've seen a homemade cage collapse in a minor single rollover.
Yep... I feel pretty damned safe in my car. How about you?
I have always known his finished product is good stuff, now that I've actually spent a day watching him work, I understand why. The guy is really, really good, and very much a perfectionist.
For example, if he doesn't like something, or if a bar comes out as little as a couple of mm off, he pulls it out and re-does it. And the bars themselves... lets just say that the cage would fit together in the car and stand up without being welded . The fit of everything is just that damned good. I think this is what I was most impressed with.
Oh... and there are no grinds on any of the welds. It isn't needed.
I've always been a big fan of true, custom cages built by someone who knows what they're doing if you intend to race W2W. This year has solidified my position greatly. So far I've seen a professional cage stand up to a VIOLENT multiple roll with no give at all, I've watched a professional build a true cage, I've seen split ERW tubing from an Autopower bolt-in, and I've seen a homemade cage collapse in a minor single rollover.
Yep... I feel pretty damned safe in my car. How about you?
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen split ERW tubing from an Autopower bolt-in</TD></TR></TABLE>
Eek. I've never seen that before, thats kind of ugly sounding.
Any of you lurking in here wondering about racing, don't skimp on the cage. I'm increasingly glad I never had to "use" my bolt-in, ERW cage for the years I drove on track with it.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All I can say is "Wow!"
I have always known his finished product is good stuff, now that I've actually spent a day watching him work, I understand why. The guy is really, really good, and very much a perfectionist.
For example, if he doesn't like something, or if a bar comes out as little as a couple of mm off, he pulls it out and re-does it. And the bars themselves... lets just say that the cage would fit together in the car and stand up without being welded . The fit of everything is just that damned good. I think this is what I was most impressed with.
Oh... and there are no grinds on any of the welds. It isn't needed.
I've always been a big fan of true, custom cages built by someone who knows what they're doing if you intend to race W2W. This year has solidified my position greatly. So far I've seen a professional cage stand up to a VIOLENT multiple roll with no give at all, I've watched a professional build a true cage, I've seen split ERW tubing from an Autopower bolt-in, and I've seen a homemade cage collapse in a minor single rollover.
Yep... I feel pretty damned safe in my car. How about you?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Eek. I've never seen that before, thats kind of ugly sounding.
Any of you lurking in here wondering about racing, don't skimp on the cage. I'm increasingly glad I never had to "use" my bolt-in, ERW cage for the years I drove on track with it.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All I can say is "Wow!"
I have always known his finished product is good stuff, now that I've actually spent a day watching him work, I understand why. The guy is really, really good, and very much a perfectionist.
For example, if he doesn't like something, or if a bar comes out as little as a couple of mm off, he pulls it out and re-does it. And the bars themselves... lets just say that the cage would fit together in the car and stand up without being welded . The fit of everything is just that damned good. I think this is what I was most impressed with.
Oh... and there are no grinds on any of the welds. It isn't needed.
I've always been a big fan of true, custom cages built by someone who knows what they're doing if you intend to race W2W. This year has solidified my position greatly. So far I've seen a professional cage stand up to a VIOLENT multiple roll with no give at all, I've watched a professional build a true cage, I've seen split ERW tubing from an Autopower bolt-in, and I've seen a homemade cage collapse in a minor single rollover.
Yep... I feel pretty damned safe in my car. How about you?</TD></TR></TABLE>
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Eek. I've never seen that before, thats kind of ugly sounding.
Any of you lurking in here wondering about racing, don't skimp on the cage. I'm increasingly glad I never had to "use" my bolt-in, ERW cage for the years I drove on track with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh yeah! If I ever can go w2w, Gran' master Piper will be caging the old teg. Come to think of it, maybe I should get on his waiting list now, and be in his shop in 2 years...
Eek. I've never seen that before, thats kind of ugly sounding.
Any of you lurking in here wondering about racing, don't skimp on the cage. I'm increasingly glad I never had to "use" my bolt-in, ERW cage for the years I drove on track with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh yeah! If I ever can go w2w, Gran' master Piper will be caging the old teg. Come to think of it, maybe I should get on his waiting list now, and be in his shop in 2 years...
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From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Maxx44)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Maxx44 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ummm....should I be feeling safe???...I'm hoping so... 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Guess who built your cage
.
Yep. Youre safe. Just dont test that statement.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Guess who built your cage
.Yep. Youre safe. Just dont test that statement.
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From: Cragsmoor, NY, USA
Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Catch 22)
I was hoping you'd say that. 
I have no plans on testing the integrity of the cage....but its nice to know its been put together with the concern of the occupant.....thank you !!
I have no plans on testing the integrity of the cage....but its nice to know its been put together with the concern of the occupant.....thank you !!
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Doctor CorteZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does your cage have the typical "shortcut boxes" ? or is it done right ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You've mentioned this in a couple of other posts. Explain, please.
You've mentioned this in a couple of other posts. Explain, please.
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Catch 22)
If you are talking about perches, I would like to hear the logic too. The perches are much more labor intensive than just welding in a plate. It sure is a lot easier to just drill a hole in the floorboard & then slip a piece of material in there after the top of the cage is done. The use of a perch allows the area to be boxed & if done right is stronger. A good example is the front & main hoop points in a Honda or Acura. A piece of 'square tubing' (rail, floorboard, perch) is much stronger than a piece of angle iron (plate welded onto rail & floorboard). I have heard some people try to equate the verticle surfaces as having a cookie cutter effect on the floorboard. Having said that, the floorboard is far weaker than the rail. The cookie cutter effect is easily negated by using a plate of the same size or larger where the floorboard is.
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Steppin Razor)
Birmingham, Alabama. And http://www.kirkracing.com.
I towed 2 round trips there and back to get my cage done by him. That's a ten hour tow for me, one way. He's that good.
I towed 2 round trips there and back to get my cage done by him. That's a ten hour tow for me, one way. He's that good.
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've watched a professional build a true cage, I've seen split ERW tubing from an Autopower bolt-in
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to elaborate on this?
Also, why would you want to grind your welds?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to elaborate on this?
Also, why would you want to grind your welds?
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (joeseph)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by joeseph »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, why would you want to grind your welds?</TD></TR></TABLE>
To make them pretty
To make them pretty
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (joeseph)
ERW is seamed tubing. Not only can it split, but it is recognized as being weaker than DOM. The GCR (and CCR?) requires thicker wall or larger diameter when using ERW.
Use DOM. Cost a little more, but your life is worth it (well... most of you at least).
As far as perches or boxes, Mark uses the "drop it through the floor" technique. I prefer that over the perches because that allows a larger plate on the floor pan (Attachment plates are limited to 100 sq inches by the GCR. Fewer sides of a "box" means a bigger plate on the floor). But it seems to me that the boxes would be OK.
And Mark, like Piper and Puckett, stays very busy. If you want him to build you something custom you have to plan way ahead and make an appointment.
Use DOM. Cost a little more, but your life is worth it (well... most of you at least).
As far as perches or boxes, Mark uses the "drop it through the floor" technique. I prefer that over the perches because that allows a larger plate on the floor pan (Attachment plates are limited to 100 sq inches by the GCR. Fewer sides of a "box" means a bigger plate on the floor). But it seems to me that the boxes would be OK.
And Mark, like Piper and Puckett, stays very busy. If you want him to build you something custom you have to plan way ahead and make an appointment.
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Doctor CorteZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does your cage have the typical "shortcut boxes" ? or is it done right ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
They're hardly shortcut boxes. I've seen the same cage crash tested HARD, and similar designs crashed really badly. Not a single one had a deformed cage.
There's a lot of thought that goes into where Mitch puts the boxes.
Warren
They're hardly shortcut boxes. I've seen the same cage crash tested HARD, and similar designs crashed really badly. Not a single one had a deformed cage.
There's a lot of thought that goes into where Mitch puts the boxes.
Warren
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What the hell is a shortcut box?
I've never even heard that term before.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sorry , its a term I use not many people are aware of , it refers to the box at the rocker attachment point , bad design IMHO , too much deflection.
its a shortcut because it saves you from cutting the floor of the car to drop the tube down to weld it...
I've never even heard that term before.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sorry , its a term I use not many people are aware of , it refers to the box at the rocker attachment point , bad design IMHO , too much deflection.
its a shortcut because it saves you from cutting the floor of the car to drop the tube down to weld it...
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Warren)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
They're hardly shortcut boxes. I've seen the same cage crash tested HARD, and similar designs crashed really badly. Not a single one had a deformed cage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not doubting the safety of the cage , I'm doubting its as stiff as possible.
if you're adding that weight to the car , wouldnt you want it as stiff as possible ?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's a lot of thought that goes into where Mitch puts the boxes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Mitch offers a decent cage for a good price , the design does nothing for me , just look at the rear downtubes....
please dont take that the wrong way , I'm not attacking your cage , I simply dont agree with how he builds his cages...
They're hardly shortcut boxes. I've seen the same cage crash tested HARD, and similar designs crashed really badly. Not a single one had a deformed cage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not doubting the safety of the cage , I'm doubting its as stiff as possible.
if you're adding that weight to the car , wouldnt you want it as stiff as possible ?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's a lot of thought that goes into where Mitch puts the boxes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Mitch offers a decent cage for a good price , the design does nothing for me , just look at the rear downtubes....
please dont take that the wrong way , I'm not attacking your cage , I simply dont agree with how he builds his cages...
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Doctor CorteZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Mitch offers a decent cage for a good price , the design does nothing for me , just look at the rear downtubes....</TD></TR></TABLE>
What is different about his downtubes than any other cage? I've seen Piper cages with the X style and the standard straight-back style, and both. I've seen them to the shock towers and into the rear hatch. It all depends on what the user wants and the application.
Mitch offers a decent cage for a good price , the design does nothing for me , just look at the rear downtubes....</TD></TR></TABLE>
What is different about his downtubes than any other cage? I've seen Piper cages with the X style and the standard straight-back style, and both. I've seen them to the shock towers and into the rear hatch. It all depends on what the user wants and the application.
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From: boldly scornful of higher mental function, US
Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (SpiceyRice)
Sweet Jesus Ewan. Every time I see your car I get so overcome with envy it makes me sick.
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (SpiceyRice)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpiceyRice »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now I'm curious, what are these boxes called?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the wrong way to do something.
that rear pickup point is incorrect as well...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the wrong way to do something.
that rear pickup point is incorrect as well...
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What is different about his downtubes than any other cage? I've seen Piper cages with the X style and the standard straight-back style, </TD></TR></TABLE>
neither of those triangulate anything , thats where you gain strenth.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've seen them to the shock towers and into the rear hatch</TD></TR></TABLE>
who cares whether the shocks or hatch moves ? the main goal is to keep suspension angles from deflecting , not the shock or hatch...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It all depends on what the user wants and the application.</TD></TR></TABLE>
why would the owner tell the cage builder how to do his job ?
some things are up to the owner , but cage designing isnt most peoples forte.
What is different about his downtubes than any other cage? I've seen Piper cages with the X style and the standard straight-back style, </TD></TR></TABLE>
neither of those triangulate anything , thats where you gain strenth.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've seen them to the shock towers and into the rear hatch</TD></TR></TABLE>
who cares whether the shocks or hatch moves ? the main goal is to keep suspension angles from deflecting , not the shock or hatch...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It all depends on what the user wants and the application.</TD></TR></TABLE>
why would the owner tell the cage builder how to do his job ?
some things are up to the owner , but cage designing isnt most peoples forte.
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Doctor CorteZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">neither of those triangulate anything , thats where you gain strenth.
who cares whether the shocks or hatch moves ? the main goal is to keep suspension angles from deflecting , not the shock or hatch...
why would the owner tell the cage builder how to do his job ?
some things are up to the owner , but cage designing isnt most peoples forte.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not beig argumentative, but where would you put the rear braces in a typical Honda/Acura application? So you're gripe with the Piper cage is not a safety issue, but a stiffness issue?
As for the owner dictating to the fabricator, normally I would agree, but there are circumstances where the owner may have input. If the car is driven to the track, they would not want an X in back so they can fit spare wheels, stuff like that.
who cares whether the shocks or hatch moves ? the main goal is to keep suspension angles from deflecting , not the shock or hatch...
why would the owner tell the cage builder how to do his job ?
some things are up to the owner , but cage designing isnt most peoples forte.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not beig argumentative, but where would you put the rear braces in a typical Honda/Acura application? So you're gripe with the Piper cage is not a safety issue, but a stiffness issue?
As for the owner dictating to the fabricator, normally I would agree, but there are circumstances where the owner may have input. If the car is driven to the track, they would not want an X in back so they can fit spare wheels, stuff like that.
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Re: Got To Spend Friday Working On My Cage With Mark Stewart... (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but where would you put the rear braces in a typical Honda/Acura application? </TD></TR></TABLE>
control arm mounting points.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So you're gripe with the Piper cage is not a safety issue, but a stiffness issue?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yesh.
not just Piper though , its most cages I see.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for the owner dictating to the fabricator, normally I would agree, but there are circumstances where the owner may have input. If the car is driven to the track, they would not want an X in back so they can fit spare wheels, stuff like that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
good point , but mostly I speak of trailered cars on this matter.
but where would you put the rear braces in a typical Honda/Acura application? </TD></TR></TABLE>
control arm mounting points.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So you're gripe with the Piper cage is not a safety issue, but a stiffness issue?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yesh.
not just Piper though , its most cages I see.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for the owner dictating to the fabricator, normally I would agree, but there are circumstances where the owner may have input. If the car is driven to the track, they would not want an X in back so they can fit spare wheels, stuff like that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
good point , but mostly I speak of trailered cars on this matter.