I'll be completely stripping out the coupe, two racing seats, a dash, and roll cage will be all left inside. The blocks will be stock for awhile, so I want to know which stock block will yield better results with a turbo?

Max boost for each on a healthy block?

I don't believe the LS ever had a tranny w/an lsd in it, so who offers and lsd for the LS tranny?

Purpose: I'm looking for mid to low 12's on street drags (probably the new kumho's coming out, haven't decided.) No nitrous.

Yes, I did search in the recent and archived threads but didn't find a question like this one.

Thanks

 

Boosted B18c

 

Please explain advantages, thanks.

 

Boosted B20 w/GSR tranny

When I got bored of that setup, I dropped in a H22 and squeeze a helluva lot of nos on it .

 

How much boost and what kind of whp numbers were you getting with the b20? 1/4th's?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itzxeo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much boost and what kind of whp numbers were you getting with the b20? 1/4th's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't know how much HP since I never dyno'd it, but with 12 lbs of boost, in a 1800 lb hatch, on 22x7x13 slicks running off the downpipe, I ran a best of 11.6 @ 118mph..... but it took me 6 runs to get there (first run was a sad 13.2 run and no traction). But that's just one example & possibility.

 

Nice! Was it a stock b20 block on regular 93 octane?

Thanks,

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itzxeo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please explain advantages, thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

One word: VTEC, y0!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itzxeo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice! Was it a stock b20 block on regular 93 octane?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Setup: Stock JDM B20B Orthia motor (B20Z pistons), GSR S80 tranny, P75 LS ECU w/XS Engineering program (ran richer and redlines at 8500), Walbro 255 lph intank fuel pump, Vortech 12:1 FPR, B&M fuel pressure regulator on the GSR fuel rail, stock GSR 240cc injectors (if I had better/bigger injectors, I would've pushed 15 lbs at the track on the stock motor), all run on California 91 octane. It was a T3/T04E and in 1st - 3rd gears on 14" stock wheels, the tires would light up at 4500 rpms when the turbo was making full boost

 

B18C &gt; B18B or B20

Nuff said.

 

Perhaps. I've heard the b18 has stronger sleeves, rods and pistons stock than the gsr and lower compression. Better for turbo? Maybe... The b18C1 has piston squirters though, which the ls engine does not.

Advantage of LS over GSR? LS is cheaper. Better, I dunno yet.

More info please?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itzxeo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Perhaps. I've heard the b18 has stronger sleeves, rods and pistons stock than the gsr and lower compression. Better for turbo?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You heard wrong.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itzxeo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Advantage of LS over GSR? LS is cheaper. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's cheaper for a reason....

Is that an advantage?

 

i just bought a b18b on saturday looking to boost within a couple months, can't wait, either way you go its a win win situation, i went with the b18b becuase it was cheaper so if i blow it i won't be as mad.

 

I love the LS motor, its the underdog b series . Build any B series motor right and you will acheive your goals of 12's.

 

Can I boost 12 psi on a stock dyno tuned b18c1? Should I get the USDM or the JDM b18c1? Is one better than the other for boost? I don't really care about the emissions so that is not an issue. The USDM has a slightly lower compression so it may be a better choice....?

 

the advantages to the gsr is it has vtec and your can rev it higher which will add a nice amount of power with a drag kit and a stock gsr motor on about 10 psi tuned you can pull about 265 to 275. however the disadvantage is that it has higher compression so you cant really go over 10 on a stock motor. the ls advantages are lower compression i think they are 9:2:1 stock and a nice amount of torque as well as the gsr. disadvantage is no vtec cant rev as high. with a drag kit look to put down about 245 on 10psi. with a good ls engine you can go pretty high as long as you run higher octane gas i have seen people with stock ls engines runny as high as 15 to 18psi. no matter what use the gsr tranny and never run less than 93 octane.

 

To build a gsr to take 15 psi, what is required? I was looking at crower rods, forged pistons, and a block guard. Should I resleeve? Who makes good cams for a turbo gsr (crowers break a little to easy..)? What kind of head work should I have done? I know that with hondas you have to be very careful with port and polishing.

Also, this honda isn't my daily driver. I'm gonna have it torn apart for a few months in my garage while my friend and I do everything to it.

 

Here is a quick lesson for a few people in this thread.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I am not sure what amount of boost is safe. I am hearing different opinions and suggestions and I am confused. Can someone with similar setup give me some suggestions? Thank you.

BTW, I did a search too many already.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

First you have to remember, it doesn't matter how much boost you run. It's about how much HP you engine makes.
You can run 20psi on a small turbo safely. But with a larger turbo you wil have to run less boost since you will make more power.

*****************

This is what I use. Doesn't mean it's right. But it's what I use.
All below are with a perfect tune on some sort of engine management w/ the proper fuel system.

b-series limits
250 - 299 whp : Stock block
300 - 339 whp : Forged Pistons
340 - 389 whp : Forged Pistons, Rods, ARP Bolts & Studs
390 - +++ whp : Forged Pistons, Rods, Sleeves, ARP Bolts & Studs

*************
Here are some wise words from some fellow racers.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Originally posted by tony1
You will get more power at less boost but ultimately the power the engine can handle is dependent on hp, not boost pressure. With a bigger turbo making the same power at less boost, all you have is more lag. With the small turbo, you will get the same power (at more boost) with more midrange power and torque and less lag. Unless you are at the efficiency limits of your turbo, you're actually probably too big for your setup.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Originally posted by highmilehatch
you really have to take into consideration the amount of air that particular turbo is pushing into the engine itself, at those boost levels. For example, a larger turbo with bigger specs will push more air into the engine at that same boost level, and more potential for horsepower.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Originally posted by st00pid
well the engine doesnt know what boost is. The amount of air that gets into the motor is 300whp worth of air, regardless of the manifold pressure. I feel that 300whp is safe for stock engines on pump gas.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Originally posted by uglyasscivic
Boost is a measure of restriction from the turbo to the intake ports and valves. In a perfect world if there was no need to tune, what would hurt your motor? Horsepower. Horsepower is the only thing that can hurt your motor and since it is NOT a perfect world it must be properly tuned. Every combination of motors have their limits to how much horsepower they can make and a stock b-series bottom end can handle 300-365 whp regardless of the intake manifold pressure. The trick is to move the (peak) cylinder pressure (way) past TDC.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Originally posted by jinxproof99
that is a very good point. one which i think alot of people here(and elsewhere) don't understand. its not always the amount of boost you should be worried about, its the horsepower, a/f ratio, timing, etc.... for instance, some say a stock gsr will take 10 lbs of boost. well, theres a huge difference between a t3 @ 10 lbs and a t-66 @ 10 lbs. you must consider the whole equation, not just a part of it.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

2 questions!!!!!
How many goddamm times have we seen this topic?
Why isn't this topic in the FORCED INDUCTION FORUM?!!!?

 

Oh Great another gsr vs ls thread.

 

nice b20 setup

 

i would really go with the gsr think about all the more hp u starting with. So u can keep it stock and still be running some fast times (13's if ur good) ls or b20 are just to much of a headach to work on. If there not done right, there gonna go!! If u want something reliable go with the gsr, with lsd tranny. that would be alot bettet choice IMO