V1 vs Passport 8500
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,573
Likes: 1
From: Springfield, IL, USA
Here are a couple good radar detector tests:
http://www.caranddriver.com/ar...ber=1
http://www.speedzones.com/test2002new/test2002.htm
And a test on false alerts:
http://www.speedzones.com/falsealerts/false.htm
Personally, I believe that the V1 is better because of the directional arrows (you know where the reading is coming from), and because of the resale value on ebay (old models routinely sell for $300+ on ebay, current models sell for $380+).
If money is an issue, the best "lower priced" radar detector is the Bel 985, which you can pick up for $225 from abes of maine http://www.abesofmaine.com/vie...el985
Also, note that the V1 and Bel 985 come with visor mounts (in addition to suction cups), on the 8500 a visor mount is an extra $10 or so.
http://www.caranddriver.com/ar...ber=1
http://www.speedzones.com/test2002new/test2002.htm
And a test on false alerts:
http://www.speedzones.com/falsealerts/false.htm
Personally, I believe that the V1 is better because of the directional arrows (you know where the reading is coming from), and because of the resale value on ebay (old models routinely sell for $300+ on ebay, current models sell for $380+).
If money is an issue, the best "lower priced" radar detector is the Bel 985, which you can pick up for $225 from abes of maine http://www.abesofmaine.com/vie...el985
Also, note that the V1 and Bel 985 come with visor mounts (in addition to suction cups), on the 8500 a visor mount is an extra $10 or so.
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: plus 1000 posts
Re: (Heat)
try http://www.radartest.com and also check out http://www.escort.com .....not only did the Passport get a 99% by http://www.radartest.com but they also got a 99% by motor trend
Joined: Jan 2003
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,573
Likes: 1
From: Springfield, IL, USA
http://www.radartest.com is a joke, Peterson and Valentine have a lot of bad blood between them.
Both even have comments about the other on their respective websites:
http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleID=10
http://www.valentineone.com/lab/V1Hater.asp
As for the actual radartest.com test, here is a breakdown of different way that Peterson goes out of his way to gig Valentine (written by hankd of a different site):
that site is full of incorrect information. Let me breakdown some of the problems from his test starting with the "Product Specs and Features" chart:
1. V1 doesn't get credit for being fully programmable when in fact, it is: http://www.valentineone.com/lab/MikesLabRpt3.asp
2. V1 gets no credit for having the capability to defeat radar bands (see #1)
3. V1 gets no credit for "Digital Signal Strength" With no description of what this means, I'll assume it means a "hit" strength indicator. The V1's strength indicator is very clear and easy to understand.
4. V1 gets no credit for "Multi-step Dim / Dark Mode" even though it does this automatically!! Peterson even says so in his summary, "A photoelectric cell automatically dims the displays but there's no provision to darken them or tailor the brightness to personal preference." So I can't manually dim it myself...why would I want to if it does it automatically?
Update: Update: 2003 detector review shows "1-step auto-dimming" as a feature:
http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=1027
How can it be 1-step? That would mean it only has ONE level of brightness...
5. The categories in his "specs" table are selected to the Passport and Bel's advantage. He doesn't have a category for the following, all of which would ONLY be featured on the V1:
*Metal case instead of plastic
*Directional arrows to point out the hits (this is THE feature that completely separates the V1 from all other detectors, yet Peterson tries to downplay the functionality and effectivity in the text of his summary)
*Front and rear radar and laser antennas
*Bogey counter
Update: 2003 detector review shows "Bogey Counter (tracks up to 9 simultaneous threats)" & "Directional Arrows (indicates direction of the threat)" as features. Why weren't they included in the original test???
6. Other categories such as: Text Display, Voice Alert, and Tutorial Mode are features that are useless and/or annoying or distracting to the user (IMO). I don't want to be reading my detector while driving down the road and I surely don't want it talking to me.
Now on to the text of his "radartest" summary":
1. "the Valentine uses a single rotary switch with concentric ring to control on/off, audio level, mute level and two "logic" modes that filter X band. We feel that's about four functions too many. So do the competition, all of whom allocate these key functions to separate switches for faster, simpler operation."
As a mechanical engineer, we're taught to SIMPLIFY by combining many functions into as few components as possible. That's exactly what the V1 does. Operation of the V1 couldn't be any simpler, yet Peterson tries to make the opposite seem true.
2. "One unique V1 feature is the Radar Locator, claimed to pinpoint the direction of incoming radar beams. Under optimal conditions--detector mounted high on the windshield with a panoramic view and with a relatively strong signal on a steady bearing--we found the directional arrows generally accurate"
Words like "claimed" "optimal" and "generally" are there to downplay this feature. The arrows work exactly as claimed even if the surroundings aren't "optimal" as Peterson says...
3. "But we quickly learned to distrust the bogey counter's truthfulness. For example, in Bucolic Campo, CO...."
The 3 threats in that story could've been caused by MANY things. It sounds like Mr Peterson wasn't running in Advanced Logic mode if he's picking up 3 junk X-band hits at once, of course, he doesn't even mention that. He just tells the story as if the hits are due to something that the V1 lacks, instead of something he lacks.
4. "In larger metropolitan areas we noticed this Chicken Little behavior even more, often being bombarded by alerts for eight or nine simultaneous threats while sitting gridlocked in traffic, a major nuisance. Truth is, radar to the side poses no threat at all and radar from behind is scarcely worthy of more attention"
Again, he's not running AL mode!!! The V1 only tracks up to 8 hits, so I'm not sure how he saw 9!! (**COUGH** LIAR **COUGH**) I've yet to see 8 hits on the bogey counter in 2.5 years of owning mine. As far as radar to the side, he's 100% correct. You can't get clocked directly from the side. However, the side arrows do a couple things for you. When you pass a threat, the arrows light-up ahead, then side, then behind, which obviously tells you that you've passed the threat. They can also warn you of a possible threat by picking up a solid band hit from the side before the threat even has a chance to clock you from the front or back, essentially pointing out the threat (possibly on a sidestreet or coming from the opposite direction as you both approach a 90* turn) before it IS a threat. He fails to see (or at least point out) these benefits.
5. "On Ka band it belatedly issued an alert only a few feet before the radar locked-on to our speed. It did somewhat better against lasers, weighing in with a first-place finish in field of view and third place in maximum range, within a few feet of the Escort and BEL"
I have picked up Ka band right here in the DFW area at 3.5 miles over hills. I've picked up instant-on Ka blips at about 1.5 miles. I can't imagine needing anything that picks up from a greater distance. "A few feet?" What is he talking about???
6. "If this were 1991, with X and K-band radar the primary threats, the Valentine One would have fared much better in this shootout...Still capable of putting up a good show against X and K-band radar and lasers, with its stratospheric price tag, minimal features and quirky ergonomics the V1 is an also-ran compared to modern detectors. Celebrating its tenth birthday next year, making it the oldest model on the market, the V1 is clearly showing its age."
Saying that the V1 can't at least hang in the Ka band department (although other tests have shown the V1 well ahead in this category) is absurd. He gives it credit for X and K band which are dying breeds as everyone knows. He wants people to think that the V1 is old technology just because the case has not been changed much for many years, when in fact, it's on top.
Stratospheric? $100 more than the Passport...25% more. Not to mention that that price includes a hardwiring kit, which is $30 extra on the Passport.
Minimal Features - I think I've addressed this point already
Quirky Ergonomics - again, it's a radar detector, not a car. It performs it's job and the way it looks shouldn't even be an issue, but he's reaching for points.
Old - there is a new version out (late 2001) that's a little smaller than the previous, but there are few other changes (not needed).
Scoring System
"Ergonomic/Features" - V1 loses 9 points due in part to 2 things. One is the fact that he doesn't give the V1 credit for some of it's features and doesn't list the others since it's the only one with those features. #2, one of his main points against the V1 is the size and "look" of the detector. Talking about the appearance of a radar detector is a sure sign that he's reaching to find things. Compare the size/weight of a v1.8 V1 to a Passport 8500 and you'd be surprised. The V1 looks bigger due to the square aft end.
"Selectivity" - loses 3 pts, not even sure what "selectivity" is. He doesn't explain.
"City Mode" - loses 2 pts, for what reason I'm not sure. Instead of having a city/hwy mode, the V1 has 3 levels of filtering. No filter, Logic, and Advanced Logic. I run mine in AL at all times, as do most users. "city" and "hwy" modes are pointless. In AL mode, the V1 WILL NOT filter out a true hit, so why run it in anything else??
Update: 2003 detector review shows "3-step city/highway mode" as a feature:
http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=1027 Why wasn't this included in the original test?? Hmmm...
"Sound Level" - loses 2 pts. http://www.radartest.com/images/grap...ax_aud_vol.gif
My V1 is never past 1/2 volume. Full volume is unbearable even with the radio up and windows down. All of the detectors are between 83 and 87 decibels on avg. Is that difference even worth mentioning, let alone taking off full points for? I don't think so...
Given the fact that Peterson can't get the features right, I can't see giving his radar test results any credit. The V1, Bel, and Passport will all detect similarly.
Update: The summary of the break-down of the points and how they’re distributed has been removed from radartest.com (4-7-03)
Radartest.com has been one of the biggest jokes throughout the automotive community on the internet since it went online. Mike Valentine (creator of the Valentine 1) and Craig Peterson have a "past" and Peterson has made it a point to bash the V1 whenever he gets the opportunity. Valentine always publically addresses Peterson's shots, either on the V1 site or in his magazine ads. His challenge to the public is to buy both and send back the loser within 30 days. http://www.valentineone.com/lab/detectortests.asp Notice the Car&Driver results from February, as well as the past 10 years. C&D features ads for the Passport, Bel, Uniden, and V1 in every issue.
Most car enthusiasts agree that the V1 is the best detector you can buy, but there will always be a few doubters or people that refuse to drop $400 on a detector.
I emailed Peterson not long ago regarding some of his practices. He had no defense for why some items were not included in the score of the V1. His reply was "get a life"... :D
Both even have comments about the other on their respective websites:
http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleID=10
http://www.valentineone.com/lab/V1Hater.asp
As for the actual radartest.com test, here is a breakdown of different way that Peterson goes out of his way to gig Valentine (written by hankd of a different site):
that site is full of incorrect information. Let me breakdown some of the problems from his test starting with the "Product Specs and Features" chart:
1. V1 doesn't get credit for being fully programmable when in fact, it is: http://www.valentineone.com/lab/MikesLabRpt3.asp
2. V1 gets no credit for having the capability to defeat radar bands (see #1)
3. V1 gets no credit for "Digital Signal Strength" With no description of what this means, I'll assume it means a "hit" strength indicator. The V1's strength indicator is very clear and easy to understand.
4. V1 gets no credit for "Multi-step Dim / Dark Mode" even though it does this automatically!! Peterson even says so in his summary, "A photoelectric cell automatically dims the displays but there's no provision to darken them or tailor the brightness to personal preference." So I can't manually dim it myself...why would I want to if it does it automatically?
Update: Update: 2003 detector review shows "1-step auto-dimming" as a feature:
http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=1027
How can it be 1-step? That would mean it only has ONE level of brightness...
5. The categories in his "specs" table are selected to the Passport and Bel's advantage. He doesn't have a category for the following, all of which would ONLY be featured on the V1:
*Metal case instead of plastic
*Directional arrows to point out the hits (this is THE feature that completely separates the V1 from all other detectors, yet Peterson tries to downplay the functionality and effectivity in the text of his summary)
*Front and rear radar and laser antennas
*Bogey counter
Update: 2003 detector review shows "Bogey Counter (tracks up to 9 simultaneous threats)" & "Directional Arrows (indicates direction of the threat)" as features. Why weren't they included in the original test???
6. Other categories such as: Text Display, Voice Alert, and Tutorial Mode are features that are useless and/or annoying or distracting to the user (IMO). I don't want to be reading my detector while driving down the road and I surely don't want it talking to me.
Now on to the text of his "radartest" summary":
1. "the Valentine uses a single rotary switch with concentric ring to control on/off, audio level, mute level and two "logic" modes that filter X band. We feel that's about four functions too many. So do the competition, all of whom allocate these key functions to separate switches for faster, simpler operation."
As a mechanical engineer, we're taught to SIMPLIFY by combining many functions into as few components as possible. That's exactly what the V1 does. Operation of the V1 couldn't be any simpler, yet Peterson tries to make the opposite seem true.
2. "One unique V1 feature is the Radar Locator, claimed to pinpoint the direction of incoming radar beams. Under optimal conditions--detector mounted high on the windshield with a panoramic view and with a relatively strong signal on a steady bearing--we found the directional arrows generally accurate"
Words like "claimed" "optimal" and "generally" are there to downplay this feature. The arrows work exactly as claimed even if the surroundings aren't "optimal" as Peterson says...
3. "But we quickly learned to distrust the bogey counter's truthfulness. For example, in Bucolic Campo, CO...."
The 3 threats in that story could've been caused by MANY things. It sounds like Mr Peterson wasn't running in Advanced Logic mode if he's picking up 3 junk X-band hits at once, of course, he doesn't even mention that. He just tells the story as if the hits are due to something that the V1 lacks, instead of something he lacks.
4. "In larger metropolitan areas we noticed this Chicken Little behavior even more, often being bombarded by alerts for eight or nine simultaneous threats while sitting gridlocked in traffic, a major nuisance. Truth is, radar to the side poses no threat at all and radar from behind is scarcely worthy of more attention"
Again, he's not running AL mode!!! The V1 only tracks up to 8 hits, so I'm not sure how he saw 9!! (**COUGH** LIAR **COUGH**) I've yet to see 8 hits on the bogey counter in 2.5 years of owning mine. As far as radar to the side, he's 100% correct. You can't get clocked directly from the side. However, the side arrows do a couple things for you. When you pass a threat, the arrows light-up ahead, then side, then behind, which obviously tells you that you've passed the threat. They can also warn you of a possible threat by picking up a solid band hit from the side before the threat even has a chance to clock you from the front or back, essentially pointing out the threat (possibly on a sidestreet or coming from the opposite direction as you both approach a 90* turn) before it IS a threat. He fails to see (or at least point out) these benefits.
5. "On Ka band it belatedly issued an alert only a few feet before the radar locked-on to our speed. It did somewhat better against lasers, weighing in with a first-place finish in field of view and third place in maximum range, within a few feet of the Escort and BEL"
I have picked up Ka band right here in the DFW area at 3.5 miles over hills. I've picked up instant-on Ka blips at about 1.5 miles. I can't imagine needing anything that picks up from a greater distance. "A few feet?" What is he talking about???
6. "If this were 1991, with X and K-band radar the primary threats, the Valentine One would have fared much better in this shootout...Still capable of putting up a good show against X and K-band radar and lasers, with its stratospheric price tag, minimal features and quirky ergonomics the V1 is an also-ran compared to modern detectors. Celebrating its tenth birthday next year, making it the oldest model on the market, the V1 is clearly showing its age."
Saying that the V1 can't at least hang in the Ka band department (although other tests have shown the V1 well ahead in this category) is absurd. He gives it credit for X and K band which are dying breeds as everyone knows. He wants people to think that the V1 is old technology just because the case has not been changed much for many years, when in fact, it's on top.
Stratospheric? $100 more than the Passport...25% more. Not to mention that that price includes a hardwiring kit, which is $30 extra on the Passport.
Minimal Features - I think I've addressed this point already
Quirky Ergonomics - again, it's a radar detector, not a car. It performs it's job and the way it looks shouldn't even be an issue, but he's reaching for points.
Old - there is a new version out (late 2001) that's a little smaller than the previous, but there are few other changes (not needed).
Scoring System
"Ergonomic/Features" - V1 loses 9 points due in part to 2 things. One is the fact that he doesn't give the V1 credit for some of it's features and doesn't list the others since it's the only one with those features. #2, one of his main points against the V1 is the size and "look" of the detector. Talking about the appearance of a radar detector is a sure sign that he's reaching to find things. Compare the size/weight of a v1.8 V1 to a Passport 8500 and you'd be surprised. The V1 looks bigger due to the square aft end.
"Selectivity" - loses 3 pts, not even sure what "selectivity" is. He doesn't explain.
"City Mode" - loses 2 pts, for what reason I'm not sure. Instead of having a city/hwy mode, the V1 has 3 levels of filtering. No filter, Logic, and Advanced Logic. I run mine in AL at all times, as do most users. "city" and "hwy" modes are pointless. In AL mode, the V1 WILL NOT filter out a true hit, so why run it in anything else??
Update: 2003 detector review shows "3-step city/highway mode" as a feature:
http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=1027 Why wasn't this included in the original test?? Hmmm...
"Sound Level" - loses 2 pts. http://www.radartest.com/images/grap...ax_aud_vol.gif
My V1 is never past 1/2 volume. Full volume is unbearable even with the radio up and windows down. All of the detectors are between 83 and 87 decibels on avg. Is that difference even worth mentioning, let alone taking off full points for? I don't think so...
Given the fact that Peterson can't get the features right, I can't see giving his radar test results any credit. The V1, Bel, and Passport will all detect similarly.
Update: The summary of the break-down of the points and how they’re distributed has been removed from radartest.com (4-7-03)
Radartest.com has been one of the biggest jokes throughout the automotive community on the internet since it went online. Mike Valentine (creator of the Valentine 1) and Craig Peterson have a "past" and Peterson has made it a point to bash the V1 whenever he gets the opportunity. Valentine always publically addresses Peterson's shots, either on the V1 site or in his magazine ads. His challenge to the public is to buy both and send back the loser within 30 days. http://www.valentineone.com/lab/detectortests.asp Notice the Car&Driver results from February, as well as the past 10 years. C&D features ads for the Passport, Bel, Uniden, and V1 in every issue.
Most car enthusiasts agree that the V1 is the best detector you can buy, but there will always be a few doubters or people that refuse to drop $400 on a detector.
I emailed Peterson not long ago regarding some of his practices. He had no defense for why some items were not included in the score of the V1. His reply was "get a life"... :D
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: plus 1000 posts
ok, well I'm not going to get in a arguing match over which radar detector is better. As you can tell each are excellent and both have been rated higher than the other in different tests, both partial and impartial evidently. I personally like the 8500 and I know of probably 10 other people who have the same and will stand by them. Although, I know another dozen people who have the V1 and will swear by it also. It is personal preference, take a ride and test drive both of them and then decide for yourself.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,573
Likes: 1
From: Springfield, IL, USA
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Originally posted by btl fed:
...As you can tell each are excellent and both have been rated higher than the other in different tests, both partial and impartial evidently...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed. Both the 8500 and the V1 are very good detectors, and the Bel 985 (or Bel 980) is very good for the price ($225). If he picks one of these three he will be happy.
...As you can tell each are excellent and both have been rated higher than the other in different tests, both partial and impartial evidently...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed. Both the 8500 and the V1 are very good detectors, and the Bel 985 (or Bel 980) is very good for the price ($225). If he picks one of these three he will be happy.
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