I've heard that some 5gen civic used the rear ITR sway bar and hung turns too hard and ripped the rear end... Is that true??? Could that happen???

 

A lot of people that have installed the Type-R rear swaybar on their 5G Civic and 3G Integra using the Hybrid Honda installation instructions ( http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/ITRon5G.html ) have experienced subframe tearout. The reason that the tearout occurs with this installation method is because the swaybar is mounted AWAY from the subframe. By mounting the swaybar AWAY from the subframe, the swaybar is able to exert leverage on the subframe. This leverage will lead to subframe flexing which will eventually lead to subframe tearout.

Now if you look at my Type-R rear swaybar installation instruction (aka. BSQ installation method - http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/s...r_install.html ) you will see that the swaybar is mounted DIRECTLY to the subframe. Since the swaybar is mounted DIRECTLY to the subframe the swaybar is not able to exert leverage on the subframe. By reducing the possibility of subframe flexing you greatly reduce the chance of subframe tearout. If you look at how the Type-R rear swaybar is mounted on the actual Integra Type-R you will notice that it is mounted DIRECTLY to the subframe and NOT AWAY from the subframe. A tremendous amount of people have installed the Type-R rear swaybar on their 3G Integras and 5G Civics using my installation instructions and there have been no reported problems of subframe tearouts.

If you have any other questions or concerns, let me know and I will be glad to help you out.

 

Oh there's no myth about it.....that "myth" costed me $120 in subframe repairs.

 

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone found out the conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Relatively soft springs and shocks can contribute to the problem as well. Higher spring rates and stiffer shocks reduce the tendency for body roll in the first place, thus reducing the amount of "work" the sway bar has to do.

I have seen an ITR rear bar tear out even when bolted directly to the subframe. However, in this case it was due to inadequate spring rates and stock shocks. The points on the control arms where the ITR endlinks attach is also part of the reason for the problem. A lot of smaller diameter aftermarket bars produce as much or more "anti-sway" because their attachment points are at the very end of the control arms, usually where the shocks mount. This results in decreased leverage against the whole system, thus reducing the necessary diameter for the sway bar, as well as reducing stress to the subframe.

 

I agree with this statement to an extent, but the #1 way to prevent subframe tearout it to properly mount a larger rear swaybar directly to the subframe and to use a mounting kit (eg. BSQ mounting kit) which will reinforce the suspension subframe where the swaybar mounts. Several people have installed the Type-R rear swaybar according to the instructions on the Hybrid Honda website and they have also upgraded to stiffer springs and shocks and they still experienced subframe tearout. So what I'm trying to say is that the stiffer springs and shocks may elevate some of the stress and strain on the mounting points, but it will not prevent subframe tearout.


Can you give more details on this situation? What car was the Type-R rear swaybar mounted on? I have heard of people with the 6G Civics that have experienced subframe tearout with the Type-R rear swaybar, even though the swaybar ways mounted directly to the subframe. The subframe is different on the 6G Civic than on the 5G Civic and 3G Integras.

 

Just put one of these on and you won't have those problems,,,,,the comptech bar provides a mount for the bar, and a lower support brace all in one. http://www.diabloautosports.com/prod...oducts_id=1351 CIVIC,,,,,,,,,also for integra: http://www.diabloautosports.com/prod...oducts_id=1349

 

>>>I have heard of people with the 6G Civics that have experienced subframe tearout with the Type-R rear swaybar, even though the swaybar ways mounted directly to the subframe. The subframe is different on the 6G Civic than on the 5G Civic and 3G Integras.<<<

Yep, it was for a 6G come to think of it. Sorry about that. He even sent pics, but I've long since deleted them. He ended up welding a reinforced backing plate to the repaired subframe. This type of fix has some pretty bad implications for a lot of organized racing classes which may see this as an illegal mod.

 

I installed the ITR swaybar on my teg which had 400lb linear springs on the back with koni yellows a la Hybrids method and had the bar tear out on me within 1 month. I then installed it using BSQs method and it never gave me another problem.

 

I made the Integra Comptech bar work on my 5th Gen Si and I have nothing but good things to say about it.
I thought the 22mm would be too
much, but it has turned out to be one of the biggest changes (handlingwise) I have made to my car.
Second biggest change is the 6th Gen A'pexi
N1 WS adjustable coilovers.

 

>>Relatively soft springs and shocks can contribute to the problem as well. Higher spring rates and stiffer shocks reduce the tendency for body roll in the first place, thus reducing the amount of "work" the sway bar has to do.

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Not quite true. <<<


Ummm, no. It's exactly true. Your comptech backing plates may well be what have kept your ITR bar from tearing out. Soft springs and shocks WILL induce more stress on a sway bar because there is more roll tendancy to counter. With 400f/600r springs and adjustable struts, how much "work" will a sway bar have to do relative to a car with 200lb (about stock) springs and stock struts? That was my point.

 

Wow, im lucky i didnt put the ITR sway bar in then, just a GS-R sway bar...


[Modified by Hybrid Hatch 128, 7:30 PM 7/13/2001]

 

I have a GSR with a skunk bar that just started to tear out the subframe. I took it to work and fixed the cracks, and from what I can tell it tears out because of the stock mounts flexing. So I reproduced the swaybar mounts in 1/4 inch material instead of the factory 1/8 inch and used longer bolts. I just got back from a full day at Willow Springs, and so far no more tear out.

 

yes mr. jimmy u lucky u idnt put dat swap bar on... go look at one of those BSQ kits or something and i think u can put it on... and im pretty sure u know who this is fool

 

hahaha, yes mr. warren... i kno who u are... so how u like ue LS/VTEC???

 

BSQ:

I followed your links and got saw the pictures on your site. Are thoss ITR D-brackets and bushing that you used??

 

I just did my ITR sway install this past weekend. I used the Beaks kit, which I would highly recommend over BSQ's kit. Sorry BSQ I actually looked into your kit, but it isnt the best looking kit doesnt seem to offer a piece of mind, but it is cheaper as the Beaks goes for around $65 . The Beaks kit consists of not 2 but four, CNC aircraft quality adapters with the backplate being threaded so that is sandwiches the subframe metal. One for each side of the subframe. I can post a couple of pics if you want them. I havent had any problems yet, and I havent heard of any problems with anyone else using the Beaks kit. If you have any further questions, then please IM me.

 

Yes, I used the Type-R D-bracket and swaybar bushing. The Type-R bushing is 5x stiffer than the stock rubber bushings, which is compareable to polyurethane and they do not require luberication to prevent squeaking.

 

That comptech thing is purty. Can that thing be bought seperately and used on an ITR bar?

Hey BSQ, any idea how the Mugen bushings compare to the ITR bushings? I like the idea of poly bushings, cept the whole idea of lubing it up more than once. So hard rubber seems more practical.


[Modified by Ricehornet, 4:07 PM 7/24/2001]

 

Damn wussy-*** H&R Sports! The rates for the rear are only 186lbs (Gen 2 teg). I better not have problems with the Progress bar. It does mount towards the frame though, and it uses the stock mounting points, unlike the ITR bar.

I wish I find that perfect spring/sleeve for the Tokico HPs.

 

The Mugen bushings should be compareable to the Type-R bushing as far as stiffness, but they are more expensive (as if I needed to tell you that). I have the same feeling about the poly bushings .

 

"I just did my ITR sway install this past weekend. I used the Beaks kit, which I would highly recommend over BSQ's kit."

I used the Beaks kit as well and it works perfectly. It's well worth the price. I've had the bar on there since April and haven't had any problems.

Mike

 

BSQ:

Today i picked up my ITR D-brackets from the dealer and when i got home, i noticed that the holes on the cross-member are not aligned with the D-brackets even if enlarged the ABS hole. If i mounted the sway bar this way, the D brackets would actually be on a little slant.....does your have this situation??

 

What car are you mounting the Type-R on?

The top and bottom mounting holes are not exactly perpenticular to each other, but they are only off by 1/8". Therefore, there will be a very slight slant, but this will not hurt anything. But the D bracket will line up properly with the top an bottom mounting hole. Look at the Type-R rear swaybar installation pictures on my website for reference. Let me know if you are still having trouble.

 

bsq said subframe too many times, i dunno wheather that was helpfull or sarcastic but it sounded like something I would of told a dumbass customer on the phone about computers lol