the prelude is 01 SS and it has a AEM cold Air and denso plugs and seeing what is next. The next upgrade would either be a DC header or some unorthodox pulleys. WHat is the best numbers that a DC header will pull and what will pulleys will give

 

From every ACTUAL dyno that I've ever seen of a DC header (no butt-dynos please) it's a POS and will net you about 3-4 whp, while sucking $400+ from your wallet. Save up some more and get a REAL header.

Do a search on the pulleys; the ps and aux pulley switch will be fine, the general consensus is that swapping the crank pulley will give you spun bearings. IMO, don't touch it.

OT, but because I'm sure it will come up again: <U>&lt;begin rant&gt;</U> Yes, he has an SS and, as usual, I'm sure that someone will come out and scream "Sell it and buy a 5 spd." Has anyone stopped to think how ******* ridiculous that statement/idea is?!? My neighbor bought his 2k1 SS 4 months before I got my base, and yes it's slow as ****, but no he can't just sell it tomorrow and buy a 5 spd or SH; he'd probably have to swallow about $8k+ in negative equity depending on what his interest rate was.

We drive what we drive, hell if I could go back a year I might buy that used A6 I was looking at, but it's too late now, I'd lose a bundle trying to switch. Think about how dumb it is before you say it, even if it IS true. If used 350Z's were going for around $25k, how many of YOU could sell YOUR car tomorrow? Thought so... <U>&lt;/end rant&gt;</U>


Modified by Final Flash at 11:22 PM 6/4/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">while sucking $400</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, 400 bux!! I payed 260 W/shipping for my CC header. And as far as it sucking, yeah it could be better. But you payed 900 bux for your header, for 6 more Hp then a DC.. 900-260=640......Holy ****, you payed 640 bux for a measly 6 more Hp over a DC. Geez thats, $106.66 a horse over the DC.. Man you got a bargain

 

just get the AEM pulley kit. itws the sam thing without the crank pulley. the problem with the crank pulley is like the harmonic dampener or something like that. not a good thing, just get the AEM

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, 400 bux!! I payed 260 W/shipping for my CC header. And as far as it sucking, yeah it could be better. But you payed 900 bux for your header, for 6 more Hp then a DC.. 900-260=640......Holy ****, you payed 640 bux for a measly 6 more Hp over a DC. Geez thats, $106.66 a horse over the DC.. Man you got a bargain </TD></TR></TABLE>
Why must we always go through the same ****?!? I didn't want a bargain dude, I wanted hp, I wanted quality, I wanted weight savings, so I bought the Mugen header. If I want a bargain, I'll go to the flea market. If the SMSP header had been out I would have spent the, whatever $1500 on that. I wanted the Mugen header, I had a $1000, I paid $1000, end of story. I don't give 2 ***** about the hp/$ ratio. It wasn't my last dollar, and if I had to do it over, I'd do it again so **** it.

Have you seen what most DC headers look like after a year or 2 dude? Let's see if my grand was well spent after my header is still immaculate years later and yours is rusted all to hell and falling apart. If you couldv'e afforded it, tell me (with a straight face) that you wouldn't have done the same thing?!? Thought so.

The bottom line is that if we line up at the stoplight/tree in identical 5th gens and the only difference between our cars is the header, guess what? YOU'LL LOSE. Next.

 

If I could afford it? Plz, dude.....
In fact this is my 2nd DC header, last one a SS, was on my H23. And I will tell you this much, Never had any rust onit. Had that SS header for 4 years on my H23. You think your header will look great after finger prints, oil and **** get onit? Or does MUGEN have some special composite steel, that magically removes oil and such off the header so it wont stain?
I could careless what the damn header looks like anyway, my heatsheild is covering it..Im not about the Bling, bling factor

 

pullies do nothing don't wast your money. And DC sucks
there are lots of headers that are far better.

 

The bottom line dude is <U>hp is hp</U>, whether it be 6 or 60. There is no such thing as "measly" hp, that 6 whp may be the difference between a narrow win and a narrow loss for all I know, and I'd rather have 'em and not need 'em than...well, you know the rest. I've seen/heard of people doing strange things to scrape up every spare horse they can find, and I'm, admittedly, slow as **** right now so I need every available pony I can get.

Next question: following your aforementioned hp/$ formula, if you would pay $300 for @3 whp, why wouldn't you pay $900 for @9, if money wasn't a factor? Please explain/elaborate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, 400 bux!! I payed 260 W/shipping for my CC header. And as far as it sucking, yeah it could be better. But you payed 900 bux for your header, for 6 more Hp then a DC.. 900-260=640......Holy ****, you payed 640 bux for a measly 6 more Hp over a DC. Geez thats, $106.66 a horse over the DC.. Man you got a bargain </TD></TR></TABLE>

$260/3 is about $86/hp, $900/9 is $100/hp. You guys paid roughly equivalent per horse power amounts, he just wanted more, like he said. No reason to get in a pissing match over it, it's not at all the purpose of this thread.

My recommendation is to put together the cash (which you almost have enough for anyway) and talk to Brian (prospeed on this board) about the Prospeed header, if it fits a Prelude. Otherwise, wait till you have the cash for an SMSP or Mugen.

I don't know about GReddy, I have heard they are ok.

 

he's just replying to <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From every ACTUAL dyno that I've ever seen of a DC header (no butt-dynos please) it's a POS and will net you about 3-4 whp, while sucking $400+ from your wallet. Save up some more and get a REAL header. </TD></TR></TABLE>

He tried to say it sucks and is a waste of money. WHile it might only do 3-5 hp, maybe that's all he's looking for or needs. It is an SS, and right there is a slight loss of power to the wheels. If he was looking for $100/hp and gaining 10 hp.. should have gotten a 5 speed (since manuals retail for less than auto's and put more hp to the ground). For the $250 and the 3-5 hp.. that doesn't suck that bad. Look at the new AEM V2, costs $350 or something way up there and lands you about 5-8 depending on the car and the rest of the setup. Pullies don't give you any more power from the engine, just a little more at the wheels.. and run around $300. So get the pullies and the header, you're at around a 6-what.. 10? hp bump at the wheels possibly, and for around ~$600. Cheaper than the mugen header, about the same power to the wheels possibly, and more parts on your parts list.

not to mention you can empty the trunk and remove some other "un-needed" items and pick up even more speed for free.


Modified by rjr162 at 6:35 PM 6/5/2003

 

wow, my AEM pulliues cost me 162 shipped, and i paid someone to install them, making it 192 total.

 

And they are going for $129 now for the set, and only take an hour or so to do yourself.
One of the best "bang for the buck" upgrades you can do.

 

I say go with the AEM pulleys. As for the dude up top with the dc trying to make it sound better than it is, lay off. Almost everyone who has one has had the bracket brake off sometime or another and like the other guy said if you had the money you cant tell me you wouldnt have gotten a mugen or now the smsp. I hate when people start making ignorant statements cause someone else has more money to spend on parts than they do and they get all up tight.

 

A header for you car isn't going to do much, expecially a DC header. If you look at the piping, they are pretty much the same size. Save your money and buy pullies or a VAFC controller

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bolt on lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say go with the AEM pulleys. As for the dude up top with the dc trying to make it sound better than it is, lay off. Almost everyone who has one has had the bracket brake off sometime or another and like the other guy said if you had the money you cant tell me you wouldnt have gotten a mugen or now the smsp. I hate when people start making ignorant statements cause someone else has more money to spend on parts than they do and they get all up tight. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ME &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And as far as it sucking, yeah it could be better. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You need to learn how to read posts. And as far as me not haveing the money, what kind of lame as$ crap is that? Its the same reason I dont buy NISMO exhaust (1,800 bux) for my Z. Its Way over priced. I just dont see spending $1G on a header. I never said DC was better, great, ect... I was simply stateing that my old DC SS never rusted, and the bracket never broke. 4 years I used it. But if I where to get a differant one it would be Greddy, and not MUGEN..

 

the ~$300 i said was thinking the Unortho pullies (blah blah that debate crap. My brother is doing 12.91's on stock internals on 9-11psi with them and there hasn't been a single problem, not even any odd noises. They've been on for something like 17,000+ miles now IIRC). But even still, get them AEM's for $130 and a greddy header for what.. $400? You're still under the $1000 of the Mugen and will still have gains that will be close if not match what the mugen would do on that setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rjr162 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(blah blah that debate crap) </TD></TR></TABLE>Blah, blah, blah is right, there is no debate. I swear that I read more opinionated, unsubstantiated garbage in here sometimes. Produce some real numbers on either the DC header (or the Greddy for that matter) or STFU (cottonwoodz).

Concerning the AEM V2: In an intake shoot-out in a reputable publication about 2 months ago the AEM V2 got smoked by the Injen CAI by over 5 whp and even more torque. AEM made a bunch of lame excuses, but even they couldn'r replicate their "claimed" gains, and in the testing the V2 provided gains SMALLER than the AEM classic CAI, in hp and trq. That damn sure doesn't justify paying another $150- $200.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But even still, get them AEM's for $130 and a greddy header for what.. $400? You're still under the $1000 of the Mugen and will still have gains that will be close if not match what the mugen would do on that setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok so I could have gotten the Unorthodox pullies and AEM CAI for less than I paid for the Mugen header, so what?!? I already have the CAI, and for every success story with the crank pulley there are 5 horror stories, so I'm admittedly not brave enough to take that chance.

All I hear is people bitching about the cost (cottonwoodz) of Mugen's products, then turn around and say that cost is no object, illogical bullshit. You know that if it was $250 everyone would have one on their 5th gen, without question. I didn't buy it BECAUSE it was expensive, I bought it because it performs. And no I'm not a JDM freak, hell if I had known that SMSP was so close to production with their header, I probably would have waited for one of theirs, but it's too late now. Produce a decent dyno from the DC/Greddy header, then tell me you would rather have one of those, or are you just saying that you don't want one because you're just another Mugen/JDM hater?!? Here's the Mugen header/exhaust combo's dyno in case you've never seen it:

What other header + exhaust that YOU know of does that? None. SMSP header: definitely, Prospeed header: maybe, but nothing else available comes close to the Mugen exhaust manifold's performance, period, end of story. I'm not worrying about what I could have gotten with that money, I'm still gonna get the rest of the stuff anyway, so what's the big deal?

 

Anyone has a link for the SMSP header?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Redsim &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone has a link for the SMSP header?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You want to actually SEE the header, or you want to see the dyno?

 

182.8..hell yeah, I would spend that much on a header...in fact I really f**cking want it, but I'm broke(speeding tickets) and bought a used DC cc header off a friend for 100 and i'm happy w/ it, have been for a year(the braket broke though) and the mugen header is definatly in the future...can I buy yours?
anyway- to answer dudes question the AEM pulleys are much differant than the UR ones #1 the UR ones are same size as stock, just lighter #2 AEM's are bigger than stock as well as being a little lighter, UR is the only option for me as I have removed my ac and can only use one belt(one that fits perfect anyway) and thier tolerances are higher for manufactering, however more expensive(case in point, you get what you pay for) I would buy the pulleys(UR) and save for a mugen header, you won't regret not doing it later like me...however I found a nice gain from my DC, so do what you want...if you can't wait ..get both

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trusttuned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyway- to answer dudes question the AEM pulleys are much different than the UR ones: #1) the UR ones are same size as stock, just lighter. #2) AEM's are bigger than stock as well as being a little lighter, UR is the only option for me as I have removed my ac and can only use one belt (one that fits perfect anyway) and their tolerances are higher for manufacturing, however more expensive (case in point, you get what you pay for) I would buy the pulleys (UR) </TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you using the UR crank pulley too? If so, how long (in mileage) have you had it on your car?

 

The unortho aren't the same size as stock... The crank is somewhat smaller while the others are a touch bigger, hence the "under-driving".. but other than that, yes... they are alot lighter

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Final Flash &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><U>&lt;begin rant&gt;</U> <U>&lt;/end rant&gt;</U>
Modified by Final Flash at 11:22 PM 6/4/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Jea, HTML code kicks @ss. Anyway, as far as the header thing goes, now that I look at it and what everyone has typed, it seems to make more sense to just say $1000.00 for a header, Greddy Turbo Kit, MAX $2000.00 on ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33742, so why not just save up one more thousand, and have way more HP gain that you could have with just a header. You figure 9HP = $1000.00, so $2000.00 = 18HP with header which is &lt; the HP you will gain with a turbo setup. I'm not a track junkie, just a daily driver that likes to have fun with the car every now and then. So 6psi is more than enough for me so its not like your killing your engine with the turbo. Actually, if I could go less psi, I would and still would be gaining more HP than a header would give me. Despite my breakthrough reasoning , I still say go with something better than a DC header. I own a RS*R on a ej1 and even that kicks DC's @ss. Greddy and Apexi are really good ones too. Look at those. Just cause everyone has a part dosn't mean its the best. Might mean its the cheapest costing! Not nocking DC, but there's better...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kay_animation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyway, as far as the header thing goes, now that I look at it and what everyone has typed, it seems to make more sense to just say $1000.00 for a header, Greddy Turbo Kit, MAX $2000.00 on ebayso why not just save up one more thousand, and have way more HP gain that you could have with just a header. You figure 9HP = $1000.00, so $2000.00 = 18HP with header which is &lt; the HP you will gain with a turbo setup. I would and still would be gaining more HP than a header would give me. Despite my breakthrough reasoning , I still say go with something better than a DC header.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No doubt that (almost) everyone's eventual goal is to be boosted, but in order to do it CORRECTLY, I determined that it's going to cost a lot more than just the price of the kit.

I also had a turbo plan, but the expected entrance fee to BoostLand was gonna cost me about $5k, so I'm gonna have to wait until next Spring. Until then I'll have to settle for other minor mods (flywheel, TB, IM, nitrous, maybe cams) for now to tide me over until then.

 

If used 350Z's were going for around $25k, how many of YOU could sell YOUR car tomorrow?

I could!

However, I'd buy a new one! Even though I can, I won't because my wife and I don't have car payments and we know that our Hondas will last for quite some time. I bought Mugen parts for the same reason we bought our Hondas... excellent quality products that perform as advertised and will last for quite some time

I saw the word Header in the title and that my buddy Final Flash was the last one to post and I figured that there must be a Mugen war afoot! Well, I'm here to back you up, Final Flash, my man!

DC Header------- POS, but cheap!
Mugen Header--- Really F'n nice, but not cheap!

I think that about sums it up, don't you? You see, there are trade-offs for both!

Final Flash, keep fighting the good fight and good luck on getting the rest of your Mugen goodness!

The last piece of my Mugen goodness goes on in a few weeks! King Motorsports is installing my Mugen Suspension and Type S STB. I'm looking forward to going back to their shop!

I always enjoy these debates! I get to read the same debate with the same arguments at least once a month! Thanks for not letting me down!