Seriously. Somebody help me out here.

I know NASSCAR does it for "The Winston" to make things "more exciting" for the fans. And in typical NASCAR fashion to cause more wrecks (which many NASCAR fans like. If you don't buy this theory listen closely to the audio of a broadcast when there is a big wreck in front of the stands).

So for a little amatuer series like the Honda Challenge, why would you want to do this?

To make it more fun for the drivers? I'm a driver, and I know I wouldn't feel like piling the fast cars behind the slow ones into turn 1 would be much fun at all.

More passing? Is a good old fashioned race not enough?

More entertainment for the *fans* that didn't go watch the bikini contest?

To cause a few exciting wrecks? (Surely not in a series that frowns on M2M contact???)

I wasn't there, and just found out about this.
So... Why? What was the rationale? I'd honestly like to know what this was supposed to accomplish.
Help a brotha out.

 

It definately made the race *very* exciting to watch, from my point of view.

The whole field wasnt inverted, just positions within each class - inverting the whole field would have been kind of dumb, considering how much faster the H1 cars are over H5 cars.

 

Since I wasn't at Beaver Run, I'd like to know about this as well. Just what was this all about? Sounds EXTREMELY dangerous to me.

 

so whats to stop someone from sandbagging the qualifying?

but i could see how it makes it more exciting to bunch up the field earlier on.

 

Heck, we did that before w/ Spec Rx7 and that was one of the most fun weekends i have had racing....except for the times my car broke before qualifying and i had to start from the back.....at cmp this year i went from last to i think 16th out of 40 or so cars.......to me the best part of racing is passing....otherwise it might as well be a HPDE.....(although last year I was the guy bucking for HC to do exactly this to make it more exciting to watch while Jack was running away from everyone ;-)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so whats to stop someone from sandbagging the qualifying?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The drivers werent told about this until after qualifying

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The drivers werent told about this until after qualifying</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even better. Let's keep the drivers unaware of how the weekend is going to go, and give them last-minute surprises. Excellent.

 

Ahhh... But I was told the original intent was to invert the entire field but some of the drivers objected.
Is this not true?

Either way, I still don't think thats such a good idea for a series that attempts to avoid contact. Seems like any inversion at all kind of promotes contact.

Exciting to watch? Maybe.
But I don't remember that being in the ECHC charter.

 

There was some complaint about the entire field... so just inverted by class.

While exciting to watch wasnt in the ECHC charter, it was hizzy-fest - although most were glued to the bikini contest anyways

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">While exciting to watch wasnt in the ECHC charter, it was hizzy-fest </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks. Question answered.

 

Some of the drivers including myself did object to the inverted field. We all thought it to be a bit dangerous with so many rookies racing and some drivers with out any driving experience at Beaverun. So we took a vote and concluded that to give a good show we would seperate all classes H1-H5 and invert only within class. This seemed to work well and give a little more excitement to the crowd.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The drivers werent told about this until after qualifying</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL

Yes this inverted qualifying in class is quite funny (although putting on some new tires/brakes on the car and driving as hard as you can for a session by taking more chances only to find out all your effort may get you last starting position might *not* be as amusing for all involved ).

If results don't matter, then why not just call this session just another practice? Or actually results do matter. But just don't try your hardest.

 

I believe this was Cobetto's call, so you may want to ask him directly.
(This thread has the potential for getting ugly)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dz-racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some of the drivers including myself did object to the inverted field. We all thought it to be a bit dangerous with so many rookies racing and some drivers with out any driving experience at Beaverun. So we took a vote and concluded that to give a good show we would seperate all classes H1-H5 and invert only within class. This seemed to work well and give a little more excitement to the crowd.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Does that really work for this goal? Could you not end up with a situation where an H3 car outqualified several H1/H2 cars but because of this ended up starting at the tail end of the H3 field? Seems like it would work in principle (and if it did in fact, I guess that's why you guys thought it was safer) but seems like it could basically have all the same elements of inverting the whole field just on a more limited basis. Don't get me wrong, very glad you guys put on a good show without incident - I am sure it was fun to watch guys rip through a couple of spots on the start.

 

Ok, obviously a lot of you guys wern't there, so don't understand.. The inital goal was to INVERT the ENTIRE field.. After a couple of us talked to Cobetto, about the potental dangeriousness (is that a word?) of this, we decided to take a vote.. 90% of the drivers voted not to invert the whole field, but as a compromise, 90% agreed to invert by class... I qualified 3rd overall, but wound up starting 12th, behind all the H1 and H2 cars.. I wasn't dissappointed, hell, I voted to do it! It was a LONG sprint race, which we all knew as well (35mins) which would provide plenty of time for "catching" the slower qualifiyers..

I worked the hardest, and had one of the BEST races ever until my car broke.. I had a horrible start, and was around 16th place by T1, I was 2nd overall when my car broke, and had SEVERAL hard laps fighting w/ Franza.. Would that of happened if we didn't invert, I doubt it.. Warren and I would have probably "checked out".. Having done that before from time to time, its kinda boring..

Anyways, If Bookler could elaborate on the "coin toss" that pretty much many of us wanted to implement after that race.. If you raced the race, you would have been very happy w/ the decission..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, obviously a lot of you guys wern't there, so don't understand.. The inital goal was to INVERT the ENTIRE field.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct and I am not judging - just thought the end effect (thinking of LMS grid last year) could effectively invert the entire field minus a car or two.

 

Gotcha. I definitely was not there and as long as it made for a fun race, then

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The inital goal was to INVERT the ENTIRE field.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but as a compromise, 90% agreed to invert by class...</TD></TR></TABLE>

But I am also just curious as to why it was initiated in the first place and why there was a need for a compromise. But I believe RJ or somebody mentioned it already - for a better show. Is this the official reason why? I don’t require an answer of course as I did not race there, but in the future if this were to happen to me I would like to know why my qualifying times would be thrown out.

From my point of view (not a current h-c racer) and what I've been reading/hearing, I always had the impression that H-C already had a great enough show. And for what it's worth my humble opinion is that the positive aspects of what such an action brings does not outweigh the negative aspects. If mixing up the fields for a better show is such an important goal, maybe an approach such as the touring guys in europe have used could be used. Draw out the first five or ten starting positions out of a hat. This way it would be "fair" and you do not have to use up your best tires/brake and/or take unnecessary chances during qualifying for no reason at all. And this would also provide for a better show.

But whatever works!

 

no, i wasnt there. so i guess any opinion i have on the matter is worthless. however, nor did i give a judgement. but at least now i can say i would not be a happy racer in the future if my qual times were thrown out and told of it right after as a surprise during the weekend, even tho id probably benefit from this type of thing since im not a lead pack racer. i understand why they (stewards) wanted to do it, for the fans and show. but it just doesnt seem the right thing to do, and the right way to have done it.

 

Well, now that I have a clear picture I can say that no, I wasn't there and I'm truly glad I wasn't.
I disagree with this on so many levels I likely would have trailered the car and gone home.

 

It also put everyone you are racing, in your class, right there together.. This was the first race I was ever in, that 3 H2 cars were 3 wide coming out of corner, that bumpdrafting and some piks allowed the 3rd place car to have the first spot..

I was happy to throw away my qualifying time, to ensure a better race..

Also, havn't you ever have a bad qualifying session, only to find yourself no where in contention for the race? W/ everyone being in the same class starting together, everyone had a good chance of wining.. Also, I hate to win knowing someone that is just as fast in back of the pack, because he caught a car mid corner on a hot lap in qualifying, or something to that degree.

I guess I really don't understand fuss.. We were all racers there, and we most voted to do it..

 

dude, thats called racing. maybe youd like to be in HPDE??

 

Dude, its called open your eyes and try something different. How do you know you don't like it until you try it.

Don't talk to me like an immature child.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude, thats called racing. maybe youd like to be in HPDE??</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now that was just uncalled for.

Perhaps you'd like to see some of Corey's in-car video?

 

I think Tyson may have been referring to qualifying and "checking out" as a big part of racing.

As Alex said, if qualifying isn't going to set the grid, then just don't qualify. Draw names or play "Rock, Paper, Scissors." But certainly don't make me try really hard and run my good tires to get a pole and then put me in the back. That'd really **** me off.

If you don't think its any fun to "check out." Then slow down and let folks catch you. Or better yet go compete where there are faster drivers and "checking out" won't be an issue.

 

If 90% of the racers voted for it, and had a good time, and everyone was safe....

Whats so wrong about it?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think Tyson may have been referring to qualifying and "checking out" as a big part of racing.

As Alex said, if qualifying isn't going to set the grid, then just don't qualify. Draw names or play "Rock, Paper, Scissors." But certainly don't make me try really hard and run my good tires to get a pole and then put me in the back. That'd really **** me off.

If you don't think its any fun to "check out." Then slow down and let folks catch you. Or better yet go compete where there are faster drivers and "checking out" won't be an issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>