hey just wondering if any of you guys were running boost
if so could u plz tell me a little about your set up.?
thanks in advance

 

I am using a greddy 18g on my gsr. Barely any lag at all. I would say sizing a right turbo for your engine that optimizes its efficiency will give you a significant advantage in autox.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrew 825SM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am using a greddy 18g on my gsr. Barely any lag at all. I would say sizing a right turbo for your engine that optimizes its efficiency will give you a significant advantage in autox.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed, but the more I think about it...the more I think I could benefit from a s/c over a turbo setup for AutoX specific. Lag would be much more minimal on a large roadcourse IMO.

I got smoked at two AutoX's recently in Street Mod by a guy with a 400+ hp Supra!!!! Both races I was within 2 seconds, but that's a lot in AutoX world. I keep leaning towards a better suspension and a JRSC setup.

 

Sounds cool, is there an event schedule for the Omaha area anywhere? I'm probably going to be back there in late august/early sept. Do they run SM2? Thinking of bringing the rex.

 

hey thanks for the repleys ..
i dont know why but my turbo goes up to 15 lbs on a stock motor..= P ima guessing thats how the turbo was made. its stock turbo off some domestic ..
is there a product or a way to turn it down??

 

I'm sorry to be an *******, but if you have no idea how your boost pressure is regulated, you should sell your car immediately.

 

Just practice and master left foot braking...keep it in the zone.

And if you are running FWD, you may want to remove all the swaybars to give MORE understeer to overcome the tremedous power that will give you too much oversteering...this work well to setup my friend's boosted Civic, dunno about yours.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by markw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds cool, is there an event schedule for the Omaha area anywhere? I'm probably going to be back there in late august/early sept. Do they run SM2? Thinking of bringing the rex. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Definately. Check it out... http://www.nrscca.com They have an active message forum as well.

No SM2 though. You'd be forced into D Mod and there's a fairly quick Caterham 7 that usually runs that class. I did have a faster time overall than him this past race.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just practice and master left foot braking...keep it in the zone.

And if you are running FWD, you may want to remove all the swaybars to give MORE understeer to overcome the tremedous power that will give you too much oversteering...this work well to setup my friend's boosted Civic, dunno about yours.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tremendous power out of a corner will result in severe understeer because you are overloading the front tires on the exit of the turn. Can someone quote me wrong on this?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.....And if you are running FWD, you may want to remove all the swaybars to give MORE understeer to overcome the tremedous power that will give you too much oversteering...this work well to setup my friend's boosted Civic, dunno about yours.</TD></TR></TABLE>

now there is a peice of quality advice. beyond the advice to learn lfb, the rest is bunk.

the man to ask about this would be mark daddio. i have a feeling that at this point his first word of warning would be "look out for broken parts. lots of em". beyond that, i see a major problem in getting any large amount of hp to the road. up to 225hp adding an lsd and some wide rubber like a 225/45/15 hoosier or something similar would probably work ok. anything less then that and you're asking for trouble. and like daddio said, bringing a fwd car to sm is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. a better bet would be to leave the car alone and work on the driver.

nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the man to ask about this would be mark daddio. i have a feeling that at this point his first word of warning would be "look out for broken parts. lots of em". beyond that, i see a major problem in getting any large amount of hp to the road. up to 225hp adding an lsd and some wide rubber like a 225/45/15 hoosier or something similar would probably work ok. anything less then that and you're asking for trouble. and like daddio said, bringing a fwd car to sm is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. a better bet would be to leave the car alone and work on the driver.

nate</TD></TR></TABLE>

I beg to disagree. I'm quite confident I can be very competitive in SM with my Civic. So far I'm only off about a second on two different occasions with a heavily modded Supra which probably has 400 hp or so.

I'm confident I can get FTD locally with a better suspension, Kumhos or Hoosiers (instead of the RA-1's I'm using) and a little more hp (JRSC would be really nice).

 

there is a HUGE difference between being competitive locally and being competitive nationally. if local events are your only goal then sure, a fwd car might win occasionally. bring that same car to nats out in topeka and you'll be singing a different tune. daddio's car was putting 250hp to the wheels with a severe mis-fire. he has gone through extensive custom suspension work in an effort to put all the power down. he still has to launch the car at idle so that he doesn't burn his tires into oblivion at the start.

nate

 

&gt;&gt;daddio's car was putting 250hp to the wheels with a severe mis-fire...&lt;&lt;

... but the main thing is, Daddio was drivng it! I had the pleasure of gridding next to him last year. He was running a T25 turbo with a nifty air/water intercooler. After that experience (my first nats) I realized that if a FWD is like "bringing a knife to a gunfight", then bringing a normally aspirated FWD is like bringing harsh language... Now I also have a T25 installed on my D16. Life is good.

About the JRSC, IMO it's a waste of time and $$$. You'll be a lot better off with a turbo. By turbocharging you'll make *a lot* more power, lag or "non-linear" power delivery will not be an issue (i promise), and primarily... charge temps will not go sky high (with an intercooler). Without some type of aftercooler, a JRSC will be useless after about 20 seconds into your run. IMO, an aftercooler just adds a lot more $$$ to what is already an overpriced underperformer. I've driven a JRSC'd Civic (w/ 6 psi pulley) before and was thoroughly unimpressed. It felt like an anemic V6. I spent a lot less on my little "junkyard" turbo (from a Eclipse GSX), and got *much* better performance. Well, good luck whatever you decide... my .02 cents.

 

T-25 may be a bit too small, he should go with a 16g or a straight T3.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrew 825SM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Tremendous power out of a corner will result in severe understeer because you are overloading the front tires on the exit of the turn. Can someone quote me wrong on this?

</TD></TR></TABLE>


He's running around 250whp with 8 psi in an EG. Suspensions are Buddy Club coilovers but I can't remember the settings. He's quite competitive in our local SM class and our region's competitors are often top National Tour finishers.
Logically, FWD with this much power should be concerned with traction. But in reality, the problem with oversteering exiting turns is more of a problem than understeer. Maybe you will realize this once you run your boosted car competitively, or else, I know it's hard to believe and explained...I havn't driven his car, but one can guess that the oversteering comes from the fact he needs left-foot brake and precise throttle contorl (no lift)...etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Logically, FWD with this much power should be concerned with traction. But in reality, the problem with oversteering exiting turns is more of a problem than understeer. Maybe you will realize this once you run your boosted car competitively, or else, I know it's hard to believe and explained...I havn't driven his car, but one can guess that the oversteering comes from the fact he needs left-foot brake and precise throttle contorl (no lift)...etc. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry but you're wrong.

Do not dial in understeer in a FWD if you want to be even remotely fast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Logically, FWD with this much power should be concerned with traction. But in reality, the problem with oversteering exiting turns is more of a problem than understeer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You contradict yourself, oversteering is a traction problem.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I know it's hard to believe and explained</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is hard to explain something you don't understand.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
one can guess that the oversteering comes from the fact he needs left-foot brake and precise throttle contorl (no lift)...etc. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you actually driven a FWD car? It doesn't sound like it. First off, if you need to get the car to rotate a little you just need a quick lift off the throttle. If you need more rotation you can trail brake into the turn. Should the back end ever come out more then you want just hammer the gas and counter steer as necessary.

 

When I meant traction I meant "putting power to the ground". I was replying to the post that says the driving wheels do not get traction due to power.

I am not arguing about the proper techniques to drive a FWD, but its alternate setup after FI. Throttle response on a FI in comparison to your NA car is more trickier than routine methods of induced-oversteering. I guess I should use the word "tail-happy" instead of "oversteer" as that FI EG snaps violently all the time and spun...unlike most other FWDs that understeers and prowling off course.
Or put it this way, it gets too much rotation too easily...so a tiny bit of lift throttle on this particular FI EG will result in spinning.
I was simply stating the interesting fact of the setup of this FI fwd car, not the common knowledge of driving a NA fwd. While everyone else try to put in a bigger rear swaybar or lowers rear tire pressure to increase rotation, this EG actually needs to add understeer to overcome the abundance of "tail-happiness".



Modified by nEoMuGen at 12:33 AM 6/18/2003

 

Let clear something up, are you saying that on exiting a turn this car will oversteer while accelerating due to that fact that the car is FI? Is this correct?

 

His car will spin exiting the turn if he didn't LFB to maintain his rpm to stay out of turbo lag before the initial turn in, once the turbo kicks in when exiting, his car would usually snap and end up spinning.

But then again, unlike our cars which are so forgiven, (He has LSD too) any improper throttle control on his car would end up spinning. Not just exiting the turn, but mediam speed slaloms, during apexes, or even at places other big hp rwd cars don't spin.
However, once he gets a clean run, that rare non-DNF run usually tops out the class.

I forgot what spring rates he uses, but like I said, he removed the rear sway bar giving more understeer to cancel out the tail-happiness in an effort to make the car more neutral.

So for the one that started the thread, if your hybrid project has such characteristics of tail-happiness, you can try to add more understeer to achive neutrality.

 

Now if only the boost gauge (not the turbo) is what makes a FWD car oversteer on corner exit, I would put in two boost gauges in every fwd car I will drive from now on.

As far as I know (and there’s a lot that I don’t), other than locking up the rear wheels, in the end sufficient weight transfer is the only thing that will get a FWD car to oversteer, no matter how much power it has, lsd or no lsd, or the number of turbos that it has. But seriously, are you really saying that this FWD civic swings its tail out as you power out of a turn while on the gas? If so, then I'm speechless and that civic is one of a kind as far as I know.

Edit: Back to the original thread, yes I do autox sometimes in STX with a turbo car (talon). It's got a small T25 turbo that reaches 15 psi by about 2300 rpm (in 2nd or higher gears), has no lag in the midrange, but cannot hold this boost past about 5800 rpm. A small turbo is a good idea for autox, although when this one dies, I think I'll settle for one not quite as small as a T25.

 

wow, I think neomugen is talking about my car and maybe I should clear things up a little. First the car doesn't oversteer out of the corner. It might look like it's oversteering out of the corner but it actually happens before I enter corners. What happen was my rear brakes lock up very easily last season (too much tension on the ebrake cable) so the car is very unstable under braking and cornering, the rear will snap out without warning. It's much much better now since I fix the rear brake and alignment. Also, The extra hp and torque can really upset the balance of the car. I think the key of driving a high hp fwd car is like treating a woman.....really gentle and a lot of patient.

 

Forgot your HT name or else, I would have consult you before posting....

 

haven driven kekek-18's turbo civic, all i can say is "holy fuggin ****!" the power is absolutley insane, and he would need pro stock dragster tires to put it down with any efficiency. due to the particular setup,it is a very tough car to control, BUT in the right hands (mike "jr" johnson in particular) it can easily do very well, even at the national level.
neomugen and everyone else, kevin's car (kekek-18) is an absolute blast and will hydroplane on it's own molten rubber gasses at the slightest throttle input, which really unsettles his car. it is hard to compare it to anything else.
as i think solo-x will agree, i find that my personal car (naturally aspirated civic) is much much easier to control, and although many of you might gasp, i think it is competitive nationally also. i am far from the driver daddio is, and have the utmost respect for him. but, on the other side of the coin i wanna beat his *** like the bitch that he is......

 

&gt;&gt; i am far from the driver daddio is, and have the utmost respect for him. but, on the other side of the coin i wanna beat his *** like the bitch that he is...... &lt;&lt;

Heh.. ahem, ok...

Does anyone know for sure whether Daddio will be back to compete in Street Mod again this year?