I'm not very good at this car stuff... I was wondering if someone could go through the advantages and disadvantages of all three? Thanks for any info you guys could give me.

 

ehh, this could be a book long post if we took it there, but here it is simply put. The only advantage of FWD is that it is easier to control in wet conditions for amater (sp) drivers. RWD is better because wieght transfer puts the power to the drive weel. Also, RWD doesn't have the understeer of FWD, but tends to have oversteer (fun at times).
AWD, combines both, giving good hole shot, neutral handling, and good wet traction control.
This is only scratching the surface, but I hope it helps. -C

 

AWD bad b/c more parts to break (since it has both rwd and fwd parts), good handeler, great launches, a little more weight? No burn outs for you. Donuts, if you havent seen an AWD doing donuts, you are missing out.
FWD basically easier to drive safely, but harder to drive performance wise
RWD physics of a launch/acceleration gives it the load transfer equaling more grip. Having drive wheels and wheels incharge of directions being different is good. Donuts are easy to do if you were so inclined.

there is more to it than that i believe.

Also, i heard FWD is cheaper to make?


[Modified by Ricehornet, 2:47 AM 7/8/2001]

 

Thanks guys. I appreciate the quick replies. Any additional information would be great. I like to learn as much as I can.

 

FWD is cheaper to make. It is also easier. Generally, a FWD platform is not a good starting point for a performance application. (This is why the ITR is so famous, it used a FWD platform, and does damn good) A FWD platform will lean towards understeer at the limit. pushing on the gas doesn't help this much as it only induces oversteer more. However, when it comes to getting out of trouble, a FWD car is easier, and more forgiving. This is due to the fact that newbies want to hit the brakes when the car starts getting out of control. In a FWD car, this puts weight on the driving wheels, and gives them more grip.

RWD is considered the "ultimate" platform to start with. Is is more expensive to make (hence why not many are made today) and less forgiving than FWD. However, a RWD is much better for handling, and launching. when it comes to handling, a RWD can be made to understeer, or oversteer, depending on how much power is available, and how it is applied. (Lots of power = spining rear tires = oversteer. Lots of power, but not enough to spin the rear wheels = wieght transfer to the back of the car = understeer) The drag launch is a no brainer. Again, the concept of wieght transfer comes into play. When the car launches, the wieght is shifted to the back. IN a FWD, this means easier launches are a must. In a RWD, the harder the launch, the better. (assuming tire grip isn't a problem)

AWD is a little different. It can induce oversteer (depending on power distribution between front and rear tires) or it can induce understeer. (again, depending on power distibution) AWD's are the easiest to go fast in when it comes to handling. The car is said to "pull itself where you tell it to". When it coes to drag racing, the AWD gets you off the line MUCH quicker due to 4 tires grabing instead of 2. (this is negliable when comparing 4 street tires to 2 RWD slicks. Eventually, the power reached becomes so much the front wheels lift off the ground, making AWD nothing more than a power robbing, dead wieght. (this is real fast though )
AWD is as easy, if not easier for novice.

I hope this helps some. I was in a typeing mood

 

Thanks man! That helps a grip. Really useful information indeed.

 

My Jeep can do perfect 360's in place with full time 4 wheel drive

 

Turbo, doesn't weight transferring to the rear cause oversteer? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the reason for the ITR's tail-happiness, and the reason why mid-engine cars rotate so easily? Lots of weight over the front wheels causes them to lose their traction first, causing the dreaded "push" (understeer).

Also, I have heard that FWD cars are better for drag racing, due to the weight of the engine, tranny, etc, being over the drive wheels. This is why RWD pickup trucks have limited traction - no weight over the drive wheels.

FWD, in addition to being easier to manufacture and cheaper, allows for less driveline loss in terms of wheel hp. Therefore, if you dropped an ITR engine into, say, an S2000, it would make less hp at the wheels than our FWD Rs.

 

Play GT2. Really, you aren't really getting a feel for why all the above is true unless you play with some monster RWD AWD and FWD cars at the limit.

 

Hmm. I think I will Infact, that's what I'm going to do right now

 

Tar-Sac has a good point there. I can honestly say that I have saved myself from at least 4 serious crashes because of lessons I learned in that game.

Ross - who can't wait for GT3

 

Ay, when did I get the nickname Tar-Sac???

 

Haha yeah, GT2 is tight. I played a lil bit last nite. I definitely spin out way too much in RWD cars. But my modded S2K handles quite well. ^_^ My Integra R is just da **** tho. And of course, my WRX STi is unstoppable. Unless someone bust out that Pike's Peak ****. Then it's over. xP

 

ICIC... The reason why I asked is cause in a couple of months I'm going to get a new car... I've had a lot in mind... A used Integra R, S2000, IS300 (Manual coming out in 2 months), 325CI (Not really, all my friends have one), and a far WRX (headlights sooo ugly). Kinda trying to balance performance with being practical, if such a thing exists.

 

In response to Tar-sac wondering where that gross misappropriation of his sn came from, it was my old college roommate. He added "sac" and "******" to everything - "Burger King" became "Burger ******" and so on.

Steve, why is the opposite true? For example, when cars get stuck, a FWD car is easier to get rolling than a RWD car or truck. This is why people used to add cinderblocks, wood, etc to their car trunks during the winter way back when - so it would add weight over the drive wheels, helping traction. Does this logic not apply in drag racing situations? This is not a flame or anything, I'm just curious. Thanks man.

 

This is a case of static weight vs. transferring weight and what kind of ultimate grip you have.

A FWD is good in the mud because: all the static weight is over the drive wheels. Trying to get the car moving at 1mph, this helps. The weight doesn't transfer and the front wheels are digging deep. And slow.

A FWD car is bad at drag race because a sudden pop of 170whp causes the car to lurch. The front wheels practically come off the ground. On dry pavement, IN COMPARISON TO a RWD car, you have much less traction. But of course you have much MORE traction than any car in the mud.

A RWD truck is bad in the mud because there is no weight on the rear. You cant dig in and get moving to 1mph, which is what you need.

A RWD car is good at the drag because the sudded pop of power tilts the car back, sometimes putting 90-100% of the weight on the rear. On a dry surface where there is plenty of traction, this is gonna help.

 

Byuntae,

I guess it depends on what you want the car for. From the nature of this post, I gather you are not the world's biggest gearhead (no offense meant). If you are serious about racing (that involves turning), the R might be a good choice. However if you just want a car that goes fast, looks cool, carries a lot of stuff/people, then maybe the BMW or IS300 with manual might be the right car for you. The WRX and the Type R are more for the dedicated racer and require an excellent driver to truly enjoy them. An S2000 is not all that much faster than the other cars you mention, and even less practical. You get 2 seats, RWD (a bitch in bad weather), no torque, and a small trunk. In my opinion, an S2000 is a great weekend car, nothing more. If you need more advice, feel free to ask. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks Tar-Sac. Also thanks for the pics of all those chicks at HIN - brightened up my day. That was you that posted them right??

 

Yeah man, it does help. I'll admit to you right now, I'm by no means the greatest driver at all. I'm just average. Thanks for the advice.

 

Just curious....... Is this from people that have told you this, or experience? I kind of like playing in the snow in my 2 seat RWD car.

Anyhow, about the wieght being over the tires, therefor FWD being better at drag strips. I think it was described pretty well above. When you take off, all that weight shifts to the back, reguardless of where it started at, and regaurdless of FWD, or RWD. The difference being in the FWD platform, the wieght gets shifted off of the driving wheels, and in a RWD, the wieght is shifted to the driving wheels.

Nope. When weight transfers to a set of wheels, the extra weight gives them more grip and takes away grip from the opposite set of wheels. Lessgrip means skidding at the ragged limit.

Your right, I did mean more understeer when pushing on the gas around a turn in a FWD vehicle. Hey, it was a long post for me! Give me some leaway

 

Haha, yup. I post those every chance I get.

One last thing to remember about under/oversteer. There are two kinds of understeer and oversteer.

1. The kind that you get due to the suspension set up of the vehicle and can be induced by lifting off the gas, turning too sharp, etc.

2. The kind that you get by mashing the throttle and breaking traction at the drive wheels (power understeer or oversteer)

As stated before, almost all cars built today, RWD AWD or AWD have zero oversteer under case 1. You can lift off the gas hard till your heart is content and you will not lose grip at the rear. Some of the exceptions are of course the ITR and maybe the S2000 (sorry never drove one). Also, as stated, most cars you can still tweak to get lift-off oversteer (or more) with some suspension mods.

Power oversteer and understeer is more familiar to us GT players. Its when you are driving a 900hp 2000lb Supra and you hold down the gas button You are going to spin. Power oversteer is impossible on FWD cars. That's right, impossible. i.e. you cannot induce a sharper cornering angle than your current angle just by giving more throttle.

Anyways, anytime your front wheels are slipping more than your rear = understeer.

When your rear slip more than your front = oversteer...

The GT/GT manuals do a good job of explaning as well, but they miss the above distinction about whether the throttle is involved...

 

Crud. WAsn't there something in there about weight transfer to the back, oversteer, and mid-engine cars? Ah crap, oh well, I'll just try to explain that one too since I thought I saw some mention of them.

Mid engine cars are weird. I haven't personally driven one, but I did read a good deal about them since I was *this close* to buying an MR2T.

Mid engine cars normally have about 40% or their static wieght up on the front wheels, and 60% of their static wieght on the rear wheels. This is about the opposite of most FWD cars. (not all, just most) What it means is dramatically different handling that any front engine setup. Cars, while turning tend to rotate with the engine as their axis. This is true for front engine cars as well. The difference with the Rear engine is that mass is in the back. Around turns, the front feels different, as does the back. It is described as a feeling of drifting all the time. No deffinate understeer or oversteer most of the time. As imaginable, it is also ALOT harder to control than FWD, RWD(front engine) and AWD (not even going into midengine AWD )

To complicate things more, that massive amount of weight in the back can cause "snap oversteer". (This is when the weight shifts so fast it over powers the grip of the tires, causing traction lose in the rear, and causing the front and rear to want to trade places) This happens mostly only when you lift or brake in the middle of a turn. If you looks at alot of Mr2s, you will notice they tend to use wider tires in the back than front to try to make the car safer.

Although, Mid engine is the BEST for drag racing. As mentioned, the weight is over the drive wheels like a FWD car. However, when you take off, that wieght is shifted EVEN MORE to the drive wheels. An Mr2 can get 60 Ft ties of 1.8 seconds on street tires. (isn't this a "WHOA!!" time on FWD with slicks? Just curious) They also get the same amount of driveline loss as FWD since mid engine is basically a FWD setup in the back.


Alright, did I make any sense on that one?

 

I dunno, my miata trys to oversteer at the jagged edge. (this could be due to the chassis stiffening rollbar in the back though)

The ITR leans towards oversteer?!? Didn't know that. Is it due to only having the braces up front and not in the back also like in japan? Again, just curious

 

OK I'll start with Steve. I guess you are right about the R. I was just trying to make the point that the Type R is not for amateurs. A lot of people expect it to be something it's not and end up crashing, pr just being disappointed. And by HIDS do you mean the headlights? sorry.

Turbo - it is from experience. I hate driving the Rustang in the snow if I am actually trying to get somewhere (Lucky for me it's my mom's! ). My dad also used to have a Crown Vic. You are right, it's kind of fun to play around with RWD cars in shitty conditions, but when you are trying to get somewhere drama-free, FWD or AWD would be my choice. Byuntae said he wanted practicality too so I took that into account when I made the RWD comment.

Byuntae - anytime. Usually I like to torch newbies, but they are the ones coming in and asking "Yo whassup bitches I am a straight-up thug and I'm 'bout to get a Type R for my 16th b-day, my dad gives me anything I want, so what mods should I make to it so it looks hot for the ladies yo?" You seem pretty willing to listen and honest about your own abilities. A lot of people buy the R and then are disappointed once they get beat by a Camaro, and then want to go mod-crazy to make up for the lack of displacement, even though they know jack **** about their cars. If I were in your shoes and had the kind of dough available to buy an IS300, I would instead look around for used M3s. The old ones (240hp) can still humble most anything out there and will do 0-60 in under 6 seconds. A few small mods and you'll be ripping us ITR drivers new ********. Good luck.

 

Turbo,

I was just going to ask about MR cars and drag racing. How would an RR (Porsche 911) fare? I have never driven an MR car and would very much like to. I am planning on going to the Toyota dealership sometime this summer and taking an MR2 Spyder out for a spin. I will def. post something about that.

I guess you are not an ITR owner Yes it is actually amazing how much oversteer you can get, even in everyday situations. The best places to do it are on highway on-and off-ramps. Gather a bit too much speed while turning the wheel the required amount, then lift, and you can feel the rear slide out. Other cars can do this too if pushed hard enough - I have done it in my Dad's Taurus as well, though I wouldnt recommend that to anyone here.