A gsr block with t-top sleeves bored out to 84mm and a knifedged crank,with fully built head dynos 205 hp and 148 tq to the wheels.After 1500 km car goes to the track,and after 15 full passes,motor starts knocking.Pull it apart,and #5 main lost presure and burned #4 rod bearing and rod.
Surprise :Align bore is off the block and crank are twisted!!
Anyone scene this before?
Re-align bore and replace the crank will the block twist again?
The car in question was running Clutchmaster stage 4 (violent shifting,slicks and 6000 rpm launches)
Please I need info,was there a problem with the sleeves,did it weeken the block.
Any info would be helpfull.
Mabey Jeff from IB could shed some light?????
We have run stock GSRs with 100 shot of juice,and never any problems with a block.
The block was checked after sleeves were put in ,and all was straight.
Knifedged crank,sleeved block,or just bad luck.
PS motor was raced all last season with less HP and all went well.
INFO-INFO-INFO

 

Sleeve's are bad. If you have to sleeve a block, junk it. New blocks aren't that much money.

The sleeve's can move around and weaken the block if not installed right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snowseeker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. If you have to sleeve a block, junk it. New blocks aren't that much money.

The sleeve's can move around and weaken the block if not installed right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What kind of reasoning is this? You can't go big bore on stock sleeves

 

Who did the knifedge job? I would think if oyu lost any pressure anywhere, it would start on #1 mains and rods, nearest to oil pump

 

Actually when you lose oil pressure, it should show up farther down the line like toward the back. Who did the sleeve install? Some sleeves installs take out more block material than others so that could be a possibility.
Do not run a knife edged crank, do champhor the oil holes, do run a harmonic balancer (not a billet pulley), balance the crank, replace the oil pump and align bore the block. If it twists again, I guess you have your answer. Good luck

 

Thats probably a leitner block from canada they usually do excellent work

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LaminaR X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and #5 main lost presure and burned #4 rod bearing and rod.
Surprise :Align bore is off the block and crank are twisted!!
Anyone scene this before?
Re-align bore and replace the crank will the block twist again?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

what clearance you running ? both times ...

dont knife edge, keep stock crank untouched and don;t even balance as they are very accurate from the factory. also are your oil pumps getting hurt on both times ?

greg

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snowseeker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sleeve's are bad. If you have to sleeve a block, junk it. New blocks aren't that much money. The sleeve's can move around and weaken the block if not installed right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you drunk?

 

Why no knife edging? I do a lot of chevy blocks and we knife them but why none on an import?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FULLTHROTTLE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why no knife edging? I do a lot of chevy blocks and we knife them but why none on an import? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The factory crank on honda doesnt need anything doen to it. IT works great in stock form theres no need for all the knifeedging etc. The cranks come allmost 100% balanced they are off probably .0003 - .0008 with there factory harmonic balancer.

I took a part a motor with a knife edged crank a custoerm using acl bearing and you can actually see the wear due to the crank.

 

Do you know if the machine shop align honed the main caps after installing the sleeves?

 

This is a simple problem, with an easy solution, unless the damage is too great already. Here you go in steps...

Take out block...
Take apart block...
send block with caps, torqued to spec to machine shop to check line bore...
Send crank to machine shop too, to check for warpage/problems.
solve that problem..
THEN
Get all your bearings...put crank in block, put all 10 main bearings in to proper clearance. Spin crank...it shoudl spin pretty good with a wrench on the crank bolt...
If the crank does not spin good, you have a line bore/warped crank problem. But this should be solved if a good machine shop checks it all out like in the first few steps...

Put rods in, spin crank with wrench, pistons should move up and down without too much effort...if there is too much effort, your bearing clearance is wrong.

Do not worry, these are common problems, with simple solutions.

Good luck,

Jeff

 

Maybe a simple solution for the experienced

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ImportReview &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is a simple problem, with an easy solution, unless the damage is too great already. Here you go in steps...

Take out block...
Take apart block...
send block with caps, torqued to spec to machine shop to check line bore...
Send crank to machine shop too, to check for warpage/problems.
solve that problem..
THEN
Get all your bearings...put crank in block, put all 10 main bearings in to proper clearance. Spin crank...it shoudl spin pretty good with a wrench on the crank bolt...
If the crank does not spin good, you have a line bore/warped crank problem. But this should be solved if a good machine shop checks it all out like in the first few steps...

Put rods in, spin crank with wrench, pistons should move up and down without too much effort...if there is too much effort, your bearing clearance is wrong.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah! What he said!

 

I am aware that it can be align-bored,and replace crank,my concern is why did the crank and block twist?????????????

 

Cutting too much material in the wrong spots of the block to install the sleeves and knife edging the crank caused your problem.
Knife edging is an old v-8 trick to cut restriction when spinning thru the oil in the pan. Honda has a windage tray so knife edging just weakens the crank.

 

very smart...i'm surprised u knew that

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cutting too much material in the wrong spots of the block to install the sleeves and knife edging the crank caused your problem.
Knife edging is an old v-8 trick to cut restriction when spinning thru the oil in the pan. Honda has a windage tray so knife edging just weakens the crank.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is also what I believe too. A modified crank is only as a good as the person doing the work. Honda designed a great piece from the factory so why mess with it.

 

If you reduce the mass of the crankshaft too much, it'll pulse forward and rebound harder because it doesn't have the inertia it needs. The more powerful the firing pulses, the more mass you need in the crank. The counterweights on Honda cranks are already (minimal) in the cross section they present to the oil raining down on them in the crankcase, so making the counterweights thinner doesn't gain anything, except more harmonics in the bottom end....killing bearings and oil pumps sooner.
If you want to remove mass, do it at a greater radius from the centerline of the crank...like the flywheel. You also need to use either a stock, ATI, or the new Fluidamper to keep everything safe on the timing-end of the crank. Going light, and or with a solid hub-style pulley will also cause the crank to "rattle" in the mains.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Woofer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you reduce the mass of the crankshaft too much, it'll pulse forward and rebound harder because it doesn't have the inertia it needs. The more powerful the firing pulses, the more mass you need in the crank. The counterweights on Honda cranks are already (minimal) in the cross section they present to the oil raining down on them in the crankcase, so making the counterweights thinner doesn't gain anything, except more harmonics in the bottom end....killing bearings and oil pumps sooner.
If you want to remove mass, do it at a greater radius from the centerline of the crank...like the flywheel. You also need to use either a stock, ATI, or the new Fluidamper to keep everything safe on the timing-end of the crank. Going light, and or with a solid hub-style pulley will also cause the crank to "rattle" in the mains.</TD></TR></TABLE>

whatever

better get back to your supercharger

 

genius..you are not

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by genius &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

whatever

better get back to your supercharger </TD></TR></TABLE>

That was kinda uncalled for. Respect your elders...heh

Suprdave

 

jeff whats up with ur avatar ... damn mods

 

Was not me but that is what happens when you **** off the wrong mod.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by genius &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

whatever

better get back to your supercharger </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ya damn him! What odasity. He's helping and giving suggestions that are going to help the person in need as well as informing others.

Way to contribute.

Have some respect.